60 replies to this topic

[Tristan Winter]

People have very different perspectives depending on their level of competition and whether they play with organized, competitive units or pug queue. "Useless" is relative.

As for PPCs, I think it's likely that we'll see more cERPPCs in the solo queue after this patch, although they're already fairly common. The big problem is going to be timid gameplay and lots of people voting for Frozen City in order to snipe across that river for the 100th time. You can play a Locust and relish in the fact that most enemies won't be able to hit you with PPCs, but it doesn't do you much good if your team is stuck behind cover, trading PPCs while slowly dying. In that scenario, your ability to be last man standing in a Locust is worth f*ck all. Especially in the current state of the game where most matches have 0-2 light mechs. It's not like you can get a wolf pack going.

And also, the increase of LRMs will further disincentivize brawling and flanking. Even fewer people trying to push.

Could be quite boring in the solo queue for a while.

EDIT: I would assume they nerfed AC5s only to deal with the Mauler. I haven't noticed any other mechs perform particularly well with AC5s. Or maybe they predicted the return of the AC5+PPC Banshee? Who knows.

Edited by Tristan Winter, 14 November 2016 - 06:42 AM.

[Bandilly]

Toha Heavy Industries, on 13 November 2016 - 07:56 PM, said:

Who used a c-large pulse @ 1,2 km anyways?

If you have a free shot and it will do any damage you take it. Granted, you will be trying to move into effective range, but sometimes you have to wait and you might get a few tickle shots in during that wait.

Overall though it's less about those max range shots than it is about those mid ramge 800-900m shots. The longer max range also gave it a much slower damage drop off, allowing you to shoot a few hundred meters past it's max range without suffering too much damage drop off. With higher base damage and a faster burn time even though the large pulse was suffering from more damage drop off it was still more effective in many sniper battles than the ERLL.

[Rear Admiral Tier 6]

El Bandito, on 13 November 2016 - 09:44 PM, said:

PPFLD (specifically Clan PPFLD) is indeed meta in the championship. However, that is the meta in the highest level of coordination and play--which doesn't translate well into pug matches.

This,most pug teams are unable to stay alive long enough(enemies or friendlies) for ppc gauss mechs to rake in reasonable amount of damage.
You need to fire constantly and be airborne most of the time with lets say a Summoner with ppcs or ppc gauss.

Edited by Rear Admiral Tier 6, 14 November 2016 - 06:54 AM.

[Widowmaker1981]

Tristan Winter, on 14 November 2016 - 06:41 AM, said:

People have very different perspectives depending on their level of competition and whether they play with organized, competitive units or pug queue. "Useless" is relative.

As for PPCs, I think it's likely that we'll see more cERPPCs in the solo queue after this patch, although they're already fairly common. The big problem is going to be timid gameplay and lots of people voting for Frozen City in order to snipe across that river for the 100th time. You can play a Locust and relish in the fact that most enemies won't be able to hit you with PPCs, but it doesn't do you much good if your team is stuck behind cover, trading PPCs while slowly dying. In that scenario, your ability to be last man standing in a Locust is worth f*ck all. Especially in the current state of the game where most matches have 0-2 light mechs. It's not like you can get a wolf pack going.

And also, the increase of LRMs will further disincentivize brawling and flanking. Even fewer people trying to push.

Could be quite boring in the solo queue for a while.

Personally, ill be happy. I enjoy slower paced, longer games with more trading much more than over-to-quickly brawl clusterducks

Just to show how its all a matter of opinion (because 90% of the most vocal people seem to be brawler types, i think its an alpha personality thing)

[Gas Guzzler]

El Bandito, on 14 November 2016 - 01:51 AM, said:

I am tired of explaining everything again and again. Go through my older posts if you must, but I know from experience that you are mistaken in regards to CLPL and CUAC viability, post patch.

cLPL is rare at the high level already, so yeah, no. And I trust my experience and McGral's, and Quicksilver's and the EMP guys more than I trust your's, no offense. It's pretty clear that a nerf hammer on something that already has balanced counters is going to leave it non-viable at high level play, that isn't a tough conclusion to come to. I've read your "don't double tap all the time" views, and sorry, not double tapping means changing weapons.

[El Bandito]

Gas Guzzler, on 14 November 2016 - 07:01 AM, said:

cLPL is rare at the high level already, so yeah, no. And I trust my experience and McGral's, and Quicksilver's and the EMP guys more than I trust your's, no offense. It's pretty clear that a nerf hammer on something that already has balanced counters is going to leave it non-viable at high level play, that isn't a tough conclusion to come to. I've read your "don't double tap all the time" views, and sorry, not double tapping means changing weapons.

Go ahead. Unless you play at comp level, this change aint something to cry about.

[Tristan Winter]

Widowmaker1981, on 14 November 2016 - 06:56 AM, said:

Personally, ill be happy. I enjoy slower paced, longer games with more trading much more than over-to-quickly brawl clusterducks
Just to show how its all a matter of opinion (because 90% of the most vocal people seem to be brawler types, i think its an alpha personality thing)

I enjoy slower paced, longer matches if there's a bit of thinking and maneuvering involved. When both teams just march over to the standard positions on River City, Frozen City, Alpine Peaks or Crimson Strait and then just start sniping like they're playing a game of Duck Hunt, I find it boring.

I don't think 90% of the most vocal people playing MWO have alpha personalities either, whatever that is. (AFAIK, the concept of alpha personality is not grounded in psychological research) I bet a lot of the people who are vocal in MWO games are very far from what you would consider 'alpha' in real life.

[Bud Crue]

From a T3 but still a terribad perspective, here is my take/predictions regarding these changes:
This may be a return to LRMageddon for mid and low tier players...I think it will be because of the LRM buffs in context with the other changes.

Uac spam is going to be a bit varied in the short run, but still they won't go anywhere as they still run cooler than anything else; but lower skilled folks relying on constant double tapping are going to get really annoyed by the long jam period and look for an alternative (like newly buffed LRMs for example).

PPCs will still be used by top skill players (with Gauss) because yall know how to aim and lead. Lower skill players will try this as well and give up, leading to numerous posts about how "PPCs still suck". Again this will lead at least some to look for an long-range alternative (like, maybe those LRMs).

Lasers will see a renaissance for mid skill players who have a hard time using PPCs in anything but the most PPC friendly mechs, but who can't stomach tbe thought of using LRMs and want direct fire weapon. Just my initial thoughts and expectations from the lowlands of play and skill.

[Gas Guzzler]

El Bandito, on 14 November 2016 - 07:07 AM, said:

Go ahead. Unless you play at comp level, this change aint something to cry about.

Well... I do play at comp level, so I will continue to complain about that net loss of game balance.

I was so excited to try all manner of UAC Marauder-IICs. Maybe the cUAC5s will still be passable. I guess the ones with ER PPC/Goose and mega laser vomit will be fun, but will get old...

[DjPush]

The adjustments wont bother me one bit. I never played mechs for their quirks and I'm smart enough and skilled enough at MWO to adapt to weapons changes.

[FupDup]

I'm going to expand on something I said earlier about the IS AC/5 versus Clan UAC/5...excluding the former could have been an "indirect" way to improve the former relative to the latter, without directly buffing the lethality of the former.

I think this would also apply to the Clan LB 5-X and Clan standard AC/5. Both are in horrible shape balance-wise, so it would have helped them have SOME sort of advantage relative to the Clan UAC/5 if they had been excluded from the heat increase. Would it really have been so bad if they had one little advantage over the CUAC/5? Just one?

Nice things like that are not allowed to ever happen, though, because we gotta have dat normalization all the time at all costs, no matter what the consequences are.

Edited by FupDup, 14 November 2016 - 01:54 PM.

[Deathlike]

El Bandito, on 14 November 2016 - 07:07 AM, said:

Go ahead. Unless you play at comp level, this change aint something to cry about.

It is.

High DPS weaponry (usually at close to mid range - and in the form of UACs) should be the counter to FLD (PPC+Gauss).

When that is not the case, then FLD will be the primary goto option... like it was before back when we had the older 2013 PPC+Gauss.

The concerns about dakka being overnerfed is a reality, and if the fear is confirmed, PPC+Gauss will be the only thing that matters come post patchday.

Lasers already got its nerf, and it's been like that for a while now (almost a year) and while it's situationally useful, it's not been a goto thing.

Anyways, I'm preparing for that new nightmare/reality... just like the presidential election.

[El Bandito]

Deathlike, on 14 November 2016 - 06:40 PM, said:

It is.High DPS weaponry (usually at close to mid range - and in the form of UACs) should be the counter to FLD (PPC+Gauss).

When that is not the case, then FLD will be the primary goto option... like it was before back when we had the older 2013 PPC+Gauss.

The concerns about dakka being overnerfed is a reality, and if the fear is confirmed, PPC+Gauss will be the only thing that matters come post patchday.

Lasers already got its nerf, and it's been like that for a while now (almost a year) and while it's situationally useful, it's not been a goto thing.

Anyways, I'm preparing for that new nightmare/reality... just like the presidential election.

Old PPC+Gauss meta was supported by poptarting with actual JJs, which isn't the case now. I'll take your word for it, but I want Clan Gauss to be nerfed afterwards anyway, and the possible Gauss/PPC meta will serve that purpose very well.

[Mister Blastman]

I don't need to worry anymore. Mechwarrior Living Legends is alive and strong. Come over and play some. It is great.

[Deathlike]

El Bandito, on 14 November 2016 - 06:50 PM, said:

Old PPC+Gauss meta was supported by poptarting with actual JJs, which isn't the case now. I'll take your word for it, but I want Clan Gauss to be nerfed afterwards anyway, and the possible Gauss/PPC meta will serve that purpose very well.

I suggest you look into what the poptart meta looks like now.

It's a lot of Timberwolves (crappy JJs, but more potent alpha), Night Gyrs (PPC+Dual Gauss, better alpha-DPS sustainability), Summoners (nipple PPCs are a thing and very sustainable).. and while the some of them are not available for comp (Summoner torsos and Night Gyrs), they are the bulk of the heavy mech poptart meta...

For Mediums, it's Hunchback-IICs (yes, they won't get quirks anytime soon, unless...), Novas (better heat gen quirks for better poptarting sustainability), and the occasional BJs (BJ-3s has the quirks). Scats have been in the equation as well (just for ECM poptarting - really stupidly hot though).

The best poptart mechs are generally Clan mechs.. with some minor exceptions/options, so it's been a thing (PPC+Gauss Kodiaks are a thing even if UACs go the way of the nerfdodo).

Edited by Deathlike, 14 November 2016 - 07:12 PM.

[El Bandito]

Deathlike, on 14 November 2016 - 07:09 PM, said:

I suggest you look into what the poptart meta looks like now.

It's a lot of Timberwolves (crappy JJs, but more potent alpha), Night Gyrs (PPC+Dual Gauss, better alpha-DPS sustainability), Summoners (nipple PPCs are a thing and very sustainable).. and while the some of them are not available for comp (Summoner torsos and Night Gyrs), they are the bulk of the heavy mech poptart meta...

For Mediums, it's Hunchback-IICs (yes, they won't get quirks anytime soon, unless...), Novas (better heat gen quirks for better poptarting sustainability), and the occasional BJs (BJ-3s has the quirks). Scats have been in the equation as well (just for ECM poptarting - really stupidly hot though).

The best poptart mechs are generally Clan mechs.. with some minor exceptions/options, so it's been a thing (PPC+Gauss Kodiaks are a thing even if UACs go the way of the nerfdodo).

Which means my CGauss nerf crusade is right on target, as most of those poptarts are Clanners.

[Deathlike]

El Bandito, on 14 November 2016 - 07:15 PM, said:

Which means my CGauss nerf crusade is right on target, as most of those poptarts are Clanners.

It's a little more than that though... it's mostly a lot of weapons+equipment that aren't as balanced... like NARC, BAP/CAP, LBX10... things that got copypasted over, but never got any real differentiation and kept some of its superiority (in some way shape or form).

Our balance overlord is incapable of finding the obvious though.

Edited by Deathlike, 14 November 2016 - 07:24 PM.

[El Bandito]

Deathlike, on 14 November 2016 - 07:24 PM, said:

It's a little more than that though... it's mostly a lot of weapons+equipment that aren't as balanced... like NARC, BAP/CAP, LBX10... things that got copypasted over, but never got any real differentiation and kept some of its superiority (in some way shape or form).

Our balance overlord is incapable of finding the obvious though.

Dammit Deathlike, I have already written tons of posts about PGI's need to balance all other Clan/IS version of weapons and equipments, I don't think you need to remind me of all people about that.

As for Paul and Russ, I have been spamming them with tweets for the last two days for such purpose, which is the best I can do for now.

Edited by El Bandito, 14 November 2016 - 07:30 PM.

[Deathlike]

El Bandito, on 14 November 2016 - 07:29 PM, said:

Dammit Deathlike, I have already written tons of posts about PGI's need to balance all other Clan/IS version of weapons and equipments, I don't think you need to remind me of all people about that.

As for Paul and Russ, I have been spamming them with tweets for the last two days for such purpose, which is the best I can do for now.

Can you sense my level of apathy?

It goes up to 11.

[Hades Trooper]

Toha Heavy Industries, on 13 November 2016 - 07:56 PM, said:

from 14 to 13,5 but only the IS version. Hardly any difference.
Mind you, the ballistic and c-large pulse changes will have even less of an impact.
Who used a c-large pulse @ 1,2 km anyways?

my night gyr with it's targeting computer, c chassis 10% range bonus and a range extender module had my clan large pulse optimal range of 750 metres. Now there got a 800 max?

this is truly **** i could hit things at 1.3 km and still do decent damage with dual large pulse.

El Bandito, on 13 November 2016 - 08:35 PM, said:

Bad/misinformed thread is bad. Both CLPL and UACs will still be useful. Player mentality however, will compel them to stay away from those weapons for a while simply because they are nerfed, despite their continued usability.

of course a IS pilot would say something so ill informed