71 replies to this topic

[Ziogualty]

I don't imagine how PvE should be in a game like MWO.
It is far easier to think how PGI can introduce PvE elements in MWO.
The answer is: start with something very easy. Close to League Of Legends minions: a couple of light tanks per side, nothing too hard to program.
Just to start with.

And multiple objective could help a lot too.
I'm fairly impressed about Armored Warfare and how they design Global Operations: it can work amazingly bot in PvE or PvP.
Ai enemy mechs? could be good, but it would require a ton of work and skill...how probable it is that PGI could handle this?

[Vellron2005]

Attank, on 10 November 2016 - 03:31 AM, said:

I don't imagine how PvE should be in a game like MWO.
It is far easier to think how PGI can introduce PvE elements in MWO.
The answer is: start with something very easy. Close to League Of Legends minions: a couple of light tanks per side, nothing too hard to program.
Just to start with.

And multiple objective could help a lot too.
I'm fairly impressed about Armored Warfare and how they design Global Operations: it can work amazingly bot in PvE or PvP.
Ai enemy mechs? could be good, but it would require a ton of work and skill...how probable it is that PGI could handle this?

A.I. Mechs appared in games 20 years ago.. I don't think a working A.I. mech is rocket science. If PGI wanted to do it, they could.They sort-of already did. Half way at least.. in the Academy.

The A.I. doesn't have to be able to win a chess game against Kasparov. Its enough that mechs have their stations and hold their ground, shoot their weapons and use what they have.

It's not brain surgery. It's basic coding from 20 years ago..

[Ziogualty]

Vellron2005, on 10 November 2016 - 03:41 AM, said:

A.I. Mechs appared in games 20 years ago.. I don't think a working A.I. mech is rocket science. If PGI wanted to do it, they could.They sort-of already did. Half way at least.. in the Academy.

The A.I. doesn't have to be able to win a chess game against Kasparov. Its enough that mechs have their stations and hold their ground, shoot their weapons and use what they have.

It's not brain surgery. It's basic coding from 20 years ago..

I would like it will be so easy.
Sadly it is not. Lot of games from AAA devs were ruined by bad AI, and i speak mostly of single player (i imagine the rage will grow exponential in a game with multiplayer were you have to grind exp if Ai works bad).
More, we speak about PGI and MWO.
Maps is not brain surgery...War Thunder has lot of maps, we just a buch.
FW is not rocket science...look at Heroes and General, or Planetside2, WoT, and many others. Yet there is still tons of work to do in MWO.
We still miss proper bases, tanks, planes, multiple objectives. MW:LL has all of this with Crysis1 engine, yet is very hard to implement in MWO.
Meanwhile, they have to fix Ghost Heat, destructible environment, mech collision, game modes, saving loadouts in the Mechbay, targeting system, Mech hitboxes...

And don't forget PGI have to work daily on balance too.

They will need a lot of time and resources to even barely try something AI in the test server.
Imagine i play PvE, an AI CTF walking on Mining Collective have me in his crosshairs: i got damage and fight back.
Imagine i play PvE, an AI CTF stuck himself in an invisible tree trunk in Forest Colony and went dumb: supereasy kill.

You can bet everything you own that the day after you will have the forum flooded by a tons of (legit) complains:
"Hey, why my friend got a ton of exp and credits killing stuck stupid mechs, while when i play they hit me like Kerensky true son?"
Not counting people ready to exploit every AI flaws to their advantage.

In the end...
Yes is doable.
Yes is not rocket science.
But still you have to approach AI implementation with super care, and very very slowly, testing it a lot and without drawing resources from other aspects of the game.

Armored Warfare is a great game, praised for his PVE implementation. Yet, bad and too semplicistic AI made people bored too fast, and they have to rewrite all AI behaviour in order to fix the issue and bring some interest back again. And tanks will behave very close to Mechs.

Edited by Attank, 10 November 2016 - 04:25 AM.

[ice trey]

How best to do PVE?

Simple. Single player campaign.
Some interesting missions that you don't have to be worried about every possible firing angle on the map, some derpy AI enemies and teammates, a salvage system, maybe the appearance of free traders every now and again to sell you their wares... missions with a purpose in the story and some nice live-action cut-scenes of some commander barking orders at you to tie it all together.

Give me what Mechwarrior 4 gave me. Or what Mechwarrior 3 gave me, or what mechwarrior 2 gave me... Hell, even what Mechwarrior 1 gave me is currently more compelling than this hamster wheel.

[Johnny Z]

DiabetesOverlord Wilford Brimley, on 09 November 2016 - 12:10 AM, said:

You're half right. Metal Gear did allow you to make your character and GTA 5 online does too. I subject matter is preference. As for doing single players correctly they were engaging and done well (if you like the subject matter)

Yes I want pilot creation and customization
I want to own my own planet, cruiser, drop ship, and customizable mech hangers in each.
Yes I want to story lines and experiences to go through. DLC lore expansions where you're just a mech pilot watching history unfold in the different timelines.
Ultimately I'd want an open world endgame like GTA 5 that allows private rooms, or even kinda destiny like but with obviously more content
And obviously a new engine since cryengine has all of its programmers working for Chris Roberts.

Only thing missing in Titanfall was you wished it was the BR universe;)

I wanted to like this but then I seen the private rooms part. For online games pro servers are the best.

[Johnny Z]

Lily from animove, on 09 November 2016 - 04:50 AM, said:

No emchwarrior ever had a proper AI, and I doubt one cna make a proper entertaining AI for MWO, all the game will turn into is a few people in possible coop sztomping over hordes of AI mechs a la MW3 wave mode. And in MWO maps are even a lOT more complex than MW3's mostly open maps, so AI would even fail more or fial to handle the map complexity.




you won't get open world engame in MWO ever the concept of speed and stuff simply doesn't works for such setups. And with the "demand" of people in graphics there won't be proper maps in the size of MW:LL as this is the minimum of what would be needed to exist.

also character creation of gta 5 is horrible and broing. Bad at all tbh. Just a few facesliders n some preset mix faces with horrible clothings to choose.

in fact if MWO ever your make a socialising feature it would have to be based around the mech hangar otherwise more complex character design is simply a waste of effort as you never see more of your pilot than parts of ot's body in your cockpit.

but to continue MWO, PGI does need other concepts to generate money. Because once they are done with all the available mechs, and the core fanbase has bought them the only thing they do have left is:

p2w features (which kills most games quickly for a short high profit)
customisation of mechs and pilots (custom geometry was something they did spoke about)
non mech related content, such as socialsiing features.
PvE content to sell compains and stuff.

Keeping the game alive is the most important part, as humans grow up and start gaming and therefore you have regrowing gamers you can sell all your previously done content. But this really requires keping old gamers who will just see less new content while dragging new players to the game.

unfortunately we don't have big boobed half naked elfs and winged girls to run around in our Lore so it's harder to lure in people with the usual MMO advertisements.

They can add boss npc mechs taunting the player over comms that are super tough. Got to use your imagination on how great it could be.

The part about elves would be great. +1 for elves in space. I like cool stuff what can I say, if its a great capital star ship or space elves. Aerospace fighters could be just awesome.

Just seen a great movie with an Aeropsace ship, a must see, way better than I expected.

Edited by Johnny Z, 10 November 2016 - 07:32 AM.

[MW Waldorf Statler]

Vellron2005, on 10 November 2016 - 03:41 AM, said:

A.I. Mechs appared in games 20 years ago.. I don't think a working A.I. mech is rocket science. If PGI wanted to do it, they could.They sort-of already did. Half way at least.. in the Academy.

The A.I. doesn't have to be able to win a chess game against Kasparov. Its enough that mechs have their stations and hold their ground, shoot their weapons and use what they have.

It's not brain surgery. It's basic coding from 20 years ago..

Problem is the wayfinding of the Mechs ...thats a little more problematic as in the titles before (more Cover...Assets...smaller ways between ...Climb system)

Quote

We still miss proper bases, tanks, planes, multiple objectives. MW:LL has all of this with Crysis1 engine, yet is very hard to implement in MWO.

MWO use the same engine , all the mWLL Assets build by the mWLL team, nothing came with the Base Engine...MWO has the same Base elements like MWLL in the CE3

Edited by Old MW4 Ranger, 10 November 2016 - 07:48 AM.

[MW Waldorf Statler]

Johnny Z, on 10 November 2016 - 07:27 AM, said:

They can add boss npc mechs taunting the player over comms that are super tough. Got to use your imagination on how great it could be.

The part about elves would be great. +1 for elves in space. I like cool stuff what can I say, if its a great capital star ship or space elves. Aerospace fighters could be just awesome.

Just seen a great movie with an Aeropsace ship, a must see, way better than I expected.

In Battletech it gives no Hight tech Aliencultures, is only a Human vs Human war Universe...all the Capital ships you can seeing in Sarna .net ...no Super Spaceships, Large Carriers like other universe

Edited by Old MW4 Ranger, 10 November 2016 - 07:51 AM.

[Johnny Z]

Old MW4 Ranger, on 10 November 2016 - 07:50 AM, said:

In Battletech it gives no Hight tech Aliencultures, is only a Human vs Human war Universe

Ya so far. Every title evolves and adds new things. Expecting Battletech not to is kind of unfair maybe. Not to mention aliens are a reality in all probability, some where out there, even if they have not been to Terra or what ever. Kind of hard to not have them ever in a space sci-fi.

But don't panic maybe no aliens in Battletech soon. The original Star Wars didn't have mechs.

Edited by Johnny Z, 10 November 2016 - 08:15 AM.

[Almond Brown]

PvE LOL! It will be hilarious when all the Salty Islanders, finally do manage to kill off MWO and then act all surprised that it never got to PvE... LOL! PvE.

That is just Priceless.

[TheArisen]

Almond Brown, on 10 November 2016 - 09:21 AM, said:

PvE LOL! It will be hilarious when all the Salty Islanders, finally do manage to kill off MWO and then act all surprised that it never got to PvE... LOL! PvE.

That is just Priceless.

The sodium content of this thread has actually been pretty low. PvP is fun but some of us enjoy a stories and would like to explore a bit more of the universe.

I wasn't criticizing Pgi just objectively analyzing.

[TheArisen]

For anyone interested I made a poll asking if people want Solaris or PvE.
http://mwomercs.com/...r-solaris-mode/

[Anjian]

A good model for studying how to do coop PvE right would be Armored Warfare. When I play the PvE missions there, I felt like wow, if we replace the tanks with mechs and change the factions to the appropriate ones, this can be a Battletech game.

[Peter2k]

Johnny Z, on 10 November 2016 - 07:27 AM, said:

Just seen a great movie with an Aeropsace ship, a must see, way better than I expected.

Interstellar was a good movie
The Martian is good as well
I liked that they didn't water down the science and survival

Read good review about Arrival as well



Hectapod communication at work

[MW Waldorf Statler]

Johnny Z, on 10 November 2016 - 07:52 AM, said:

Ya so far. Every title evolves and adds new things. Expecting Battletech not to is kind of unfair maybe. Not to mention aliens are a reality in all probability, some where out there, even if they have not been to Terra or what ever. Kind of hard to not have them ever in a space sci-fi.

But don't panic maybe no aliens in Battletech soon. The original Star Wars didn't have mechs.

;-)
No Alien Nations whas one of the Differents, to make Batteltech a Little "more realistic like" and make it different from all the Other SF universe, with Hight Alien Cultures like Humans by each Corner of the Galaxy

Quote

PvE LOL! It will be hilarious when all the Salty Islanders, finally do manage to kill off MWO and then act all surprised that it never got to PvE... LOL! PvE.

That is just Priceless.

not ride a dead Horse ...not the islanders kill MWO ...The many fatal Fails from the Dev.Managing kills MWO time by time ,since 4 Years

Edited by Old MW4 Ranger, 12 November 2016 - 06:00 AM.

[Johnny Z]

Old MW4 Ranger, on 12 November 2016 - 05:57 AM, said:

;-)
No Alien Nations whas one of the Differents, to make Batteltech a Little "more realistic like" and make it different from all the Other SF universe, with Hight Alien Cultures like Humans by each Corner of the Galaxy



not ride a dead Horse ...not the islanders kill MWO ...The many fatal Fails from the Dev.Managing kills MWO time by time ,since 4 Years

Its a good point. But aliens in space really isn't unrealistic. But good point. Maybe those aliens are star fish like the screen shot the guy showed above but they are still aliens.

Edited by Johnny Z, 12 November 2016 - 06:45 AM.

[XxXAbsolutZeroXxX]

PvE in this game reminds me of the original star wars series.

George Lucas originally wanted Mos Eisley to be a bustling spaceport and hub of intergalactic trade.

Unfortunately, he didn't have the resources and Mos Eisley looked like space hobo town.

Neither quickplay nor faction warfare feels like a planetary invasion. Would like to see more combat and civilian units hustling and bustling all over the map at random. That's the 1st stage PvE I would like to see implemented. NPC units of different types(hovercraft, mechs, aerotech, helicopters, support vehicles, tanks, turrets) controlled by primitive AI.

.

[LordKnightFandragon]

Anjian, on 12 November 2016 - 05:31 AM, said:

A good model for studying how to do coop PvE right would be Armored Warfare. When I play the PvE missions there, I felt like wow, if we replace the tanks with mechs and change the factions to the appropriate ones, this can be a Battletech game.

Actually a good model for PVE would be Mechcommander, Starcraft, or basically any of the older PVE based games. AW is pretty much just a contest to see which player on the team can rack up the most damage the fastest in the shortest time possible. Its not a really good "PVE" mode.....it actually kinda sucks now....at this point.

[Lazor Sharp]

OK Folks, I will say it again.... If PGI and HBS share assets, like mech art for NPC's art- Tanks, aerospace, etc..., map assets, AI, voice actors, etc, etc, etc... than both Games can benefit at a lower cost...

Then PGI needs to go ahead and make the MW5 Single Player game that never got funded..... To fund this, they need to make Kick Starter Packs of 3-6 Campaign Mission's, Maps with a 4 man coop, much like what HBS is doing, but a few at a time, and market them in the same way that they make and market Mech Packs, as Pay to Play Early, and releasing the missions one a month as Free to Play, 3 to 6 month's later........

This gives them a alternate Income Stream, beyond the limited number of Mech's that remain in the Lore....

Single Player should play off line, and 4 man Coop should play on the starting player game as a server, with the other 3 as clients. This way PGI does not have to Host all these games on their servers..... that would take more $$$$$$

After the first run through a mission, all currently owned MWO Mechs/ Assets, $$, can be used to play subsequent play through's.

A environment like this would let the Uber Casual's play with their Friends, without getting Stomped in The PvP ques,
Would provide a place for New Players to learn the in's and outs of the game, Lore, etc... in a less demanding place than PvP

Then in Coop, with a Vet training them in TEAM WORK, to get them ready to play PvP...... Will Create a Much Better New Player Experience, and Retention factor, than what we have now........ and New Players Ready for PvP that have not been stomped on repeatedly till they gave up before they even got to know the Lore, etc....

Now, is PGI up to this vision of where this game could go..... I don't know......

Edited by Lazor Sharp, 12 November 2016 - 01:26 PM.

[TheArisen]

Lazor Sharp, on 12 November 2016 - 01:21 PM, said:

OK Folks, I will say it again.... If PGI and HBS share assets, like mech art for NPC's art- Tanks, aerospace, etc..., map assets, AI, voice actors, etc, etc, etc... than both Games can benefit at a lower cost...

Then PGI needs to go ahead and make the MW5 Single Player game that never got funded..... To fund this, they need to make Kick Starter Packs of 3-6 Campaign Mission's, Maps with a 4 man coop, much like what HBS is doing, but a few at a time, and market them in the same way that they make and market Mech Packs, as Pay to Play Early, and releasing the missions one a month as Free to Play, 3 to 6 month's later........

This gives them a alternate Income Stream, beyond the limited number of Mech's that remain in the Lore....

Single Player should play off line, and 4 man Coop should play on the starting player game as a server, with the other 3 as clients. This way PGI does not have to Host all these games on their servers..... that would take more $$$$$$

After the first run through a mission, all currently owned MWO Mechs/ Assets, $$, can be used to play subsequent play through's.

A environment like this would let the Uber Casual's play with their Friends, without getting Stomped in The PvP ques,
Would provide a place for New Players to learn the in's and outs of the game, Lore, etc... in a less demanding place than PvP

Then in Coop, with a Vet training them in TEAM WORK, to get them ready to play PvP...... Will Create a Much Better New Player Experience, and Retention factor, than what we have now........ and New Players Ready for PvP that have not been stomped on repeatedly till they gave up before they even got to know the Lore, etc....

Now, is PGI up to this vision of where this game could go..... I don't know......

I'm not sure it'd be fair for Pgi to release PvE for free due to it being quite an expensive thing to make.

I do agree if HBS & Pgi share assets then it'd be easier but because HBS's game is set in 3025 that'd leave out several mechs from MWO.

I do agree with having co-op using the original or group leader to host so Pgi doesn't need to use PvP servers.

Instead of campaign packs it might be better to do an episode or per mission style pve. The missions are standalone or there could be a series but you buy each mission individually.