49 replies to this topic

[The Unstoppable Puggernaut]

Baulven, on 16 November 2016 - 01:55 PM, said:

That's the thing. I don't mind then trying to fix the KDK-3, but their nuke the site from orbit ******** needs to stop. The KDK-5 does not touch people in has spots, so why did it need a nerf?

While I agree with you, it just seemed like a quick/lazy approach. I think they felt too many people were riding the Kodiaks and leaving the other clan assaults behind. Personally I love the Direwolf and the Exe but the first is too slow and dies, and the second is a bit of a one trick pony. I am not including the Gargoyle as I dont know what category it's suppose to fall into except the fail bucket. Warhawk is ok but it's more of a missle boat which I rarely use.

Really dissapointed about the Spirit bear as I might have to take the PPC's off as I cannot shoot and run into cover any more.
These restrictions feel like a bad accident and I am wearing a neckbrace.

[lazytopaz]

I ain't gonna add anything to the kettle.

I think for a change I'll take a different approach.

So we have another blanket nerf patched into the game. What can we do about it?
Does anything other than direct tweet to Russ get any sort of response and/or constructive explanation/dialogue to resolve the matter differently?
Can we really do anything about it?

[Goober Gabber v2]

In all honesty, it's a shame how the other Kodiak variants have been smacked on the head while the KDK-3 is the culprit of it all.
I have encountered the KDK-2, 4 and 5 not more than once or twice, ever since the Kodiak hype died down. Finding them in a match is almost as rare as winning a lottery. Even the Spirit Bear is almost extinct now.

I have played the KDK-3 with Quad UAC10 myself, and after the fifth round I just couldn't stand the feeling like I'm comitting a galactic war crime any longer. Seeing how inexperienced I was back then and still managing to wipe out a quarter of the enemy's team with barely any effort, is just wrong.
I decided to move over to the Quad Gauss mainly because I love the gauss weapon and it feels much more rewarding to cripple enemies (be it damaging armor or even destroy components) on a distance so the rest of my team will have less trouble taking them out.
The Spirit Bear is a good mech to brawl with, but I'm not someone who likes getting into the fray, so I decided to make an LRM bear out of it with 3xlrm15, 1xlrm10 and 2xerll, and noticed I did much better than when I was going as a Splat bear, despite the fact some of my team mates picked on me for running an SB with 55 lurms.

My experience with the KDK-1, 2, 4 and 5?
KDK-1: It's a good mech as an energy boat, if you know how to manage heat unlike me.
KDK-2: We don't look eachother in the eyes anymore.
KDK-4 & 5: They kinda feel the same as the 1 and 2.

What really makes my blood boil is the fact PGI dares to say "the Kodiak in general is overperforming across the board", which is pure asspull in my opinion. In every match I've been so far, I've yet to see a Kodiak, that isn't the massmurdering KDK-3 (I'm keeping the SB out of this because even the SB isn't as game-breaking as the 3), dominate the field without putting itself at a high risk with minimum effort.
This so-called 'overperforming across the board' statement even made me stop taking my Lurm SB and Gauss KDK-3 into battle. Not because of the torso turn degrees nerf, but because PGI made me nearly vomit with the fact they think all Kodiaks are 'better than the rest'.

TL;DR:
In my opinion, PGI's decision on ruining the mechs, which already are barely used, just because their bullying brother KDK-3 doesn't know when to stop, made me stop using the Kodiaks which were my favorite since day one but got pushed aside by the 3.

[FupDup]

Duke Nedo, on 16 November 2016 - 03:09 AM, said:

Nah, all UAC users got their DPS nerfed by 10-15%. No more no less, no matter how many you equip.

Pretty sure the best KDK-3 build uses 2 Gauss + 2 ERPPCs anyways.

[Duke Nedo]

FupDup, on 18 November 2016 - 08:34 AM, said:

Pretty sure lbs the best KDK-3 build uses 2 Gauss + 2 ERPPCs anyways.

Yes.

[Rayden Wolf]

The Unstoppable Puggernaut, on 18 November 2016 - 06:03 AM, said:

While I agree with you, it just seemed like a quick/lazy approach. I think they felt too many people were riding the Kodiaks and leaving the other clan assaults behind. Personally I love the Direwolf and the Exe but the first is too slow and dies, and the second is a bit of a one trick pony. I am not including the Gargoyle as I dont know what category it's suppose to fall into except the fail bucket. Warhawk is ok but it's more of a missle boat which I rarely use.

Really dissapointed about the Spirit bear as I might have to take the PPC's off as I cannot shoot and run into cover any more.
These restrictions feel like a bad accident and I am wearing a neckbrace.

But why is everyone and his mother piloting Kodiaks? Because its the only fun and usefull clan assualt out there. The Exe is fun to play but the podspace is soooo limited. You can bring the same loadouts in a HBK IIC or TBR or SCR. To many tonage wasting for JJ and other locked stuff.
And the Dire gameplay is...just awfull. It needs an hour to turn arround. No fun in sight.
Gargoyle? Cant say, never played one. Just arm-mounted weapons except the Prime and D CT. And thats the last thing i wanna have in an assault. Lacks of podspace too.
The only fun and viable assault left is the Warhawk. Again. But the mech lacks of free slots and also have locked equipment.

I'll have a break till the MAD IIC arrives. Maybe PGI should stop introducing Clan-Assaults above 90t. Dosn't work it seems.

Oh, didnt think about the Highlanders. The IIC C is a fun one(or it was, maybe the UAC nerf hit his balls too). But it needs huge quirks to do well. Before the quirks, the chassie was simply slow and slugish and a pain to pilot.

[Ebins]

One of my favorite mechs was a Hellbringer with 1 UAC20 and 4 ER Mediums. Guess what? I can't use it anymore. The UAC is almost constantly red and the 4 ER mediums, I might as well be piloting a light with just a tad bit more armor. Yes, I have the KDK mech package. I enjoyed it. No, I haven't touched a single KDK since the nerf, not even the SB. Oh yeah, I used to run a lot of dakka builds - mostly one UAC backed up with other weapons. Those are no good anymore. I've now switched over to a Night Gyr using LBX AC's for when the need for dakka arises.

If PGI is going to continue to nerf clan mechs back to the level of the inner sphere, can they at least lower the c-bill cost for them?

[Requiemking]

Ebins, on 19 November 2016 - 12:26 AM, said:

One of my favorite mechs was a Hellbringer with 1 UAC20 and 4 ER Mediums. Guess what? I can't use it anymore. The UAC is almost constantly red and the 4 ER mediums, I might as well be piloting a light with just a tad bit more armor. Yes, I have the KDK mech package. I enjoyed it. No, I haven't touched a single KDK since the nerf, not even the SB. Oh yeah, I used to run a lot of dakka builds - mostly one UAC backed up with other weapons. Those are no good anymore. I've now switched over to a Night Gyr using LBX AC's for when the need for dakka arises.

If PGI is going to continue to nerf clan mechs back to the level of the inner sphere, can they at least lower the c-bill cost for them?

They won't. Believe me, people have been asking for prices on Clan mechs to be lowered for a while now. Hell, even reinstating the "deal of the week" would awesome, as long as the price reduction makes it worthwhile. As for UACs, never liked 'em. Oh, don't get me wrong, I know that they used to be good weapons. I just found them extremely unreliable and rather pointless compared to LBX brawling. Hell, the LB2X is basically an IS AC2 with all the benefits of being an LBX AC. And the KDKs? My sentiments are pretty much the same as everyone else's. Pointless on the 3, ruined the others.

[Zergling]

Rayden Wolf, on 18 November 2016 - 09:33 AM, said:

But why is everyone and his mother piloting Kodiaks? Because its the only fun and usefull clan assualt out there. The Exe is fun to play but the podspace is soooo limited. You can bring the same loadouts in a HBK IIC or TBR or SCR. To many tonage wasting for JJ and other locked stuff.
And the Dire gameplay is...just awfull. It needs an hour to turn arround. No fun in sight.
Gargoyle? Cant say, never played one. Just arm-mounted weapons except the Prime and D CT. And thats the last thing i wanna have in an assault. Lacks of podspace too.
The only fun and viable assault left is the Warhawk. Again. But the mech lacks of free slots and also have locked equipment.

I'll have a break till the MAD IIC arrives. Maybe PGI should stop introducing Clan-Assaults above 90t. Dosn't work it seems.

Oh, didnt think about the Highlanders. The IIC C is a fun one(or it was, maybe the UAC nerf hit his balls too). But it needs huge quirks to do well. Before the quirks, the chassie was simply slow and slugish and a pain to pilot.

Oh please, the Warhawk is an excellent mech.







For a potato like me, that performance is extremely good.


This thread has way too much salted potatoes in it. The KDK-3 wasn't significantly hurt by the nerfs, and neither were the other KDKs.
The other KDKs are solid performers, at least as good or better than the Warhawk; there is nothing to complain about there.

Edited by Zergling, 19 November 2016 - 01:34 AM.

[Sjorpha]

Before the patch the gauss/ppc build was a little stronger than the dakka build. Now it's a lot stronger. But both builds are still handily defending the title of best assault mech in the game, but there is no real reason to go dakka over gauss/peep anymore apart from just enjoying dakka (which is a good reason of course.)

The other variants are all still strong mechs in fact. there is no reason to whine about them because none of them are weak. The reason you don't see them is the same reason to never see a thunderbolt 5S, because the 9SE and 5SS are so much better. This is the case for many mechs. They have variants that are very rare while still being good mechs, just because another variant is significantly better, or just slightly better at the same thing. People tend to pick first a mech, then the best variant for what they want to do, this leads to redundant variants that are "never seen", doesn't mean those variants are weak mechs.

No mech was "ruined" or "nerfed into the ground" or anything of the sort by this patch. Clan UACs became mediocre weapons instead of good, but maybe that's a part of a general trend to bring all weapons down a bit to balance with IS and bring down TTK, and if that's true it can be a good thing.

[Hans Brackhaus]

Rayden Wolf, on 18 November 2016 - 09:33 AM, said:

Oh, didnt think about the Highlanders. The IIC C is a fun one(or it was, maybe the UAC nerf hit his balls too). But it needs huge quirks to do well. Before the quirks, the chassie was simply slow and slugish and a pain to pilot.

I'm still enjoying mine with the dual UAC 10s. I've been running it a lot since the patch and haven't noticed a significant increase in jamming. I think I've only had both jam at the same time maybe once. But I admit that I'm fairly conservative when it comes to double-tapping so YMMV.

The extended jam time is painfully noticeable, though, but its not enough to ruin the mech for me.

In regards to the Kodiak, I've seen less of them and a greater variety of other assaults since the patch. But when I do see a KDK-3 it's still wrecking things as always and being on the receiving end is still as painful as it always was. I figure the lesser number of Kodiaks is a knee-jerk reaction to the nerfs and when it passes the 3 will return to dominance.

[Requiemking]

Zergling, on 19 November 2016 - 01:32 AM, said:

This thread has way too much salted potatoes in it. The KDK-3 wasn't significantly hurt by the nerfs, and neither were the other KDKs.
The other KDKs are solid performers, at least as good or better than the Warhawk; there is nothing to complain about there.

WHAT? You are pretty much incorrect. KDK-3 wasn't hurt, but thats because it's primary build is the ERPPC/Gauss Pokebear. All the others, who are mid- to close-range in nature, have been severely neutered becuase fo the twist nerfs.

[Revis Volek]

Baulven, on 16 November 2016 - 03:07 AM, said:

I said there would be no meaningful change to the KDK3 with the proposed changes and the other variants would feel it a hell of a lot more, and so far top tier players are posting results with negligible changes to their numbers.

So the question is can we actually SPECIFICALLY talk about any future adjustments to just the three? I would really love to be able to use something other than that stupid chassis after the year ends.

You must not be paying much attentions, ERPPC/Gauss is the way to go now. There is no sense is gimping yourself when other loadouts do it better with less downsides.

The big hit was to mechs with ran Single UAC10's or 20's they are nerfed dar worse then the KDK or DWF were because PGI doesnt understand the words BLANKEY NERF and think nerfing weapons every chassis uses hurts the mechs that are the best in them ONLY.

PGI doesnt understand how to balance, plain and simple.

[Revis Volek]

Zergling, on 19 November 2016 - 01:32 AM, said:

Oh please, the Warhawk is an excellent mech.







For a potato like me, that performance is extremely good.


This thread has way too much salted potatoes in it. The KDK-3 wasn't significantly hurt by the nerfs, and neither were the other KDKs.
The other KDKs are solid performers, at least as good or better than the Warhawk; there is nothing to complain about there.

NO one said the WHK was terrible (or any more so then before) he said its main build which he used was nerfed and he is correct. It hurt it, but my triple ERPPC Gauss WHK has no issues. I even still run Triple LPL and 2 Med pulse which hasnt been changed in years.

Reading comprehension fail it would seem. And why would anyone take the advice from a self proclaimed potatoe? I would need to see more then ONE MATCH for me to claim that a mech or build was good.

Show me the next 50 matches in that thing without cherry picking the best results and we will get a better idea of where the mech and build sits.

Edited by Revis Volek, 19 November 2016 - 09:06 AM.

[Gas Guzzler]

Revis Volek, on 19 November 2016 - 09:03 AM, said:

NO one said the WHK was terrible (or any more so then before) he said its main build which he used was nerfed and he is correct. It hurt it, but my triple ERPPC Gauss WHK has no issues. I even still run Triple LPL and 2 Med pulse which hasnt been changed in years.

Reading comprehension fail it would seem. And why would anyone take the advice a self proclaimed potatoe? I would need to see more then ONE MATCH for me to claim that a mech or build was good.

Show me the next 50 matches in that thing without cherry picking the best results and we will get a better idea of where the mech and build sits.

With that new Hero you can run a dual UAC10 build along with lasers or PPCs. If they hadn't nerfed UAC10s I might have actually got it.

[Revis Volek]

Gas Guzzler, on 19 November 2016 - 09:06 AM, said:

With that new Hero you can run a dual UAC10 build along with lasers or PPCs. If they hadn't nerfed UAC10s I might have actually got it.

You could do that before(kinda), We have WHK-C with CT E hardpoint and the WHK B left Arm with One E and One B hard point. Couple that with the A Right arm and you have a 2 E, 2 B hardpoint WHK. Granted the E hardpoints are kinda weird and the Clan Hero might make that and even easier to run build. Im not sure where the hardpoints are honeslty i bet in the arms like every other Peave Dove.

2x UAC 10 and 3x SRMs 6's w/ Art. was the best build i has seen for the PeaceDove in a long time, its kinda dead now though so i went back to the 3x ERPPC Single Gauss poke build but it doesnt do it better then the KDK 3.

[Dee Eight]

Goober Gabber v2, on 18 November 2016 - 08:21 AM, said:

I have played the KDK-3 with Quad UAC10 myself, and after the fifth round I just couldn't stand the feeling like I'm comitting a galactic war crime any longer.

War crimes are only ever applied to the losers in a conflict. That's why the USA never gets its leaders charged with them, and why in particular, the US Government wasn't in favour of the international world court's creation, and doesn't recognise its authority at all.

[Zergling]

Requiemking, on 19 November 2016 - 08:50 AM, said:

WHAT? You are pretty much incorrect. KDK-3 wasn't hurt, but thats because it's primary build is the ERPPC/Gauss Pokebear. All the others, who are mid- to close-range in nature, have been severely neutered becuase fo the twist nerfs.

The KDK-3 dakka built wasn't significantly hurt either, because the number of UACs means it isn't harmed as much by jamming.
Hell, it doesn't even have to double-tap and it still has excellent DPS.

And I seriously doubt the other KDKs were hurt to be worse than the Warhawk; they are still substantially more durable with greater firepower and similar mobility.

Revis Volek, on 19 November 2016 - 09:03 AM, said:

NO one said the WHK was terrible (or any more so then before) he said its main build which he used was nerfed and he is correct. It hurt it, but my triple ERPPC Gauss WHK has no issues. I even still run Triple LPL and 2 Med pulse which hasnt been changed in years.

Reading comprehension fail it would seem.

I reference this quote:

Rayden Wolf, on 18 November 2016 - 09:33 AM, said:

But why is everyone and his mother piloting Kodiaks? Because its the only fun and usefull clan assualt out there.

You may have later said:

Rayden Wolf, on 18 November 2016 - 09:33 AM, said:

The only fun and viable assault left is the Warhawk. Again. But the mech lacks of free slots and also have locked equipment.

But you put caveats on the Warhawk being a good mech.

Revis Volek, on 19 November 2016 - 09:03 AM, said:

And why would anyone take the advice from a self proclaimed potatoe?

Because if a potato like me is able to produce results far above my normal averages in the Warhawk, it is actually a great mech.

Revis Volek, on 19 November 2016 - 09:03 AM, said:

I would need to see more then ONE MATCH for me to claim that a mech or build was good.

Show me the next 50 matches in that thing without cherry picking the best results and we will get a better idea of where the mech and build sits.

I have other high scoring battles in my Warhawk, but the Nanuq is the only one I'm playing atm. I'll post stats again when I finish mastering it.

I expect my stats to go down in the Nanuq, but I would be surprised if they drop below 450 damage/battle, which is what I was achieving in my 4x large pulse Hellslinger.

Edited by Zergling, 19 November 2016 - 01:49 PM.

[Templar Dane]

Zergling, on 19 November 2016 - 01:32 AM, said:

Oh please, the Warhawk is an excellent mech.







For a potato like me, that performance is extremely good.


This thread has way too much salted potatoes in it. The KDK-3 wasn't significantly hurt by the nerfs, and neither were the other KDKs.
The other KDKs are solid performers, at least as good or better than the Warhawk; there is nothing to complain about there.

Because 32 games worth of data is definitive proof that a mech does or does not suck.

[Zergling]

Templar Dane, on 19 November 2016 - 02:15 PM, said:

Because 32 games worth of data is definitive proof that a mech does or does not suck.

By 30 games, the stats aren't gonna vary by a huge amount from that point onwards.

At least, not in my experience.

Edited by Zergling, 19 November 2016 - 02:25 PM.