90 replies to this topic

[Fox the Apprentice]

live1991, on 18 November 2016 - 06:39 AM, said:

Heaps of people that play group Q, exit the game if they can not get a group going how does this harm solo ?
[...]

That's my point, though. There is NO EFFECT on the solo queue if the group queue people leave rather than play solo. Making this change WILL affect solo queue (in a bad manner). PGI has stated they are happy with the solo queue wait times, and I'm inclined to agree.

Let's not break stuff in order to have a small chance at fixing something else. I don't want to be punished for playing by myself.

[Khereg]

Gaden Phoenix, on 17 November 2016 - 10:00 PM, said:

At the start (years ago) were not single players (SQ) added to GQ if there was not enough groups?

No, there was only one queue, period. Solo's and groups dropped together, which led to a large number of solo's complaining about constantly getting rolled by premade groups and the result (after a couple of iterations) was what we have now.

This previous complaining from solo's about the single queue systems is why the current proposal is to make this opt-in only for solo players.

[Khereg]

For the record, I voted yes, but there is an issue here that hasn't been addressed:

This functionality would be the first time in MWO that we'd have players participating in multiple queues simultaneously. That means coordination logic will be needed for the solo and group queue matchmakers to avoid collisions in grabbing players for their respective matches.

Probably not a hugely complicated piece of coding, but it is a pretty central to the matchmaker function (which is itself pretty central to the overall game design and therefore not to be taken lightly) and something that PGI would have to invest in at the expense of whatever else is on their list. The case will need to be made that the benefit is worth the effort to PGI.

Edited by Khereg, 18 November 2016 - 08:46 AM.

[old man odin]

Khereg, on 18 November 2016 - 08:45 AM, said:

For the record, I voted yes, but there is an issue here that hasn't been addressed:

This functionality would be the first time in MWO that we'd have players participating in multiple queues simultaneously. That means coordination logic will be needed for the solo and group queue matchmakers to avoid collisions in grabbing players for their respective matches.

Probably not a hugely complicated piece of coding, but it is a pretty central to the matchmaker function (which is itself pretty central to the overall game design and therefore not to be taken lightly) and something that PGI would have to invest in at the expense of whatever else is on their list. The case will need to be made that the benefit is worth the effort to PGI.

I think we should leave technical issues to game developers. You're making assumptions about how it works now and the effort required that you really don't know.

Edited by Odins Steed, 18 November 2016 - 02:59 PM.

[old man odin]

Fox the Apprentice, on 18 November 2016 - 08:16 AM, said:

That's my point, though. There is NO EFFECT on the solo queue if the group queue people leave rather than play solo. Making this change WILL affect solo queue (in a bad manner). PGI has stated they are happy with the solo queue wait times, and I'm inclined to agree.

Let's not break stuff in order to have a small chance at fixing something else. I don't want to be punished for playing by myself.

I complete refute the idea that pulling a few players out of solo queue will have any noticeable impact on it.

You ever see those pictures of people standing in the dry end of a sinking ship just going 'well, I'm glad the hole isn't on our side' and pretending like nothings wrong? That's you.

People leaving the game because they can't reasonably play with their friends will hurt solo queue as well. Most people play both. Retaining these players should be more important to you if you actually care about solo queue in the long run.

Pretending like this isn't your problem as well is hilariously near sighted.

[General Solo]

As long as its an option and not made mandatory, I'm OK with it.
Personally I don't think that it will affect the solo queue because:

1) My gut feel is that the Solo que is at least 10 times bigger than the group queue
(I remember a post PGI said 90% of players are Solo)
So pulling a few players from the pool should have a negligible impact.

2) I feel its an option relatively few players will take so, negligible impact.

3) IMHO most players who choose this option will be higher tier players thus removing them from the solo que, making the Solo q a little easier perhaps. Maybe and maybe not, just guessing.

Edited by OZHomerOZ, 18 November 2016 - 05:05 PM.

[Kamikaze Viking]

Fox the Apprentice, on 18 November 2016 - 08:16 AM, said:

That's my point, though. There is NO EFFECT on the solo queue if the group queue people leave rather than play solo. Making this change WILL affect solo queue (in a bad manner). PGI has stated they are happy with the solo queue wait times, and I'm inclined to agree.

Let's not break stuff in order to have a small chance at fixing something else. I don't want to be punished for playing by myself.

Do you have problems getting games in the solo queue in a reasonable period of time? High tier players in AP region do.

As you say there are enough solo players out there for the solo queue to get games reasonably fast (at your level, not displayed), only a small % of these players would be selecting the option.
Only 1 filler player per team MAX means that its only going to pull 2 players MAX from the solo queue, And ONLY if groups aren't making up nice jigsaws of 12's.

Then remember that since this will only happen when the matchmaker deems it necessary it will only kick in when group queue is struggling along, And you'll still get put into solo games more often than not.

The effect on the solo queue will be unnoticeable for 99.9% of players.
You have nothing to worry about if you aren't going to be opting in.

[Appogee]

There's already too much idiocy in the solo queue. Don't let it also infect the Group Queue.

[Hydrocarbon]

This is a bad idea unless severely restricted & only available as a so-called flood gate measure.

Liken the sparse AP region's population to the solo queue when CW/FP was split in two queues. What happened is solo CW/FP got even worse & solo savants simply made their own 1-man units to get games.

There are already tools available that let you play in Group Queue: LFG and community teamspeak hubs like NGNG. Be proactive rather than force the devs to fix it for you.

[old man odin]

Hydrocarbon, on 19 November 2016 - 11:09 AM, said:

There are already tools available that let you play in Group Queue: LFG and community teamspeak hubs like NGNG. Be proactive rather than force the devs to fix it for you.

We already use these you git. Next you'll tell us we just need to select all servers, right?

smh

Edited by Odins Steed, 20 November 2016 - 02:43 AM.

[Liveish]

Hydrocarbon, on 19 November 2016 - 11:09 AM, said:

This is a bad idea unless severely restricted & only available as a so-called flood gate measure.

What ideas do you have ?

Hydrocarbon, on 19 November 2016 - 11:09 AM, said:

Liken the sparse AP region's population to the solo queue when CW/FP was split in two queues. What happened is solo CW/FP got even worse & solo savants simply made their own 1-man units to get games.

AP CW has always been dead, even with 1 queue

Hydrocarbon, on 19 November 2016 - 11:09 AM, said:

There are already tools available that let you play in Group Queue: LFG and community teamspeak hubs like NGNG. Be proactive rather than force the devs to fix it for you.

Most people do this, this also does not help match maker, having a limited number of solo people will help MM and help groups get a game.

[TheArisen]

This is already implemented to an extent with LFG but no one uses it (even though players begged for it) so this might be a more effective way.

GRP que can be unpleasant though in small grps, likely more so for solos.

[Liveish]

TheArisen, on 20 November 2016 - 12:37 PM, said:

This is already implemented to an extent with LFG but no one uses it (even though players begged for it) so this might be a more effective way.

GRP que can be unpleasant though in small grps, likely more so for solos.

LRG does not help the MM when we have random groups of random sizes, We normally run 2 - 4 man groups and maybe 1 in 15 games is unpleasant, pug lotto is pug lotto no matter if its solo or group.

Please don't forget saying no as you find group Q unpleasant is not a valid argument to vote no, as you do not have to opt in.

[Dex Spero]

Dear Lord I'm ignorant. Could somebody explain to me (beyond the obvious) what the Solo and Group queues are? In my 10 months of playing I've never come across any spot where the game asked me to select between dropping with groups or solo, just Quick Play or Faction. Is there another game mode that I've been missing this whole time???

[Liveish]

Dex Spero, on 20 November 2016 - 05:58 PM, said:

Dear Lord I'm ignorant. Could somebody explain to me (beyond the obvious) what the Solo and Group queues are? In my 10 months of playing I've never come across any spot where the game asked me to select between dropping with groups or solo, just Quick Play or Faction. Is there another game mode that I've been missing this whole time???

Solo = Playing by yourself

Group = You start a group and play with another mate up to 12

Solo and Group never meet in game.

[TheArisen]

live1991, on 20 November 2016 - 03:53 PM, said:

LRG does not help the MM when we have random groups of random sizes, We normally run 2 - 4 man groups and maybe 1 in 15 games is unpleasant, pug lotto is pug lotto no matter if its solo or group.

Please don't forget saying no as you find group Q unpleasant is not a valid argument to vote no, as you do not have to opt in.

I actually voted yes. I was just making an observation about group que. I'm not insinuating that anything beyond that.

[FREDtheROLF]

JUST DON'T EVEN THINK ABOUT IT!!!!!!!!!

There is a reason why solo play and group play got two ques.

- Group play = team work
- Solo play = i just that. No coordination nothing but just PUGS.


If you allow solo players into the group que you could simply make it one que for all.
We had that and we dont want that again.

If you wanna drop in group que find 1 (in letters ONE just ONE) other and set up a group and you are done.

FtR

Edited by FREDtheROLF, 21 November 2016 - 05:24 AM.

[Dex Spero]

live1991, on 20 November 2016 - 07:52 PM, said:

Solo = Playing by yourself

Group = You start a group and play with another mate up to 12

Solo and Group never meet in game.

Sigh.

You know...

Sigh.

[stay calm Dex, stay calm. The power of Christ compels the rage demon to go away.]

Thank you for explaining that the Solo queue means playing with other solo players, and that the group queue means playing with other group players. I am very angry with myself for not being clear enough in my post (when I said "beyond the obvious") about the fact I had already figured that out. I would try to clarify my question but have decided I will wait to ask it elsewhere.

[Liveish]

TheArisen, on 20 November 2016 - 10:18 PM, said:

I actually voted yes. I was just making an observation about group que. I'm not insinuating that anything beyond that.

Thanks for your support

FREDtheROLF, on 21 November 2016 - 05:20 AM, said:

JUST DON'T EVEN THINK ABOUT IT!!!!!!!!!

There is a reason why solo play and group play got two ques.

- Group play = team work
- Solo play = i just that. No coordination nothing but just PUGS.


If you allow solo players into the group que you could simply make it one que for all.
We had that and we dont want that again.

If you wanna drop in group que find 1 (in letters ONE just ONE) other and set up a group and you are done.

FtR

Group play has little to no team work most of the time, Sometime its hard to find one other to play group and it does not help with MM.

Dex Spero, on 21 November 2016 - 06:23 AM, said:

Sigh.

You know...

Sigh.

[stay calm Dex, stay calm. The power of Christ compels the rage demon to go away.]

Thank you for explaining that the Solo queue means playing with other solo players, and that the group queue means playing with other group players. I am very angry with myself for not being clear enough in my post (when I said "beyond the obvious") about the fact I had already figured that out. I would try to clarify my question but have decided I will wait to ask it elsewhere.

Mate there is not much to say ??

Edited by live1991, 21 November 2016 - 06:51 PM.

[Grimnar]

Dex Spero, on 21 November 2016 - 06:23 AM, said:

Thank you for explaining that the Solo queue means playing with other solo players, and that the group queue means playing with other group players.

I would try to clarify my question but have decided I will wait to ask it elsewhere.

Uh...if you play in a group (literal group, as in you formed it inside the MWO client) then welcome to the group queue. Otherwise you're in the solo queue. Apologies if I didn't understand the question here. Live's proposal would allow people not in a group to enter the same queue as people who are in a group. Unfortunately this would likely mean that you wouldn't be able to squeeze episodes of your favorite TV shows in between drops.

Despite my not even playing this game anymore I am here to pad the Yes vote under threat of bodily harm by live.

Edited by Grimnar, 21 November 2016 - 09:40 PM.