73 replies to this topic

[razenWing]

Metus regem, on 08 November 2016 - 11:24 AM, said:

With Drop ships, where is the defensive AAA.... You know the stuff that makes those Drop Ships want to land safely out of harms way to drop off the mechs....

Believe it or not, hot drop is a thing!

Though if we are stretching technicality here... in a sensible world, all the battles would be fought in space. Once space superiority is achieved, who cares about 400 battlemechs. Planetary bombard until their balls fall off, and victory. No fuss, no mess.

Bases like these are pretty much only useful for staging and storage, and are almost certainly the first things to go in a planetary warfare.

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Edit:

PS this reminds me. You know how in the New Hope, the Empire sat around in their Death Star for 20 hours orbiting around the moon before going into firing position? See, if it was up to me, I would send squadrons after squadrons of T-fighters to bombard and suppress the rebel base until my doom cannon is ready to fire. I am not going to sit on my @ss for 20 hours waiting for 20 fighters to fire at my exhaust port.

Edited by razenWing, 08 November 2016 - 11:32 AM.

[Khalcruth]

Prosperity Park, on 08 November 2016 - 11:18 AM, said:

At least we, the entire player population, can all agree that the premise of the FP invasion mode is bad and needs to be scrapped.

No, no we can't all agree on that. Some of us actually enjoy the game mode, and think that the quickplay maps and modes are extremely dull and repetitive by comparison.

[Felicitatem Parco]

WrathOfDeadguy, on 08 November 2016 - 11:25 AM, said:

The doors open when the generators go down because it is easier to program, rig, and animate a sliding door simply opening than it is to convincingly portray it getting blown to bits by a full company of 'Mechs. That's the reason, plain and simple.

Well, we also have to consider the fact that our Mech's weapons cannot harm residential structures.

Aside from that, the whole "destroy the door opening device to open the door" is as dumb as "Destroy the starter motor to turn your engine over."

[LordKnightFandragon]

Metus regem, on 08 November 2016 - 09:59 AM, said:

But in all seriousness, the bases in CW are very, very poorly thought out.

Are they even bases? THey look like they used the "BIg Bang THeory" to build the CW maps. No real thought went into them it doesnt look like. JUst build narrow corridors everywhere, 2 gates and more narrow corridors. Its like playing the Canyon Defense game on Miniclip.com....

[0bsidion]

razenWing, on 08 November 2016 - 11:27 AM, said:

Believe it or not, hot drop is a thing!

Though if we are stretching technicality here... in a sensible world, all the battles would be fought in space. Once space superiority is achieved, who cares about 400 battlemechs. Planetary bombard until their balls fall off, and victory. No fuss, no mess.

Bases like these are pretty much only useful for staging and storage, and are almost certainly the first things to go in a planetary warfare.

That approach makes sense if you merely want to wreck everything on a planet you don't care about, but most of the time you don't want to do that, because it would be incredibly expensive to rebuild an entire planet's worth of infrastructure. Let alone replace the indigenous workforce you just annihilated with one of your own. Also killing civvies is frowned upon, even in the future, as a rule.

[Metus regem]

razenWing, on 08 November 2016 - 11:27 AM, said:

Believe it or not, hot drop is a thing!

Though if we are stretching technicality here... in a sensible world, all the battles would be fought in space. Once space superiority is achieved, who cares about 400 battlemechs. Planetary bombard until their balls fall off, and victory. No fuss, no mess.

Bases like these are pretty much only useful for staging and storage, and are almost certainly the first things to go in a planetary warfare.

-------------

Edit:

PS this reminds me. You know how in the New Hope, the Empire sat around in their Death Star for 20 hours orbiting around the moon before going into firing position? See, if it was up to me, I would send squadrons after squadrons of T-fighters to bombard and suppress the rebel base until my doom cannon is ready to fire. I am not going to sit on my @ss for 20 hours waiting for 20 fighters to fire at my exhaust port.

Yea I know about Hot Dropping, I've provided air cover for US troops dropping from Blackhawks back when I flew a Gunship... Still wasn't something the Blackhawk Pilots liked to do, when AAA was on station, granted it was usually pointed in my direction....

[Tom Sawyer]

Metus regem, on 08 November 2016 - 11:37 AM, said:

Yea I know about Hot Dropping, I've provided air cover for US troops dropping from Blackhawks back when I flew a Gunship... Still wasn't something the Blackhawk Pilots liked to do, when AAA was on station, granted it was usually pointed in my direction....

As a grunt who spent time both jumping from c-130's and being a dope on a rope from Blackhawks and Chinooks I too appreciated zones where triple A and other objects where NOT in my AO

[Felicitatem Parco]

There is no AAA in Faction Play, and the dropships are more powerful than large groups of Mechs.

Edited by Prosperity Park, 08 November 2016 - 11:45 AM.

[Metus regem]

Prosperity Park, on 08 November 2016 - 11:44 AM, said:

There is no AAA in Faction Play, and the dropships are more powerful than large groups of Mechs.

As they should be... even small ones like Leopards should be something a Lance or Company does not take lightly...

[0bsidion]

Prosperity Park, on 08 November 2016 - 11:44 AM, said:

There is no AAA in Faction Play, and the dropships are more powerful than large groups of Mechs.

What about that giant double barrel gauss rifle aimed at the sky in the middle of the base? Those turrets can probably aim up too.

[Lyoto Machida]

Khalcruth, on 08 November 2016 - 11:30 AM, said:

No, no we can't all agree on that. Some of us actually enjoy the game mode, and think that the quickplay maps and modes are extremely dull and repetitive by comparison.

Umm...based on actual CW queue numbers, very few players enjoy that mode as is.

[Tier5 Kerensky]

As for the theorethical question in OP:s initial post, it's quite simple.

The door is aparently a door. That is, a device that's meant to be opened and closed, at will. Which is quite unlike a wall, which is meant to just stay where it is.

Since they made it one that slides to the side, it means it slides with very small friction. If you'd make a huge heavy door that needs a lot of force to be slided open, you'd wear out the door and it's base very quickly. Friction causes wear.

So considering 100 ton "mechs" are powered by fairly small fusion reactors, and that year is about 3051, then the fiction is so small, that a tiny ant could push it open. In essence you can consider it frictionless. We already have about that on some trains. And thus it's weight is irrelevant.

So considering it's frictionless, how does it stay closed when it's operator wants it to stay closed, so that the local ants don't accidentally open it all the time by leaning onto it? We could assume plenty of valid mechanisms for that, for example it's being kept in place by a electromagnetic forcefield.So it has a magnetic lock, not mechanical one. Which stops existing when the generator is blown up.


On a related note, why do elevators stop moving when power is cut from them? It's a safety feature. Most elevators have a negative weight when loaded lighly, due to counter weights having more weight than the elevator and typical load. Power is mostly used to limit the speed at which elevator raises, and to lower the elevator back down.


And why would anyone make a base that's so well barricaded, that a mech can't pass relatively easily? Since mechs have energy weapons and they aparently never run out of juice, they could gradually drill through any metal made walls and doors anyway? But, by having a mechanism in which the door can be opened easily by mechs, by blowing up the aparently cheaper generator, it saves the expense of new door.

Any non-mech invader would face mech defences. So the corridors and doors are effectively dragon theeth for mechs, with just few more moving parts.


A much less reasonable and illogical are mech weights. Mechs have been made to operate on all conditions on all planets and alike. Ok...

An IS-3 tank weights about 50 metric tons(tonnes) I don't know how much land space it's tracks cover, but it's quite a lot. Quite a lot more than a 50 tonne lorry.

So imagine a mech that weights 100 tonnes, which is only twice as much. And imagine it walking on two feets. Not just standing but walking, even 150 km/h. Ok not 100 tonne mechs. It's feet would break through just about anything. There's nothing solid enough to survive such a pressure for long.

And how do you effectively field a weapon platform that can mainly move on manmade ground? It would be quite an restriction. I don't think when they were designing battletech they would think details like that.

[Felicitatem Parco]

I am surprised to see how many people are legitimately explaining how a highly advanced technological society would use powerful electrical generators that exist for the sole purpose of creating the electricity needed to perpetually hold massive counterweights off the ground specifically so that your base doors will open if you are under attack by invading ground forces.

Plz

Stahp.

[Lyoto Machida]

Prosperity Park, on 08 November 2016 - 02:48 PM, said:

I am surprised to see how many people are legitimately explaining how a highly advanced technological society would use powerful electrical generators that exist for the sole purpose of creating the electricity needed to perpetually hold massive counterweights off the ground specifically so that your base doors will open if you are under attack by invading ground forces.

Plz

Stahp.

Well, it's in game so no need to explain why, as its a moot point, no? The how question is at least interesting.

[VonBruinwald]

razenWing, on 08 November 2016 - 11:27 AM, said:

Though if we are stretching technicality here... in a sensible world, all the battles would be fought in space. Once space superiority is achieved, who cares about 400 battlemechs. Planetary bombard until their balls fall off, and victory. No fuss, no mess.

This is all covered by the Ares Conventions and subsequent "Honors of War".

But if planetary bombardment is what you're after perhaps you need one of these http://www.sarna.net...inyes_(WarShip).

[Lazor Sharp]

I always thought and have posted in the features thread, that Mech's with hands had to unlock, then open the Gates...... Vs blowing up the Gennys to open the gate..... . Use mech hands, to turn off the Big Guns, and the turrets too..... Then use Scouting mode to provide keys / key codes or subtract keys / key codes that the attackers can use during the match to unlock the various Gates, then open them with their hand, and other features.... Commander would have to have mechs with hands in the load outs, to make it work. Why would you Blow up a Genny that is extremely expensive, and very hard to repair...... Give us some immersion......

Other wise, I want to own the Galactic Generator Manufacturer, Install, Service and Repair Company....GGMISRC....

Edited by Lazor Sharp, 08 November 2016 - 03:35 PM.

[WrathOfDeadguy]

razenWing, on 08 November 2016 - 11:27 AM, said:

Though if we are stretching technicality here... in a sensible world, all the battles would be fought in space. Once space superiority is achieved, who cares about 400 battlemechs. Planetary bombard until their balls fall off, and victory. No fuss, no mess.

0bsidion, on 08 November 2016 - 11:35 AM, said:

That approach makes sense if you merely want to wreck everything on a planet you don't care about, but most of the time you don't want to do that, because it would be incredibly expensive to rebuild an entire planet's worth of infrastructure. Let alone replace the indigenous workforce you just annihilated with one of your own. Also killing civvies is frowned upon, even in the future, as a rule.

That's the reason why the Inner Sphere lost so much advanced technology, including the ability to build new FTL Jumpships. For the first two Succession Wars, the great houses waged total war... until they had to agree upon certain limitations on weapons and acceptable targets in order to avoid a total loss of interstellar civilization. They had run out of FTL Warships, and all of the shipyards had been obliterated so even civilian Jumpships became rare and precious. R&D facilities were nuked and nuked again until the very knowledge of how to build Jump drives was lost. Consequently, the Clans had absolute space superiority when they invaded- the entire IS initially had nothing bigger than a Dropship to fight space battles with. The Clans only slowed down when faced with land objectives that they had to capture rather than destroy (since their ultimate objective was to conquer and unify the Inner Sphere rather than just to defeat it).

So yes, it is much easier to win if you just bombard from orbit... but there are severe consequences for civilization once you decide that's acceptable. The IS went through several hundred years where many planets barely even had electricity anymore precisely because someone at some point during the first few centuries of war decided to just bombard their enemy from orbit after smashing up Warships in a big space battle. There's a good reason why land forces decide conflicts in the 31st century.

[Novakaine]

Prosperity Park, on 08 November 2016 - 09:50 AM, said:

I am just wondering... how do you open a 2000 ton blast door if the generator that powers the door is destroyed?

Spoiler

I am somewhat serious here, as the game's future depends on Faction Play and the current faction play game mode is based entirely upon the idea that blowing up the generator that powers a door's mechanisms will cause the door to spontaneously open... despite having no power.

Man don't you know anything.
When you destroy the generator it breaks the big chain and the doors swing open.
Like in the final matrix movie.
Big chains and generators have been a thing since medieval times

[Davegt27]

ask the USAF

we hit the top with 2000lb bomb and it knocks the doors right off

[rolly]

Prosperity Park, on 08 November 2016 - 10:15 AM, said:

So, the doors are designed specifically to allow invading forces to enter the base via destroying the generators. It's funny, because I would design my base doors to stay SHUT if there is an invading army at the gates.

Maybe someobe should point this out to our balance overlords who are responsible for making the features of the game mesh together.... I am surprised that nobody at PGI had thought about this notion... that doors are better at keeping armies out if they stay shut.


*mutters to self*


I hope they have an announcement at MechCon about this forehead -slappingly dumb design thatbhas not yet been addressed for faaaar too long.

Oh jebus. I'd hate to see how the doors work at PGI...

It just made me think of this: