476 replies to this topic

[General Solo]

Changes seem resonable
Now to test them out

[Gwydion Ward]

XtremWarrior, on 12 November 2016 - 04:34 PM, said:

Clan LPL being tuned down, cool! (even if i pilot Clans, i found CLPL definitely too good at range)

I just wonder if PGI realizes the only reason a LOT of clan players even use LPL's for 'ranged combat' is because they got sick of having their ERLL's given more and more and more of a burn-time.

I'd rather deal with the extra heat of a LPL, than sit there for 2-4 seconds staring at someone while i cook dinner waiting for the ERLL to finish shooting.

[Mcgral18]

Arkhangel, on 12 November 2016 - 02:13 PM, said:

that being said, nothing in this patch actually IS that bad. honestly, overall it's a decent patch. not the best ever, but not that bad.

and for the record, most of you complainers might want to actually take the time to read their reasoning rather than go "OMGWTFMYMECHISUSELESSNOW." You might not agree with it, but they're actually saying WHY they do the stuff now.

Which doesn't mean we can't complaint about it.

Jam durations nearly doubling is a pretty big change, of which all feedback was negative on the PTS
Then, it didn't address the other side of the coin: cACs being hot trash for 2 years

The PTS even FIXED part of that second part, in removing the cAC20 5.03s recycle (VS the 4.33 of the cUAC20 and the 4s of the AC20)
Yet, this patch ignores that VERY POSITIVE change, but implements the Terribad jam.


Why doesn't this reasoning touch the cAC issue? That's a fair complaint.
Patch is more positive than not, at least.
No more RNGeesus eating faces: very nice

isSL buff: Completely inadequate, but a positive step is better than none for 4 years

Lurm changes: Not negative, not nerfing the worst weapon system in the game, but also not touching their core issues.

PPC Anti-Jesus Box duration: pointless, but at least they aren't blanket numbers.
erPPC heat change isn't bad, but I'd rather it have more significant differences to the cERPPC. 3KM/s 14 heat, for example



No complaints about my upcoming
P O T A T O
deckle

How much is that going to cost me?
400 MC?
1200?

[SuperFunkTron]

Mcgral18, on 12 November 2016 - 05:35 PM, said:

Lurm changes: Not negative, not nerfing the worst weapon system in the game, but also not touching their core issues.

Out of curiosity, what are those core issues?

[Mcgral18]

SuperFunkTron, on 12 November 2016 - 05:39 PM, said:

Out of curiosity, what are those core issues?

The Magic Jesus Box blocking direct LoS target locks
The Magic Jesus Field doing the same to allies. Not as bad as it once was, with the 180M diameter, but it only allowed you to lock at 200M, but 180M was your min range

Now, you can target to 90M (the current bubble size) before it blocks locks.



The Magic Jesus Field is the Dorito stealing, where you're unable to even target. This is due to the "targetingfactor" attribute, currently set to 0.25
That is, 25% of your sensor range is what you can target mechs inside of a Magic Jesus Field.


Set that to 50%, 0.5, and suddently you can target mechs at 400M, far above the Lurm min range.
THAT would be a positive change to both Lurms and the Jesus Box (while returning his 180M dia bubble)



Now, that doesn't fix the whole Lurm issue either, it's another bandaid, but that's a 30 second to implement bandaid, unlike the years (past PGI experience) it would take for something more serious.


But, we don't get Super Simple Stuff, normally.

[Steel Raven]

Don't really understand the stated reasoning of the Clan LPL nerf considering than Clan ER LL always has been one of the clear winners in range but I guess it makes the IS LPL a little more competitive and that's not a bad thing in this game.

The PPC buffs don't really address any of the real issues that hamper their performance but I guess the hate of Pop Tarts and snipers will keep PPC fat and slow.

Ultra AC... Between the Dakka Bear, the Dakka Wolf, the Dakka Gyr, ect, I'm not surprise but this might hit the IS dakka boats more. Wait and see I guess.

Kodiak nerf... I rather see other mechs get a buffs but I don't see that happening now with new assaults on the way.

Cheeto nerf... I rather see other lights get a buffs but it's still has been overshadowing allot of other lights. God knows the IS light pilots are still pissed about the resale.

Missiles... god knows I have never got the jest of Lurms but my SRM machine are looking a little nicer.

[Navid A1]

SuperFunkTron, on 12 November 2016 - 04:54 PM, said:

I'm really confused as to where all this suffering is coming from. Anyone who is looking at the big picture of what they are trying to do can see that they are trying to extend time til death. There's no difference if you had one UAC or 6, there is no reason to whine about them slowing you down a few seconds between shots.

Are those who are complaining upset because they will have a harder time killing the enemy in obnoxiously short amounts of time? Or is it that a weapon that comes with an inherent risk of jamming as a consequence of risked reward is being balanced (not every adjustment is a "nerf")?

Based on what was explained in the notes, the general theme of their choices was to help pull the over performing mechs more in line with those that are performing at a more fair level. That happens to also include adjusting weapon systems where they explain that they are trying to create more specific roles for weapons.

I don't know how PGI can be expected to really build this game well when there is such an dramatic reaction to any changes made. They said they'll be watching how things go and adjust as necessary. We essentially have 2 realities that can come out of this. Either the boards go up in flames with nothing but complaints about every attempt at balancing the game better, which will further lead us in the direction of making aesthetically different mechs that function similarly, or we can offer objective, constructive criticism and encourage the development of mech roles. I would really like to see that expand rather than expecting a means to instantly kill the enemy.

I don't think a single UAC was able to kill an enemy in "obnoxiously short amounts of time"

With this change, KDK-3 (one and only 1 mech) is able to use UACs.... and that is it!
UACs will be replaced on every other mech with more reliable weapons.
Good luck using UAC20 on anything unless you want to make a complete fo,ol of yourself carrying 15 tons of dead weight for F*cking 12 seconds in the middle of a close range brawl.
F* that!

That is not balance. Blanket nerf is bad and anyone doing it and agreeing with it should feel bad.

[Wing 0]

Aramuside, on 12 November 2016 - 08:05 AM, said:

If you'd been intelligent and not gone to the clan with 50+% of the players... but no instead blame PGI for your stupidity....

You're an idiot. The players in this community game are scared of fights and that is exactly what PGI gave us. You players had been given several chances in helping FW and most of the community was too scared to play it. Scared to take on teams when most of the time there is no matchmaker. first come gets served. You want to prove me wrong, then get those buckets up and start playing.

If I recall, Most loyalists units are not even close to handling a heavy lifting that we mercs can do. We go where the fights are regardless of what faction unlike whatever the fk you're talking about.

[Navid A1]

Mcgral18, on 12 November 2016 - 05:35 PM, said:

Yet, this patch ignores that VERY POSITIVE change, but implements the Terribad jam.

That is the problem with everything they do.

As soon as they see positive feedback, their mindset instantly change to the notion that the players have found an exploit.
That is it, they think when someone gives positive feedback, it means he has found an exploit!!!!!!

Why do you think they are resisting on this epic scale when we ask them to remove CoF for MGs, Buffs to Victors, etc...
They think buffing the Victor will be exploited by players... otherwise they wouldn't have been asking for it.

this is messed up.

Edited by Navid A1, 12 November 2016 - 06:04 PM.

[Tarl Cabot]

BLOOD WOLF, on 12 November 2016 - 05:13 PM, said:

if they introduced the IS UAC10 maybe they can keep the single shell double tap.

It would not matter to me if PGI set it up with pellets per shot or not, though I actually like how the cUAC sounds and fires.

Edited by Tarl Cabot, 12 November 2016 - 06:12 PM.

[SuperFunkTron]

Navid A1, on 12 November 2016 - 05:59 PM, said:

I don't think a single UAC was able to kill an enemy in "obnoxiously short amounts of time"

A single UAC is by no means killing in an obnoxiously short amount of time. But consider what the contrast of an AC to a UAC is supposed to be. AC does not jam and provides a clear steady rate of fire. The UAC offers an extra salvo at the risk of a jam. Sure, jams suck, but it seems like a reasonable consequence for squeezing out double damage in the same time frame. It looks like the first of multiple steps to make the cAC useful again.

[cougurt]

SuperFunkTron, on 12 November 2016 - 06:42 PM, said:

A single UAC is by no means killing in an obnoxiously short amount of time. But consider what the contrast of an AC to a UAC is supposed to be. AC does not jam and provides a clear steady rate of fire. The UAC offers an extra salvo at the risk of a jam. Sure, jams suck, but it seems like a reasonable consequence for squeezing out double damage in the same time frame. It looks like the first of multiple steps to make the cAC useful again.

were they ever useful? my understanding was that regular clan autocannons were essentially a placeholder until they were able to implement changeable ammo types.

they don't need to nerf ultra autocannons, just give the few overperforming mechs negative jam chance quirks.

[Arkhangel]

Navid A1, on 12 November 2016 - 05:59 PM, said:

I don't think a single UAC was able to kill an enemy in "obnoxiously short amounts of time"

With this change, KDK-3 (one and only 1 mech) is able to use UACs.... and that is it!
UACs will be replaced on every other mech with more reliable weapons.
Good luck using UAC20 on anything unless you want to make a complete fo,ol of yourself carrying 15 tons of dead weight for F*cking 12 seconds in the middle of a close range brawl.
F* that!

That is not balance. Blanket nerf is bad and anyone doing it and agreeing with it should feel bad.

the problem here is how stupid people are about UACs. They're STILL USABLE and effective. the key is learning how to burst fire the damn things, rather than the "hold down the trigger" we've been seeing frankly EVERY UAC boat use. Mechs that carry them as secondary weapons shouldn't be bothered that much.

and, you know... PGI could always just give us the Tabletop version and have it with a 5% chance to jam PERMANENTLY.

Would you rather it be that way?

[Mcgral18]

Arkhangel, on 12 November 2016 - 06:48 PM, said:

the problem here is how stupid people are about UACs. They're STILL USABLE and effective. the key is learning how to burst fire the damn things, rather than the "hold down the trigger" we've been seeing frankly EVERY UAC boat use. Mechs that carry them as secondary weapons shouldn't be bothered that much.

and, you know... PGI could always just give us the Tabletop version and have it with a 5% chance to jam PERMANENTLY.

Would you rather it be that way?

At the moment, most weapon systems are viable at the top end.
There's ERLL boating, SRM and SPL brawling, PP FLD sniping at mid-long, as well as Dakka Meds, Heavies and Assaults.

We're likely to see the removal of ACs, due to the jam time being doubled, if you jam, you'll likely be dead before they unjam
Everything but the UAC20 gets a higher jam chance (the listed values are wrong, it's 14-15-16-17 currently)

Also, "holding the button down" is how you DON'T jam
You need to tap to fire twice.




Again, I've got to highlight the refusal to un-gimp the cACs. Normalize those cooldowns

[Navid A1]

This was too OP in PGI land...
So PGI saved us from it:

[BurningDesire]

this is so dumb the way everybody is sooking about the UAC change. its risk V reward now with them, where before there was no risk to double tap now there is. C-LPL needed to change there was no need for ER laseres now there is, C-ERLL work fine it burns for .25 seconds longer than IS and does 2 more damage stop crying.

Edited by BurningDesire, 12 November 2016 - 07:27 PM.

[Navid A1]

SuperFunkTron, on 12 November 2016 - 06:42 PM, said:

A single UAC is by no means killing in an obnoxiously short amount of time. But consider what the contrast of an AC to a UAC is supposed to be. AC does not jam and provides a clear steady rate of fire. The UAC offers an extra salvo at the risk of a jam. Sure, jams suck, but it seems like a reasonable consequence for squeezing out double damage in the same time frame. It looks like the first of multiple steps to make the cAC useful again.

Yeah, A fake place holder as a permanent sign of PGI's inability to code switchable ammo.

Please realize that we are not discussing about UAC jams or no jams.
UACs should jam. They do Jam right now!, and they are fine!

If you wanna increase jam time, then decrease the chance. Simple as that!

Arkhangel, on 12 November 2016 - 06:48 PM, said:

the problem here is how stupid people are about UACs. They're STILL USABLE and effective. the key is learning how to burst fire the damn things, rather than the "hold down the trigger" we've been seeing frankly EVERY UAC boat use. Mechs that carry them as secondary weapons shouldn't be bothered that much.

and, you know... PGI could always just give us the Tabletop version and have it with a 5% chance to jam PERMANENTLY.

Would you rather it be that way?

The problem right now is mechs that carried them as secondary weapon are now looking for a replacement.
Had UAC20 on any of your mechs?... better say goodbye.
UAC20 is used close range... good luck "Bursting" with that... you'll be "burst" open before that thing unjams... 12 F*ing seconds!

Edited by Navid A1, 12 November 2016 - 07:30 PM.

[Gas Guzzler]

Arkhangel, on 12 November 2016 - 06:48 PM, said:

the problem here is how stupid people are about UACs. They're STILL USABLE and effective. the key is learning how to burst fire the damn things, rather than the "hold down the trigger" we've been seeing frankly EVERY UAC boat use. Mechs that carry them as secondary weapons shouldn't be bothered that much.

and, you know... PGI could always just give us the Tabletop version and have it with a 5% chance to jam PERMANENTLY.

Would you rather it be that way?

If double tapping doesn't work, you might as well just bring a Gauss, which is what most are going to do following this patch.

It was nice to be able to use ballistic hardpoints for something other than a Gauss for a while, but I guess we can't have that, autocannons can't be good. Keep em nerfed!

[Mcgral18]

BurningDesire, on 12 November 2016 - 07:24 PM, said:

this is so dumb the way everybody is sooking about the UAC change. its risk V reward now with them, where before there was no risk to double tap now there is. C-LPL needed to change there was no need for ER laseres now there is, C-ERLL work fine it burns for .25 seconds longer than IS and does 2 more damage stop crying.

I'd rather have a game with balance

UACs fit nicely in the current game, they're likely going to suffer significantly come the patch

+3s to firing again
That's a full firing cycle for many mechs.
8 seconds is nearly 3 cycles, which you cannot fire a main weapon again.



You want to do the math? How long can a mech survive without being able to fire it's weapon?



The cERLL and isERLL have virtually identical Dam/tick
.73 (inf, clam) VS 0.72(is)
Get a 10% duration quirk, you get 0.8
0.9 for 20% (not many of those left)

cLPL gets 1.16 Dam/tick, hence why it gets chosen more often. Better damage application.

Edited by Mcgral18, 12 November 2016 - 07:35 PM.

[Gwydion Ward]

SuperFunkTron, on 12 November 2016 - 06:42 PM, said:

A single UAC is by no means killing in an obnoxiously short amount of time. But consider what the contrast of an AC to a UAC is supposed to be. AC does not jam and provides a clear steady rate of fire. The UAC offers an extra salvo at the risk of a jam. Sure, jams suck, but it seems like a reasonable consequence for squeezing out double damage in the same time frame. It looks like the first of multiple steps to make the cAC useful again.

And did you bother to read the reason they posted 'for' the change they made?

Quote

While the Kodiak might have prompted our initial investigation into the UAC line of weaponry, we should say upfront that the above changes were not implemented in an attempt to address the performance of the Kodiak alone, but instead were a result of close monitoring all UAC 'boats', such as the Mauler, Night Gyr, Dire Wolf, and others

They made the change to counter UAC "Boats" Ie... Mech's that carry 4+ of the things.

The problem is, their 'counter to the Boating', isnt going to hurt the Boaters NEARLY as much as it will hurt the people who DONT boat.. If anything, it'll continue to just be a minor annoyance to people who carry 6 UAC2's to have 1 or 2 of their UAC's jam 2x as often now... but for someone carrying 1 of them.. their weapon is now utterly useless to use as if they EVER jam, their weapon is now just dead-weight for 3 to 8 seconds. which is nearly 2-3times the time it takes for regular cAC weapons to cycle.

Their reason for the change does not reflect in what will actually happen. THAT is my problem with it. Not that they tried to address the UAC Boating, but that their 'change' does nothing to prevent it, and only hurts people who are not even boating.