90 replies to this topic

[kakusaretaneko]

Something of an aside as a potential alternative to assist the MM forming groups, when in queue and going for a queue much in the same way that CW/FW does, having a list of all of the other groups and sizes in queue would mean we could manually attempt to assist the formation of matches - if there are 10, 10 mans but zero two man groups for example, and several three man groups - and yes the group player base does get small enough to make that a realistic scenario, sadly - having access to that information would allow us to manually fix group sizes to fit into games. Not necessarily an elegant solution but it would at least give the people actively trying to get a match a chance to do so.

As an aside I have run out of Jeeves and Wooster to watch while waiting for drops, anyone have a good series to watch while in queue?

[C E Dwyer]

I'd be in favour of it, and would use the feature

[Pahrias]

voted yes, just because trying to drop with 2-4 guys seems to take forever!

gives me an idea, however. How about merging the queues but have the matchmaker put similar sized groups against each other with solos padding out the drop as needed.

For example: you and your buddy want to group up, so you launch as a 2 man group. the MM would then find another 2-3 man group and pad the rest with pugs. obviously this would have to be limited to one "grouped" squad per side. or you'd get 3x 4mans against one 2man and pugs.

just a thought sorry if some one mentioned it earlier, only read the first page.

[FREDtheROLF]

If this goes live. What will happen is all matches in group que will be

1 or 2 groups of n player + up to 10 solo players (worst case)
and this will be as in solo que.

As of today solo pug and group pug play different.
in group (que) pug you will only seldom find a solo, left hind, fancy, I do my own **** player. there will alway be a second one.
And as ppl stated in this threat "I will activate that option by default" group que will feel like solo que in the future.

sorry I still vote for

DON'T EVEN THINK ABOUT IT!!!!!!

FtR

[Liveish]

FREDtheROLF, on 22 November 2016 - 07:49 AM, said:

If this goes live. What will happen is all matches in group que will be

1 or 2 groups of n player + up to 10 solo players (worst case)
and this will be as in solo que.

As of today solo pug and group pug play different.
in group (que) pug you will only seldom find a solo, left hind, fancy, I do my own **** player. there will alway be a second one.
And as ppl stated in this threat "I will activate that option by default" group que will feel like solo que in the future.

sorry I still vote for

DON'T EVEN THINK ABOUT IT!!!!!!

FtR

Other people have said limiting it to 1 - 2 solo players per side would work best to stop that problem and also help MM at the same time.

[kakusaretaneko]

FREDtheROLF, on 22 November 2016 - 07:49 AM, said:

If this goes live. What will happen is all matches in group que will be

1 or 2 groups of n player + up to 10 solo players (worst case)
and this will be as in solo que.

As of today solo pug and group pug play different.
in group (que) pug you will only seldom find a solo, left hind, fancy, I do my own **** player. there will alway be a second one.
And as ppl stated in this threat "I will activate that option by default" group que will feel like solo que in the future.

sorry I still vote for

DON'T EVEN THINK ABOUT IT!!!!!!

FtR

I feel like this reasoning implies that there is zero weighting and only one or two groups on at any given time... more reaslistically there are several groups that happen to not jigsaw into a full group, a 7, a 10, a 9, a 4, a 6 and a 3 for example*, 3 and 9 can form a 12 but what about the rest?

There have been dozens of evenings where after getting a drop, we consistently drop against literally the exact same other group, or when the groups allow a mix of the same 24 people until someone quits and suddenly were in limbo, the extremely specific requirements no longer being met in a small pool of players. During peak times this is simply not going to come into effect, or rarely at least, so those times remain unaffected - of which several people have spoken up. The requirements to jigsaw groups together are likely to be relatively small most of the time, or there could be limits on how many solo players are drafted, so again unlikely to negatively affect the solo queue, and finally having a drop with people who have opt'd into group drops suggests that they are at least willing to try to follow the general group movement. I see this a great deal in CW/FW where a larger group drops and smaller groups/soloers will follow their calls - for better or worse - so cannot see how this will suddenly, magically no longer be the case, when people are specifically allowing themselves to be put into that position (ignoring trolling, obviously).


*just some random figures for the sake of example, so there could be a way to jig them into place.

[Liveish]

Never post in this section of the forum before, how does this work, how do we get a buy in from PGI ? or PGI to respond if its doable or what problems they see ?

[old man odin]

FREDtheROLF, on 22 November 2016 - 07:49 AM, said:

If this goes live. What will happen is all matches in group que will be

1 or 2 groups of n player + up to 10 solo players (worst case)
and this will be as in solo que.

As of today solo pug and group pug play different.
in group (que) pug you will only seldom find a solo, left hind, fancy, I do my own **** player. there will alway be a second one.
And as ppl stated in this threat "I will activate that option by default" group que will feel like solo que in the future.

sorry I still vote for

DON'T EVEN THINK ABOUT IT!!!!!!

FtR

Did you have a stroke while writing this?

[Mahnmut]

live1991, on 24 November 2016 - 07:28 PM, said:

Never post in this section of the forum before, how does this work, how do we get a buy in from PGI ? or PGI to respond if its doable or what problems they see ?

Haha. No Live. This is where great ideas come to die.

[Liveish]

Mahnmut, on 26 November 2016 - 03:41 PM, said:

Haha. No Live. This is where great ideas come to die.

I still have a little faith left that PGI reads there own forums

[Ram71]

I hope they do.

[Ibrandul Mike]

Voted too...
Even if I wouldn't activate it myself most of the time... I can see its value for the OC players. For others it might be good... might not be good... but yeah... it is a team game after all...

But please limited to a max of 2 (in bad times perhaps up to 4? would need to be tested) Solo players per team. And deactivated from start so that it really has to be activated manually.

[Ranger Dave]

For peoples worried that this might drain solo que, the vibe I'm getting is the opt in would be used a dam breaker only.
Also, a proportion of people in solo queue are only there because they;
a) are waiting in LFG for a pick up, but noone is building a LFG lobby right now
b. were in group queue but couldn't get games because their group didn't fit the group queue jigsaw
c) dropped from a group so it wouldn't be stuck at 11
d) some other thing I can't think of right now...
These folks are all artificially inflating the solo queue and would much rather be in group queue.

An opt in increases that chance to make them happy.
An opt in means the odd groups not fitting into the jigsaw are happy.
An opt in means groups of 11 can be happy.
Most importantly, an opt in makes friend matchmaking computer happy.
You want them to be happy, right?

Edited by Ranger Dave, 26 January 2017 - 09:17 PM.

[Fernsie]

Yes, yes, yes!

[Kamikaze Viking]

Yeah we need to bring this back to PGI's attention.

[General Solo]

LFG?

[Kamikaze Viking]

LFG is good, but misses the point.

AP Group wait times are ridiculous
many nights sitting in group q waiting for ages without a game (45 min sometime)

Allowing OPT IN solo players (max 1-2?) per group drop SHOULD alleviate the matchmaker problem of group sizes that dont match up to 12/24.

But its also that sometimes I wanna play 'group queue' but don't wanna be in a group and talking on comms (im sure some others do this occasionally). Obviously it would only put you in group queue as a solo only if needed to help the group queue get a game, and would likely drop you in a solo game most of the time.

Public Queue numbers would also inform us which is more active and hence queue up for solo, group or Invasion or Scouting.
Another option would be something we saw on the PTS server where it made smaller groups of 8 or 4 if there were not enough for 12.

But really I've wanted an Opt In to group queue as solo for a long long time.

[General Solo]

I find during the group grave yard shift... Listening to N Sync solo can help

[SilentScreamer]

Splitting the matchmaking queue years ago was done to improve gameplay for solos and groups. However, there were tradeoffs...

Solo Players:
- Faster matchmaking.
- No getting stomped if the other side has 3 or 4 skilled players grouped up.
- More "lone-wolf" types per match make coordinating the team difficult.

Group Players:
- Better quality matches with fewer "lone-wolf" players.
- Loss of ability to drop with max group size -1
- Longer wait time for match maker.

Allowing solo players to join the group queue would decrease match making time but degrade match quality. Not a good tradeoff in my opinion.

Kamikaze Viking, on 19 October 2017 - 10:53 PM, said:

But its also that sometimes I wanna play 'group queue' but don't wanna be in a group and talking on comms (im sure some others do this occasionally). Obviously it would only put you in group queue as a solo only if needed to help the group queue get a game, and would likely drop you in a solo game most of the time.

I would hope if you choose to turn off Coms/VOIP you are still willing to communicate via Text Chat or the Command Wheel. Organized Groups do not want players who will not communicate on their teams.

Kamikaze Viking, on 19 October 2017 - 10:53 PM, said:

LFG is good, but misses the point.

LFG was great the week it was introduced because players used it. Players used it because the "LFG Challenge" gave them extra stuff earned per match. If PGI put in an incentive for using it, say +20% C-Bills per match, players might actually use the feature again.

[g4borg]

so much yes.

LFG is not a bad feature, but i never saw it work properly in any game, simply because you never know which society you get into. getting kicked after a game e.g. could be taken personally, or even toxic chat messages, etc.
it's one of those features which is nice to have, but wont solve the issues around it.
i only saw it work in wthunder, where soloing always puts you into a temporary group. but thats a different solution of squad play.

solo q is great to start, or hope to get a balanced match.
soloing into group q is great for hardcore players to have more the more unregulated teamplay they hope for.

Edited by g4borg, 23 October 2017 - 05:30 AM.