53 replies to this topic

[A Shoddy Rental Mech]

I find for I.S. mechs it's

1.5m double heat sinks
6 mil for 2 weapons modules
2 mil for advanced zoom
3-6 mil for mech/module slot

12.5mil- 15.5 mil plus the cost of the mech itself.

good thing they're cheap to start with

[RestosIII]

The Nerf Bat, on 10 November 2016 - 01:37 AM, said:

I find for I.S. mechs it's

1.5m double heat sinks
6 mil for 2 weapons modules
2 mil for advanced zoom
3-6 mil for mech/module slot

12.5mil- 15.5 mil plus the cost of the mech itself.

good thing they're cheap to start with

Pffffft. Modules. You don't need those. Just 1 advanced zoom module that you trade between all your mechs, like I do.

[DrxAbstract]

Teer Kerensky, on 10 November 2016 - 01:28 AM, said:

He is complaining about the need to spend so much C-Bills after buying some mechs. I think it's a valid point. It creates direct frustration from the purchase.

It's an invalid and unrealistic expectation; Not everyone wants to have the same Engine (Or Engine type), Armor(Ferro)/Internal Structure(Endo) type, Weapons or even Artemis... The only valid point of contention might be not having Double Heat Sinks as standard equipment. Unless PGI offers a payment-screen dropdown menu that lets you customize every exact piece of equipment that every Mech you buy comes with (Which is just begging to be abused by people loading up cash purchases with high re-sale value equipment) there's nothing to be done. Even if they came completely empty, all with Double Heat Sinks enabled, you'd still have some schmuck whining they didn't come fully stocked, ready to fight... Obviously not having to grind C-Bills to buy those Mechs wasnt enough of a time-saving convenience, you wanted the full-on, zero-effort-made purchase... Right? About what it boils down to: "I want, I want, I want." People expecting PGI to hand over the keys to the company because they spent a few bucks... ggclose.

Go find something legitimate to complain about... Like the absurdly anemic C-Bill generation and the over-arching inadequacies of the in-game economy.

Edited by DrxAbstract, 10 November 2016 - 02:15 AM.

[Bombast]

RestosIII, on 10 November 2016 - 01:31 AM, said:

There's still the hilarious amount of grinding for crew skills though.

I'm not saying there isn't a grind, just that the 'Gold' tanks come as is. No in game currency required.

As for the grinding itself... at least Wargaming made grinding part of the balancing, with tiers separating older/newer tech, so that where ever you are in the grinding process determines who you fight. The inability to do that in Mechwarrior causes a lot of the problems we see in the game, MM in particular. PSR is a poor substitute for tiers.

[Dogstar]

To be fair to the OP it is a total frickin pain grinding out the cash to fit DHS, Endo, Ferro, and XL Engines on the mechs that need it and there are plenty of mechs that need them in every single IS pack. (£$%^ the clans).

It would really help if PGI added better cash rewards for events, regular sales on mech components, or provided a discount for either new players, premium players, lower tier players, or loyal players. Anything to make the grind bit easier.

Or they could add more XL engines and upgrades to the supply packs that drop in game.

[Lyoto Machida]

The Nerf Bat, on 10 November 2016 - 01:37 AM, said:

I find for I.S. mechs it's

1.5m double heat sinks
6 mil for 2 weapons modules
2 mil for advanced zoom
3-6 mil for mech/module slot

12.5mil- 15.5 mil plus the cost of the mech itself.

good thing they're cheap to start with

Of all the modules to list...you pick advanced zoom???

Seismic and radar dep come before that, among other ones.

[invernomuto]

DrxAbstract, on 10 November 2016 - 01:45 AM, said:

Not everyone wants to have the same Engine (Or Engine type), Armor(Ferro)/Internal Structure(Endo) type, Weapons or even Artemis... The only valid point of contention might be not having Double Heat Sinks as standard equipment.

Agreed. I have lot of IS mechs with STD engines. XL Engine, for IS mechs, it's not always an "upgrade".
I admit that I usually pay for Endo Steel Structure conversion because the weight reduction it's worth the cost of critical spaces and C-Bills.
Right now the only true "upgrade" for IS mechs are Double Heat Sinks, because they are always mandatory over SHS. I hope that, in the future, SHS could find a niche.

[Peter2k]

Appogee, on 10 November 2016 - 12:36 AM, said:

The need to upgrade structure and sinks may be a reason that Mech Pack purchases come with an added 6.5M CBills...?

Well they don't

Only as pre order bonus

OP got a mech delivered now, so there's no cbill bonus
Of course I'm assuming here, like he bought a heavier IS chassis either though MC or in the shop as a pack
But not a preorder from before

Rismonite, on 09 November 2016 - 11:45 PM, said:

When your buisness needs "Be sure to read the fine print" as a reputation.

I want things to succeed, lets talk about what drives new people away.

Clan mechs (omnis) are to my mind better for newer players

They get the advanced tech, clan xl engines, and if it's an omni mech you can customise a mech like you want
On is side you'd have to buy a complete different variant instead of buying just a pod

Edited by Peter2k, 10 November 2016 - 03:31 AM.

[Dogstar]

>Clan mechs (omnis) are to my mind better for newer players
Agreed but I think that that's a bad thing for the game overall because far too many players assume all mechs are as good as clan mechs and don't have any appreciation for the IS classics.

Plus there are so many players of the previous MechWarrior games that there's very little support for the way things played out on the tabletop. So we end u with two types player:

Players who first played a MechWarrior game:

• Younger
  
• Prefer faster 'CoD style' play
  
• Prefer pin point damage
  
• Only want clan mechs
  
• Hate 3rd person view
  
• In the majority

Players who first played tabletop:

• Crusty old farts
  
• Prefer slower paced play
  
• Prefer IS mechs
  
• Think the game lacks many good TT features like heat scale
  
• Think lore is important
  
• Think all clan mechs are ugly and OP

I think this imbalance readil shows itself on the forums and I also think it leads to several problems with the game, one of hose being the OPs problem.

[Bandilly]

How about a simple solution? Since all mech packs are $20 we balance them all closer to the same cbill value. Smaller packs could have built in cbills and modules that help close the cbill gap. They don't have to all add up the same, but if lighter/cheaper mechs even got a small % of the difference vs an assault pack then they wouldn't be seen as such a bad value for the $.

Edited by Bandilly, 10 November 2016 - 05:14 AM.

[Sjorpha]

Bandilly, on 10 November 2016 - 05:13 AM, said:

How about a simple solution? Since all mech packs are $20 we balance them all closer to the same cbill value. Smaller packs could have built in cbills and modules that help close the cbill gap. They don't have to all add up the same, but if lighter/cheaper mechs even got a small % of the difference vs an assault pack then they wouldn't be seen as such a bad value for the $.

This is a good idea.

But I think the deeper issue is that the game has several pieces of equipment in it that isn't worth using at all, the need to tweak and improve your mechs isn't a problem in my view, but the fact that single heatsinks and standard structure aren't competitively balanced to sometimes be the optimal choice is a huge problem. A multiplayer game should not have strict upgrades in it, only different choices with pros and cons to them.

[Potatomasher69]

I was a bit needlessly angry last night my apologies for my language (yay filters?). For the most part, I looked over my purchase relatively well and understood that I would have to equip the mechs. People pay money because they love the game and at some point you really just need some cash for some of the cool stuff, and also because not all of us can play for days to get a collection of mechs to unlock and equip to a standard that doesn't feel bad in gameplay and also not get bored to tears playing the same mech for hours on end. With a clear head hear are a few things that contribute to my frustrations hopefully made more clear;

-I was given premium time in this pack, as opposed to cash. The model for premium time bothers me, why can it not be minute for minute play time only? Or based on numbers of games like the cadet bonus was? (And probably more expensive). It does not solve my adult-schedule-time-crunch problem because I feel pressured to play all day to take advantage of it. Though, admittedly, every pack has a special variant with a chassis bonus, which helps and is suggestive that perhaps we are making C-Bills too slowly.

-It is debatable to some degree but I think I can safely say, "on IS chassis Endo-Steel and Double Heat sinks are required upgrades". The cost here is bad enough, but SHS and Standard structure just are not a choice. There also is not enough reward to picking a slower engine to load up in firepower or cooling, everytime I've done something like that it just starts getting trolled by any decent light pilot. So perhaps, underlying my initial tears, a "Please buff SHS and Standard Structure." gripe is included.

[TLBFestus]

Cathy, on 10 November 2016 - 12:49 AM, said:

Oh look another thread full of people that stopped playing, or worse people that still do, telling others to not support the game.

Where is this coming from? From what I'm reading, even those of us with "issues" with PGI are telling the guy, it's his fault.

[Baulven]

Honestly I would be for giving every IS pack a chill bonus [they would get the pre-order bonus on top of that] when first purchased to alleviate some grind. The reason it appears omnis are better is they are forced to lay for that all up front. Clan battlemech have the same issues to deal with for buying equipment since they are not locked in and often come substandard.

[Bombast]

Rismonite, on 10 November 2016 - 08:37 AM, said:

-I was given premium time in this pack, as opposed to cash. The model for premium time bothers me, why can it not be minute for minute play time only? Or based on numbers of games like the cadet bonus was? (And probably more expensive). It does not solve my adult-schedule-time-crunch problem because I feel pressured to play all day to take advantage of it. Though, admittedly, every pack has a special variant with a chassis bonus, which helps and is suggestive that perhaps we are making C-Bills too slowly.

That's an industry standard. If you want to get into a fight over it, that's something you need to take up with pretty much every subscription based video game ever, not PGI.

I'll save you the time though - Your suggestions (Or really all suggestions) are just as bad. If you do it by games, then you feel cheated every time someone lucks out and one or two shots you. If you do it by play time, suddenly you're feeling rushed to finish every game as fast as possible, doubly so if mechlab time is counted. There's no good solution.

Quote

-It is debatable to some degree but I think I can safely say, "on IS chassis Endo-Steel and Double Heat sinks are required upgrades". The cost here is bad enough, but SHS and Standard structure just are not a choice. There also is not enough reward to picking a slower engine to load up in firepower or cooling, everytime I've done something like that it just starts getting trolled by any decent light pilot. So perhaps, underlying my initial tears, a "Please buff SHS and Standard Structure." gripe is included.

There's no debate - It's wrong. Is Endo-steel usually a 'mandatory' upgrade? Yes. All the time? Not even close.

Heat sinks... well, yah. With the exception of a few Banshee builds which I'm not even sure still work, double heat sinks are mandatory.

But DHS is what, 250,000 C-Bills? That's one decent game or two bad ones. I appreciate why everyone want's to take the grind out of the game, but guess what - That's what F2P is. If you don't like it, then you are probably never going to like this game.

EDIT: Ok, maybe Dual Heat Sinks are a bit pricey.

Edited by Bombast, 10 November 2016 - 09:38 AM.

[Lyoto Machida]

Bombast, on 10 November 2016 - 09:29 AM, said:

That's an industry standard. If you want to get into a fight over it, that's something you need to take up with pretty much every subscription based video game ever, not PGI.

I'll save you the time though - Your suggestions (Or really all suggestions) are just as bad. If you do it by games, then you feel cheated every time someone lucks out and one or two shots you. If you do it by play time, suddenly you're feeling rushed to finish every game as fast as possible, doubly so if mechlab time is counted. There's no good solution.



There's no debate - It's wrong. Is Endo-steel usually a 'mandatory' upgrade? Yes. All the time? Not even close.

Heat sinks... well, yah. With the exception of a few Banshee builds which I'm not even sure still work, double heat sinks are mandatory.

But DHS is what, 250,000 C-Bills? That's one decent game or two bad ones. I appreciate why everyone want's to take the grind out of the game, but guess what - That's what F2P is. If you don't like it, then you are probably never going to like this game.

Umm...isn't DHS 1.5M c-bills?

[Bombast]

Lyoto Machida, on 10 November 2016 - 09:33 AM, said:

Umm...isn't DHS 1.5M c-bills?

...Hmm, now that you mention it... am I thinking of Ferro?

Ok, got me there. Maybe the cost of Dual Heat Sinks could use a bit of a re-balance.

[Potatomasher69]

I see your point about how getting one shot in a game makes you feel just as cheated in per game premium time, perhaps there is really no good fix for that.

Part of me wishes you could buy the DHS and Endo -once- on a chassis just like an inventory item and be able to swap it back and forth. I guess we are role playing installation costs : \

[Bandilly]

Rismonite, on 10 November 2016 - 08:37 AM, said:

-It is debatable to some degree but I think I can safely say, "on IS chassis Endo-Steel and Double Heat sinks are required upgrades".

Both are critical slot intensive and might not fit on every build. They are in particular counter to each other on some builds, i.e. you can have one or the other but not both.

A low heat autocannon build can usually fit ES, but it may prefer to take FF next to save tonnage and not have enough room left for DHS.

A high heat laser build may need to pile on the heat sinks and not have room left for ES.


I agree with the others that say they need to be sold as lore. They just need to add to the lower return packs, they could even throw in an XL engine or two on the side to help out.

This is a weird problem in that IS mechs are generally harder to play to begin with, but then they also need a massive pile of cbills thrown at them to even get to that point...though some Clan mechs are going to take a lot of money to get functional as well, the MAD-IIC and Supernova both need new XL engines.

[Jay Leon Hart]

Rismonite, on 09 November 2016 - 11:31 PM, said:

Look, I treat your game like a free to play game. I enjoy it excessively, I decide to contribute to your wallet today, makes me a pay to play player (I have bought things before, but it was cosmetic 'stuff'). Your company wants to be associated with "I just bought this package and the **** chassis they just sold me didn't even have double heat sink and endo-steel".. Guys.. ****.. all the mechs in the pack I just bought need at least Endo-Steel and DHS to feel like I didn't get poo.. Look you need to make single heat sinks or Standard structure a thing somehow or stop ripping off your paying peeps k? Because having a grind on the other end of pay to play is bad.. How do I recommend this to others really?

"Don't buy the bundle lights, you need an ECM mech just to do teamwork, and if you want to buy anything it'll be personalizing your mech, all the paint costs money too.."

"Don't buy the bundle assaults, you will have to immediately spend 5 Million C-Bills on every chassis for **** any idiot needs to immediately be ton for ton on par with the playerbase".

Your in-game currency is too valueable, my honest opinion.

Sounds like you bought cheap Inner Sphere 'mechs. Next time, buy some top quality Clan merchandise. There's a Diamond Shark rep around here somewhere, they can hook you up