20 replies to this topic

[BodakOfSseth]

So, of course you get a little background.

Got the BJ-2L, and figured, WTH, I'll go Blackjack for my first medium mech - (while waiting for my Bushwacker). I'm having good success with SRMs+MLas, and figured I need to start elite-ing the chassis. Between that one and the CTF-0XP build, it catapulted me into Tier 3 (yay...)

After doing some reading, I thought the ERPPC sniper on the BJ-3 chassis would be a good choice for me. Not so much - I can't get it to move fast enough to stay out of trouble or keep up with allies, and it can't stand up to pretty much anything on its own. General failure put me back in Tier 4 (yay...) So I rebuilt it for 2x ERLgLas and 4x MLas; doing much better now.

Now I'm considering my 3rd BJ chassis, and before I buy I'm looking at the different builds and options and have come up with this:

BJ-1X Las/Flamer

The 6x MLas is the most I've mounted on a chassis thus far, and the 2 flamers I figure will be good for those few times I'm really up close. Running max engine size looks fantastic to me, and the armor is still... okay.

I see this guy still as a skirmisher - edges of the brawl to fend off lights and tear up whomever is the unfortunate soul the team is focusing on.

I think it might be worth it to drop the engine size a smidge to max armor.

Thoughts?
Advice?

[stealthraccoon]

Boomjack or go home!

Or good old fashioned AC2's are a lot of con on the BJ-1

[epikt]

Quote

it might be worth it to drop the engine size

Nah, if you're going for the 1X you better take advantage of its main perk: the high engine cap.

Just for information, the most popular build for this mech is 6MLas and 2MPLas. 3LLas or 3LPLas are also possible, as well as LPLas+MLas combos.
I would not recommand using flamers on this mech, too much face-time. You want to poke, hide, poke again.

[Nullmancer]

I have three issues with your BJ-1X build, one, standard engine, should get an XL in there asap so you can stuff the thing full of double heatsinks. Two, flamers in the torso's, those would probably be better in the arms or traded out for more lasers once you fill the chassis full of heatsinks. Three, find some tonnage for armor, max out your torso's, legs can be a bit low, arms can even be down a few points, your head doesn't really have to be maxed.

Also, even with maximum heatsinks, the BJ-1X is a heathog. Controlling fire rate and backing off to cool down and reposition is necessary. I would suggest that each set of arm hardpoints is in its own fire group, with the torso's as third so you help manage heat by staggering your fire and it also lends itself well to peaking efficiently. Alpha rarely and when appropriate.

Now, I suggest you not stray too far from the pack while flanking, the BJ-1X looks like it would wreck face but, it is poorly designed for brawling, it is much better acting as close fire support preferably peeking over cover, aiming down or up at something. You basically want to try to reveal only your upper line of hardpoints as much as possible. The BJ-1X has a poor twist range as well, and with the limited arm mobility, you will have trouble tracking fast targets and enemies that are moving to your sides, the burn time on med lasers dont help much here either.

The BJ-3 I feel doesn't do ER ppc's very well, slow fire rate, high heat and low damage just dont cut it. Regular PPC's aint that much better in my opinion. If you want to do PPC's, I would suggest 2x PPC's 2x Med laser and stuff it full of heatsinks with some jumpjets, again XL engine. Keep a sharp eye on your heat though, I tend to stagger fire the PPC's most of the time, and really try not to use the med lasers unless I have too. Heat is a ***** on all BJ's you kinda have to use an XL engine simply to fit enough cooling to get somewhere with the chassis'.

If you wanted another BJ, I would suggest the BJ-1 over the 1DC. It does the stock weapons build fantastically as long as you manage your heat. The 1DC has no jumpjets, has a lesser twist range like the BJ-1X, and its extra torso hardpoints are low on its torso's meaning you have to expose a lot more of the mech to use them, which is something you generally don't want to do with a low end, slower med mech.

The Arrow is nice, I've fallen out of love with it over the years though. 6 machine gun, 2 LPL is pretty good, you could even fit a med laser in the center torso, but it starts to get hot. Other people like the triple large laser build. I dont, you have to expose too much of the mech to make it work and the same issue with the 1DC emerge.


In lower tiers you wont have to worry overmuch about exposure, but as you get up in tiers, enemy players tend to be much more unforgiving about positional mistakes and will gladly tear off your torso given the chance.



If you knew this already then I apologize for telling you something you already know, maybe it will benefit someone else reading.


my current Blackjack builds if your interested.

BJ-1

BJ-1X

BJ-1X - the metamech build for the BJ-1X. Probably the most optimized BJ-1X build you're going to get.

BJ-3

ARROW


not really satisfied with the BJ-2 builds I've tried, so I wont post em. I also dont own a 1DC and dont have a build for that either. One additional thing to consider is that the BJ-1 and BJ-1DC can both fit an AC 20 in their stubby little arms, (Boomjack!), but only the BJ-1 has jumpjets. Guass is also an option as well.

well, much more then you asked for, apologies but I tend to be verbose about the Blackjacks.

Edited by Nullmancer, 15 November 2016 - 10:57 AM.

[BodakOfSseth]

epikt, on 14 November 2016 - 11:24 AM, said:

Nah, if you're going for the 1X you better take advantage of its main perk: the high engine cap.

Just for information, the most popular build for this mech is 6MLas and 2MPLas. 3LLas or 3LPLas are also possible, as well as LPLas+MLas combos.
I would not recommand using flamers on this mech, too much face-time. You want to poke, hide, poke again.

Right, your suggested build goes with the XL engine, which I'm firmly against for IS mechs, and especially the Blackjacks. so then to go with the 6MLas & 2 MPLas, I'd have to lower the engine to a 275, and half a ton extra space... so, meh. Dropping the flamers entirely gives me the armor and an extra half ton or so.

in both cases, I suppose I could drop a half ton of armor and add another DHS...

[Nullmancer]

ScottAleric, on 14 November 2016 - 12:35 PM, said:

Right, your suggested build goes with the XL engine, which I'm firmly against for IS mechs, and especially the Blackjacks. so then to go with the 6MLas & 2 MPLas, I'd have to lower the engine to a 275, and half a ton extra space... so, meh. Dropping the flamers entirely gives me the armor and an extra half ton or so.

in both cases, I suppose I could drop a half ton of armor and add another DHS...

whereas it is possible to build IS med's with standards, you generally gain significantly more performance with the XL and if playstyle is adjusted accordingly, the vulnerability can be mitigated.

the only medium I own that has a standard engine is the Hunchback 4G, everyone shoots the obvious torso.

The sad truth is that to get the most performance out of IS medium, especially against clan mechs, you will generally have to use an XL.

[BodakOfSseth]

Nullmancer, on 14 November 2016 - 12:45 PM, said:

whereas it is possible to build IS med's with standards, you generally gain significantly more performance with the XL and if playstyle is adjusted accordingly, the vulnerability can be mitigated.

the only medium I own that has a standard engine is the Hunchback 4G, everyone shoots the obvious torso.

The sad truth is that to get the most performance out of IS medium, especially against clan mechs, you will generally have to use an XL.

If I ever get to the point where I'm considering tier 1, I may do that.
Right now, it's just one more thing I don't want to have to worry about. I really don't need to be stressed out and pissed off at at myself or the other players when I get alpha'd on one of my side torsos.
...or when my own team friendly fires me.

In the mean time, I want durability as a feature, and am willing to sacrifice DPS to get it.

*looks at builds again* ...besides, my flamer build has about the same cooling as the XL, DHS-packed 8-med las mech - so, I lose two lasers, have lots more durability and the same cooling profile...

I'm not trying to invalidate your experience or your advice. I really do appreciate the article you wrote. It was quite enlightening. I just know me enough to know that STD engines are better for me.

[Spheroid]

You need to drop the engine for more heatsinks.

[Bassie]

I ran the 1x with a std 280 and 8 spl. Never loooked back.

My fave is the 1 with an ac20. I use an xl220, but that was bc I had one rather than it being the best. Bj's have small side torsos, suit an xl, but horses for courses I guess.

[BodakOfSseth]

Yeah, I've got two CTFs with AC20s and 4x MLas. I'm quite pleased with them, but don't want to have yet another mech with something close to that build.
The AC2/Dakka build looks fun, but too much face time means death for the BJ-chassis, and AC2 seems like not enough damage for poking.

8x SmPLas? that's an idea. Does it handle the speed enough to get decent damage in?
I assume the 280 is to accommodate more DHS?

[Nullmancer]

the trick with the BJ-2 stock weapon build and facetime to is fire the AC 2's along with your med lasers, then get back into cover/reposition/don't-just-stand-there-ACing. Also, distant targets are pretty much a waste of ammo, but you can irritate people doing it .

You really want to be using the AC 2's alongside your med laser's most times. Alpha only when you can spare the heat, otherwise fire the arm med lasers with the AC's most of the time and add the torso med lasers when you can risk it, but be wary of the heatspike.

In good cover though, pound away until it becomes unsafe to do so. The importance of the enemy damage readout and focus firing goes without saying, but if you see a chance to suppress an enemy and it may give an edge, switch away and shoot at their cockpit/exposed areas to discourage them or get their attention. They may back off or they may switch to you, and so, you're sharing your armor with the team and you've also stopped them from focusing entirely on your teammate.


Seriously though, try not to be brawling all the time, seriously, the BJ's cannot cool enough or are agile enough for any kind of sustained close combat. But in lower tiers you can probably get away with it.

The BJ is best acting as fire support into a engagement, let your bigger buddies tank, while you pay close attention to the enemy's weak spots and destroy components.


that SPL BJ-1X though, I don't doubt the power of 8 SPL's at all, but the lack of range is worrying.



A last thing on the XL engine, you are already fighting tier 1's in tier 3, and it will only get worse as you rank up as the lower tier's become unavailable to your matchmaking bucket. I'm not pushing XL's on you but I am pointing out that you can't really wait til you hit tier 1 to worry about optimizing your builds to a high degree of efficiency.

I do understand also your desire to not worry about insta-death with a torso loss, and honestly, with the amount of hardpoints the BJ-1X has, it is a good candidate for a standard engine. The suggestion to downrate your engine for more heatsinks is a good one if your running a standard.

BJ-1X?

Edited by Nullmancer, 15 November 2016 - 10:50 AM.

[BodakOfSseth]

So I ended up getting the 1X, and went with this build.
6xMLas 2xSLas
I'm determined to stick with the Std engine, because in at least half my games I lose my side torso, but can survive and contribute to the end of the game. I think this is a much better result than being removed entirely from the game for the loss of a ST.
Besides, I keep running into dual gauss snipers - which really suck.

I am a little annoyed about the 1/2 ton remaining, but can't figure out how to claim that space.
The engine sizes are awkward, and losing a half ton of armor to add a DHS seems pretty significant.

[epikt]

You can upgrade to a 280STD for 0.5t.
I also suggest you place the DHS in the arms to protect your lasers from critical hits.

[Nullmancer]

I can see your build working out, only quibble I have is moving a tad more armor to your front torso's.

I also agree on uprating the engine to use that extra half ton, but I also suggest the option of shaving a half ton armor and installing another heatsink, you could potentially put in a bigger engine as well, if you feel you need the speed.

[BodakOfSseth]

Nullmancer, on 17 November 2016 - 11:31 AM, said:

I can see your build working out, only quibble I have is moving a tad more armor to your front torso's.

I also agree on uprating the engine to use that extra half ton, but I also suggest the option of shaving a half ton armor and installing another heatsink, you could potentially put in a bigger engine as well, if you feel you need the speed.

I apparently missed that engine. thanks
As for moving the DHS to the arm, I've lost my arm before the torso maybe 3 times in over 150 Blackjack drops, so, there's no point. The BJ arms really don't shield at all.

Edited by ScottAleric, 18 November 2016 - 08:40 AM.

[epikt]

ScottAleric, on 18 November 2016 - 08:39 AM, said:

As for moving the DHS to the arm, I've lost my arm before the torso maybe 3 times in over 150 Blackjack drops, so, there's no point. The BJ arms really don't shield at all.

It's not about losing your arm or not, but about, if your arm is open and suffer a critical hit, losing a DHS instead of a laser.

[B0oN]

If in doubt, take BJ3 and poptart like its 2014

[Nullmancer]

B0oN, on 18 November 2016 - 11:02 AM, said:

If in doubt, take BJ3 and poptart like its 2014 2016

[justcallme A S H]

This is my BJ1X

I run it in Faction Play a lot, also does quite well in QP. Don't be fooled by the low alpha. You are constantly streaming laser fire, you must use the speed to the advantage though as you are a bit fragile. You can move the torso laser to the arm for a better poke but I find it doesn't matter so much.

2 x LL is basically heat neutral. So you can really be a PIA with it.

Edited by justcallme A S H, 18 November 2016 - 05:23 PM.

[BodakOfSseth]

epikt, on 18 November 2016 - 09:40 AM, said:

It's not about losing your arm or not, but about, if your arm is open and suffer a critical hit, losing a DHS instead of a laser.

I get that - I'm saying my arms almost never get hit.