43 replies to this topic

[Magnus Santini]

The Kodiak should have gun barrels like the missile tubes on the Victor, causing the last few rounds of each shot to dribble out into the terrain for a second or two after shooting, preventing reload until it finishes, and screwing up the next salvo from the weapon group. Because the solution to the Victor's lack of short range brawling viability is not going to be 10 points of side torso structure so we put XL engines on them.

[C E Dwyer]

DAYLEET, on 11 November 2016 - 03:16 PM, said:

the people left playing the Victor are probably so pro that the stats tells pgi they dont need a buff =)

lol thank you for that vote of confidence , it must have been the four games I played where I didn't get less than 450 damage two weeks ago that did the damage..

wonder what I would have done in a good mech

[C E Dwyer]

Magnus Santini, on 15 November 2016 - 11:57 AM, said:

The Kodiak should have gun barrels like the missile tubes on the Victor, causing the last few rounds of each shot to dribble out into the terrain for a second or two after shooting, preventing reload until it finishes, and screwing up the next salvo from the weapon group. Because the solution to the Victor's lack of short range brawling viability is not going to be 10 points of side torso structure so we put XL engines on them.

I know, but it would help, it take another hit.

I mean they give the mech leg structure..it can't jump anymore..worth a damn.
They give the Victor arm Structure, yet how many times do you ever lose an arm.

[SirSlaughter]

Sad Panda, on 11 November 2016 - 01:24 PM, said:

And this makes me want to play it all the more:

"Victor Design Notes: Only a minor adjustment for the Victor here, providing a 10% boost to its existing Accel/Decel Quirks."

Really?

As if lots of people play it these days! Its just slightly better than a kit fox........

I guess you will remain sad Mr. Panda for long time..

[Duke Nedo]

I have fooled around a bit in Victors the last week and they really do need some help in the tanking department. They handle really well though but you more or less need to go XL engine to bring any oomf, but then you need some more ST structure to go with it. Best I got was like 4 kills and 600 dmg a few times in some 20 drops with a few sub 200 dmg rounds at the other end. Then I make a single drop in a KDK or KGC and break 1000+ first try... so IMHO the VTR performance lies at some 50% of the best assaults.

Give it:
+10 -> +18 ST structure (same as AWS)
+0 -> +20 CT structure (worse than AWS)
+0 -> +100% JJ lift (because max JJ is not enough to fly)

I'd play that when I want to have some brawling fun, and I don't think any comp people would touch it still.

Edit: and fix those tubes!

Edited by Duke Nedo, 18 November 2016 - 03:21 AM.

[DrxAbstract]

Steve Pryde, on 11 November 2016 - 05:23 PM, said:

That's the (big) problem. They don't. What Victor needs is more accleration/deceleration- and structure buffs. And a complete overhaul for jump jets for heavys and assaults.

That's not the problem; They don't play nearly as often asus, but they do in fact play MWO.

Which you could legitimately argue does more harm than good because they're all terrible at it. I've played with and against nearly all the PGI staffers that boot up the game, including Paul - They're fun people, but they're really, really bad. Why would you expect potato-level players to have a measurable, accurate grasp of game balance? It's tantamount to strapping on a Mech with X weapons, charging into 5 people, meeting death while spraying their weapons wildly within seconds and then reporting back that the bloody thing and its weapons are performing at, above or below adequate levels and therefor does or does not need anything addressed - It's lunacy.

At this point and in that respect I'm perfectly fine with them not playing their own game because we've seen the changes made based on the experiences of PGI staff in the QP environment (And their 'Internal Tests') with their limited perspective; They haven't, to this date, been beneficial to the game as a whole... Often resulting in long-term detrimental effects for the sake of 'fixing' fleeting, short-term variables.

The best people to listen to are the ones that don't just play the game, but play it well, run the numbers and have real experience in the multiple engagement styles, builds and general idiosyncrasies of the game... Of which there are few remaining in this community due almost entirely to the way PGI's been handling things.

Is it really that bad? No, but it's not good either. When your methodology damages your product's appeal and performance while simultaneously driving away the people that can help you correct it, you should probably make doing something to change that a priority. Although... this is PGI we're talking about--they've never experienced 'success' of this level with their products and I don't think they know what to do with it or where to go from here because when mediocrity is the pinnacle of your performance thus far then going from there is literally an unknown, unfathomable notion... And I'm convinced at this point they're comfortable with being minimally viable because hey, why bother trying to do better when they're already at the best they've ever been! ...

To summarize: PGI's on an deserted island, just found food for the first time and is completely content with ignoring every other issue like shelter, predators, long-term food supply, potable water, fire or actual rescue because they're not starving to death for the first time in the history of stranding themselves on islands; They're quite excited to have finally made it past level 1! ... Welcome, MechWarriors, to PGI Level 2!

[PhoenixFire55]

[oldradagast]

Daemon04, on 11 November 2016 - 03:50 PM, said:

Im a fond and passionate dragon slayer pilot but i cannot see these accel/decel quirks buffs as a buff, in contrast just the missile tubes need to be fixed to make its missile hardpoints useful in general for that mech. I dont even care about the jump jet nerfs of IS mechs, proper tubes and it would make a signifcant difference.
that phx buff - yes, thats ok but the victors, come on.
the dragon slayer is my first hero but ive not played the same amount of games in it as i did with my iv-four-baby and ive just bought the iv-four 2-3 months ago. you wouldnt believe the xp and match difference of these too.

The Pretty Baby also still suffers from the idiotic missile tube limit. I guess it is also overpowered according to PGI. The funny part is that a Centurion at 50 tons can put out more missiles per salvo than an Awesome or Victor at 80 tons, if you look at the variants with messed up missile tubes. They fixed SOME of the mechs with messed up missile tubes, but not all of them. I suspect "that one guy" who knew how to do that left the company.

As for the Victor, it is still trash, and the rare times I see one they are completely irrelevant. I fear Awesomes more than Victors these days.

Edited by oldradagast, 18 November 2016 - 05:53 AM.

[lazytopaz]

What people probably desired in patch notes.

Victor - someone finds a vault with new prototype victors. What is unique about it its replicable only to this mech type. It has unique engine design with extensive customization for xl engines. Intricate mechanical work done to it made its regular XL engines heavier but more reliable and tougher. Side torso space taken by the engine only consists of the circuitry and mechanical parts to work that particular side of the torso.

For example if you get critted in one of the torso but still have your arm/side torso on the mech -> your mech cuts it off rerouts all remaining power to working part of the mech.

Side torso blown off? no problem you can still go about.
Works like clan xl engine. Less effective version of it tho. Heavier than regular XL engine but when side torso is blown off/st engine part damaged you are still in the fight and get small buff to output of your remaining weapons/hardpoints.

Problem solved?

Edited by lazytopaz, 18 November 2016 - 06:03 AM.

[Duke Nedo]

lazytopaz, on 18 November 2016 - 06:00 AM, said:

What people probably desired in patch notes.

Victor - someone finds a vault with new prototype victors. What is unique about it its replicable only to this mech type. It has unique engine design with extensive customization for xl engines. Intricate mechanical work done to it made its regular XL engines heavier but more reliable and tougher.

Side torso blown off? no problem you can still go about.
Works like clan xl engine. Less effective version of it tho. Heavier than regular XL engine but when side torso is blown off you are still in the fight.

Problem solved?

Too few E hardpoints to do well with something heavier than an XL engine... moar ST quirks is the only thing that can justify it imo. It is hardpoint starved and the hardpoints it has is in the low slung arms. So, it needs speed, heavy weapons and jumpjets to be fun, i.e. ST structure to allow XL and improved JJs.

[lazytopaz]

Duke Nedo, on 18 November 2016 - 06:05 AM, said:

Too few E hardpoints to do well with something heavier than an XL engine... moar ST quirks is the only thing that can justify it imo. It is hardpoint starved and the hardpoints it has is in the low slung arms. So, it needs speed, heavy weapons and jumpjets to be fun, i.e. ST structure to allow XL and improved JJs.

Sorry forgot to add essential point : Heavier than regular XL, but still lighter than STD.

And as far as hardpoints go Sarna states there was a hero variant that had 10 lasers in one arm and lrm 15 in the other side torso.

Well one could wonder what would be if you could fit into Victor : Supercharger + MASC 2,5 faster than max speed so that gives us about light mech speed?

[Andi Nagasia]

simple solution for the Victor(other than a JJ buff)
add +5CT Structure & +2ST Structure Every Patch until its Balanced?

[MadHornet]

I wish they just fixed the stupid missile tubes on the 9S. I can't do a brawler build without requiring too much face time because I have to wait for all of them to fire.

[Bud Crue]

Andi Nagasia, on 18 November 2016 - 07:48 AM, said:

simple solution for the Victor(other than a JJ buff)
add +5CT Structure & +2ST Structure Every Patch until its Balanced?

I think that is the bigger problem...they think it is already close to being balanced. The fact that they gave it 10 extra points in the STs post re-scale and now mere 10% movement buffs, suggests to me that they think it is pretty close to where it should be. That to me is pretty sad/scary/depressing.

[Daemon04]

oldradagast, on 18 November 2016 - 05:52 AM, said:

The Pretty Baby also still suffers from the idiotic missile tube limit. I guess it is also overpowered according to PGI. The funny part is that a Centurion at 50 tons can put out more missiles per salvo than an Awesome or Victor at 80 tons, if you look at the variants with messed up missile tubes. They fixed SOME of the mechs with messed up missile tubes, but not all of them. I suspect "that one guy" who knew how to do that left the company.

As for the Victor, it is still trash, and the rare times I see one they are completely irrelevant. I fear Awesomes more than Victors these days.

You're friggin right. A centurion shouldnt be able to do this rather than an assault itself.

[Saint Scarlett Johan]

Russ Bullocks said:

Guys, guys, guys... I know you're upset another the state of the Victor. But we ran the numbers and determined they're adequate. Making Victors great again just isn't important to the game. We need you buying mech packs to keep the lights because we have no idea what we're doing.

[Gas Guzzler]

Saint Scarlett Johan, on 18 November 2016 - 10:03 AM, said:

Your going to get in trouble for impersonating Russ. Just happened to a unit mate of mine.

[Bluttrunken]

My Warhammers have stronger quirks than my Phoenix Hawks.

Btw.

I know this might seem completely unrelated to the topic at hand.

My favourite expression in this thread "Dartboard of Balance".

Edited by Bluttrunken, 18 November 2016 - 10:12 AM.

[mogs01gt]

Like all 80t mechs, they need shrunk down.

[DrxAbstract]

mogs01gt, on 18 November 2016 - 10:59 AM, said:

Like all 80t mechs, they need shrunk down.

Fixt.