139 replies to this topic

[Dee Eight]

MG's were especially deadly in TT at close range because of the random hit-location tables. Two of the possible dice results (double 1s and double 6s) were head and torso (critical). A lot of MG's firing and hitting meant a lot of chances to roll boxcars or snake-eyes.

[Dee Eight]

Prosperity Park, on 14 November 2016 - 09:01 PM, said:

A question to all you so-called-experts on MachineGuns.

Please tell me when MachineGUns were added to TT and when Infantry was added.

Then, tell me how well MWO's MachineGuns are balanced against the Infantry units that are currently featured in MWO.

MGs were in tabletop from the very start of Battletech in 1984. Infantry and rules for them didn't join the game until Citytech in 1986. Of the original 15 mechs in the original battletech boxed set, the stinger, locust, battlemaster, chameleon, phoenix hawk, and warhammer all mounted a pair of MGs.

Do also remember that regular autocannon 2s and 5s are supposed to have a MINIMUM range just like LRMs and PPCs. As are UAC/5s (IS), UAC/2s (Clan and IS), LB-2X and LB-5X and Gauss Rifles. PGI conveniently ignored that fact for MWO.

Edited by Dee Eight, 15 November 2016 - 07:14 AM.

[Felicitatem Parco]

Dee Eight, on 15 November 2016 - 07:04 AM, said:

MGs were in tabletop from the very start of Battletech in 1984. Infantry and rules for them didn't join the game until Citytech in 1986. Of the original 15 mechs in the original battletech boxed set, the stinger, locust, battlemaster, chameleon, phoenix hawk, and warhammer all mounted a pair of MGs.

Do also remember that regular autocannon 2s and 5s are supposed to have a MINIMUM range just like LRMs and PPCs. As are UAC/5s (IS), UAC/2s (Clan and IS), LB-2X and LB-5X and Gauss Rifles. PGI conveniently ignored that fact for MWO.

Thank you. MGs are anti-Mech weapons. Issue settled.

[Gentleman Reaper]

FupDup, on 14 November 2016 - 10:02 PM, said:

The thing about their range is that it's impacted by the CoF spread...just increasing their range to 300/600 wouldn't help at all because your bullets would spread out worse than LBX pellets.

Yea sorry, I forgot to mention that too. I'm actually making a dream weapon stats chart that I'll eventually post on the forums.

[Metus regem]

N0MAD, on 14 November 2016 - 05:53 PM, said:

Why would you expect an MG to be useful against an armored vehicle? really why? and if so why not have a magic wand? its about as realistic as having an MG be useful against armor.

The MG's in Battle-tech, are not 7.62mm GPMG's or even .50cal MG's... they are 20-30mm... You do know that 20mm is used against lite vehicles, infantry and aircraft right? 30mm can and is used against tanks to great effect.... I mean do keep in mind, counting feed, mounts and weapon a MG weighs in at 1,000 pounds in Battle Tech, let me put that into persenctive:



That above is a 25mm cannon.

Here is a 30mm cannon that can be used to take out tanks:




Both of those weapons would be classified as MG's in Battle Tech.

Edited by Metus regem, 15 November 2016 - 08:12 AM.

[Weaselball]

I love how the entirety of the argument(s) AGAINST buffing machine guns is "they aren't supposed to damage mechs in lore," when the only cold-hard data (read, facts, not your juxtapositions) is that machine guns do 2 points of damage to a mech, the same exact amount as an autocannon-2, and 2/3 the damage of a small laser. Currently in MWO they do significantly less than both.

If this game was balanced around lore, or battletech, 100% to the letter, then we would all be firing our weapons once every ten seconds, there would be absolutely zero convergence (the opposite actually, weapons would have randomized spread), and no innersphere mech would be able to swap out engines or weapons to the same degree we can now. So just stop with that dead horse argument. Stop.

Light mechs and light mediums NEED a good use for multiple (or any) ballistic slots. At the moment the only choice they have are to use machine guns, but it almost feels punishing to use them--because it is.

EDIT:

Also, let's not forget how AWESOME these weapons are at crit-seeking. Yay. So I might not be able to kill a mech after holding down three machine guns on it for 6 whole seconds in a brawl, face tanking it like a champ, but I might be able to knock out a double heat sink or two. Such a rewarding weapon.

Edited by Weaselball, 15 November 2016 - 08:17 AM.

[Lucian Nostra]

TheLuc, on 15 November 2016 - 04:24 AM, said:

This weapon for the A-10 Warthog airplane is 1.9 tons with no ammo in it, with a fire rate of 70 shots per second and its closer to a BT small size rotary autocannon than a machine gun which we don't have in MWO. BTs machine guns are closer to, lets say a oversized M2 Browning ( pictured below )



Now that for the MWO machine guns, I too would like a little boost of damage for them but as it stand its just the kind of weapon to fire with something else. MGs are not meant to be stand alone weapons and I'm okay with that too.

Did you read the picture before posting it? 3968 pounds with MAGAZINE & drive mechanism installed. the actual weapon system runs like 620 pounds (.31 tons), with drive system and full ammo load its about 4000

at .5 tons BT MGs weigh more than the fabled tank killer 30mm, loaded up it with ammo it's less but so is every ammo in BT vs real life ammo (for instance even a small stinger missile weighs 22 pounds vs an LRM weighing 16)

Edited by Lucian Nostra, 15 November 2016 - 08:27 AM.

[HammerMaster]

The Battletech Machine gun IS NOT A .50 cal. it is a 20mm and 30mm weapon. Machine gun is a misnomer. It is an effective Light Mech weapon and has BONUS 2d6 dmg vs infantry (as in it takes out 2d6 troopers). STOP IT. STOP it. It IS a MECH machine gun. Do some reading.
http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Machine_Gun
zero heat
1/2/3 range.
2 dmg

[Lyoto Machida]

You know the people over at PGI probably think we're mental patients, right?

"Those guys on the forums keep talking to themselves when they know we're not listening...crazy."

[Bud Crue]

Okay, would you people stop posting with the real life analogies.

Please.

This is game is so far removed from real life that such analogies are not only irrelevant but downright, well, silly and utterly unproductive.

[McMurl]

I personally think MGs would be used far more if they had a much longer range. In MW4, Light MGs had a range of 600m. They did terrible damage, but they were brought to fill slots and could hit **** at long range. Increase the range to 500m or more, and then watch as they actually become incredibly useful and used loads. Long range crit seaking only weapons? yes please!

[CaptainScumBa11s]

They cannot romove the cone of fire from the machine gun. If they do then we have no proof left about being able to add it to the other weapons like they say they can't.

[Felicitatem Parco]

Wow. So much Wrong.

The 20mm and 30mm autocannons cited above have ranges that exceed 1000m.

Battletech Machineguns have a range of 100-200m. That cannot be large-caliber autocannon. They have the effective range of a high-powered Crossman pellet rifle. So, BT Machineguns are pellet guns.

If you want to be really, really generous, then you can say BT Machineguns fire .22 Short.

Edited by Prosperity Park, 15 November 2016 - 09:54 AM.

[Weaselball]

Bud Crue, on 15 November 2016 - 08:35 AM, said:

Okay, would you people stop posting with the real life analogies.

Please.

This is game is so far removed from real life that such analogies are not only irrelevant but downright, well, silly and utterly unproductive.

This. One thousand times this. While everyone that seems against machine gun buffs argues that "machine guns in real life can only do yadda yadda" I'll be over here shooting off some particle projectile cannons into a one hundred ton mech shaped to look like a giant bear that is flying (hovering) through the air on rocket jets... on an asteroid moon... that we got to by folding space with a jumpship using a light-sail as a method of propulsion.

[Jetfire]

would like to see on the PTU a test day with 2 DPS MG's with no COF and no crit multipliers.

[Dogstar]

>Wow. So much Wrong.
Just $%^& off, it's a game, there are no 'real world' analogs of BT MGs

Also trying to compare BT with real world physics on a forum for the game just makes you another one of the countless idiots who don't understand game design either computer or board. As penalty you've lost the right to be treated like an adult for the next week. Further offenses will only extend the penalty period.

[Metus regem]

Jetfire, on 15 November 2016 - 10:16 AM, said:

would like to see on the PTU a test day with 2 DPS MG's with no COF and no crit multipliers.

I'd settle for the same DPS as small lasers honestly (1DPS)... I mean a small laser + DHS

[Felicitatem Parco]

Dogstar, on 15 November 2016 - 10:23 AM, said:

>Wow. So much Wrong.
Just $%^& off, it's a game, there are no 'real world' analogs of BT MGs

Also trying to compare BT with real world physics on a forum for the game just makes you another one of the countless idiots who don't understand game design either computer or board. As penalty you've lost the right to be treated like an adult for the next week. Further offenses will only extend the penalty period.

You do realize I was ripping on the people making real-world analogies, right?

[Chuck Jager]

If I remember correctly the nerf came out at about the same time as folks started to macro the MG to 1-3ms. Since the weapon has no cooldown, the fire rate basically doubled - you are bypassing the fire rate and doing all first shots really fast. I tried doing this in the test grounds and the macro does go through ammo faster, but I do not know if this is still in the live battles or if there is a damage limiter. PGI knew about this and did not label it an exploit or if it is locked/funky code that can not be fixed etc etc. (could also be tin foil hat theory)

The output on anything sub 4mgs is still less than a ml in the flow of combat. Many games I am in, one team will be down by 4-6 mechs before I can get within range to use them. The weight penalty for IS mg hurts the light mechs more. It seems 2 flamers is better if you got the hardpoints.

[FupDup]

Prosperity Park, on 15 November 2016 - 09:52 AM, said:

Wow. So much Wrong.

The 20mm and 30mm autocannons cited above have ranges that exceed 1000m.

Battletech Machineguns have a range of 100-200m. That cannot be large-caliber autocannon. They have the effective range of a high-powered Crossman pellet rifle. So, BT Machineguns are pellet guns.

If you want to be really, really generous, then you can say BT Machineguns fire .22 Short.

If you want to criticize MG range, you're going to also have to criticize the range of literally every other weapon.

For example, why do "Long Range" Missiles only go out to 630 meters in the lore?