24 replies to this topic

[GrumpyMuppet]

So... I ran the Zeus trial mech as I still haven't decided which assault mech I'd like to buy.

II really enjoyed it. It was fast, powerful, tanky (kinda). But the hardpoints are in pretty horrible locations. A lot of rocks were smashed by MPL and SRM6A.

Now if I win a Zeus in a supply cahce, I will buy two more. But so far, I think the best I have 'won' is omnipods for mechs I don't own (I have no clan at all).

So failing that, is there a better version of the Zeus available? The Battlemaster maybe (there are no trial assaults except the Zeus). Preferably witha mastery back, or like the cyclops where i can get the (first) three variants for $20?

(On a related topic, I was all keen to get the cyclops, but I gather from the fact that I see them very rarely in game that they are no good?)

Edited by GrumpyMuppet, 29 November 2016 - 08:11 PM.

[oldradagast]

The Zeus isn't really any good any more, and you've seen some of the reasons - sort of tanky, sure, but low hardpoints and nothing really special about it. The Battlemaster is all around better, but last I checked it is not available for $20 because PGI, in their infinite "wisdom" or inability to write code, hasn't figure it out yet that making 3-packs of every mech available for $20 would sell a lot more mechs. So, some mechs are locked behind package "deals" where you have to shell out money for mechs you don't want. The Battlemaster may be one of those mechs, but they are good and worth considering.

[Steel Raven]

The Battlemaster has finally started living up to it's name after the rescale, I'm regretting not getting one during the sale.

[GrumpyMuppet]

Doing some quick math...
Week 3 of the black sale, buy $29.95 MC pack, gain 7800 MC - enough MC to buy the mastery pack of the Battlemaster in Week 4 (20% off brings it to 6964MC). There will be MC for change.

Same applies to (F)Atlas, Awesome, Stalker, Banshee, Highlander & Victor. All mastery packs include a hero and a champ as well.

This is what I will do i think. I think for Battlemaster. But open to suggestions otherwise, noting that I want a fast assault mech.

Edited by GrumpyMuppet, 19 November 2016 - 12:31 AM.

[GrumpyMuppet]

So... ended up getting the champion mech (battlemaster 2c if I recall correctly)rather than the mastery pack, much cheaper,and allowed me to buy more heroes. So while I did well enough to complete all basics in 2 drops (double xp, champ bonus, first win of day = 12000xp on first drop) this guy is SLOW. 60kph... so I looked at bigger engines, and wow, they get heavy quickly.

Is there a sweet spot for engine size on the bm? I frequently lost a st so am not really keen on an xl. It seems the best relationship between tonnage and speed is not linear. Anyone done The math to identify the best 'value' engine (best speed: tons ratio)?

Edited by GrumpyMuppet, 29 November 2016 - 06:41 PM.

[AncientRaig]

GrumpyMuppet, on 29 November 2016 - 06:40 PM, said:

So... ended up getting the champion mech (battlemaster 2c if I recall correctly)rather than the mastery pack, much cheaper,and allowed me to buy more heroes. So while I did well enough to complete all basics in 2 drops (double xp, champ bonus, first win of day = 12000xp on first drop) this guy is SLOW. 60kph... so I looked at bigger engines, and wow, they get heavy quickly.

Is there a sweet spot for engine size on the bm? I frequently lost a st so am not really keen on an xl. It seems the best relationship between tonnage and speed is not linear. Anyone done The math to identify the best 'value' engine (best speed: tons ratio)?

Even though the Battlemaster has large and obvious side torsos, it is, essentially, married to the XL engine. Especially if you want speed and firepower. I personally prefer the phrankenbuild I run on my 1G, but when I want to run metacheese I use this 2C: http://mwo.smurfy-ne...fd549c0708f2b7f It's essentially the "meta" for the 2C. You can't "tank" as heavily as most assaults, but the Battlemaster can dish out simply insane amounts of damage from the second line. You can switch the AMS for an XL390 for a little bit extra speed if you want but I prefer that extra bit of protection from the AMS to a gain of 2kph. The build is doable on a STD, but you drop down to a 335 (which costs you almost 10 kph and a good deal of turn and twist speed), lose some armor, AMS, and two DHS to do it.

Also, someone did the math to find the best engine rating here: http://mwomercs.com/...al-engine-size/ It's more of an outline than a definite "This is the best engine for all mechs of this weight class", especially with the engine cap on some mechs like the Centurion and Hunchback being pretty low for mechs of their size, but it should give you a general idea.

[justcallme A S H]

Sidefire, on 01 December 2016 - 05:56 PM, said:

Even though the Battlemaster has large and obvious side torsos, it is, essentially, married to the XL engine. Especially if you want speed and firepower. I personally prefer the phrankenbuild I run on my 1G, but when I want to run metacheese I use this 2C: http://mwo.smurfy-ne...fd549c0708f2b7f It's essentially the "meta" for the 2C.

Meta max IMPROVED

Trade-master extreme. You can get 6LPL, one of my mates showed me last night, I LOL'd... It would out-trade a KDK3 like no-ones business.

[AncientRaig]

justcallme A S H, on 01 December 2016 - 09:43 PM, said:

Meta max IMPROVED

Trade-master extreme. You can get 6LPL, one of my mates showed me last night, I LOL'd... It would out-trade a KDK3 like no-ones business.

Sometimes I question how this game hasn't killed itself off yet. This build caused one of those moments. In all seriousness though, that build is the definition of ****** if anything gets within 2-300 meters of you. You get maybe two shots before you overheat yourself to death? On the other hand, that's a 55 point near PPFLD.

[justcallme A S H]

The above post is pretty much the definition of why you are T3 and, I'm not

It's called "trading" for a reason. If you are making good trades, you are winning. Shoot, move. Shoot, move. If you're going to stand still or continually poke the same corner and LET the enemy get close to you - you dead set deserve to be shot up because that is bad play, not a bad build.

You're running 78km/h in a 85T mech with excellent agility. You can easily keep up with the majority of heavies and spread damage like a boss as you are insanely tanky. So if you are with your team, why does it matter if someone gets to 300m? If it's a light, you can leg it in one shot. You need to use the speed to your advantage.


That build in Faction Play - is even more powerful than it looks. Understanding WHY that build is so powerful is why I do regular 2k damage matches, where you'd probably be lucky to break 1k

I actually ran 5LPL on my 1G for a test last week, 800dmg or something in a QP first match. It's all about how you use a mech not about how crap you think it is because your play level is way below that of others.

Also just to upset you even more. This is my 1G heavy trader you will see a lot of higher level players using this and when my unit drops in FP - I've got a role to do, and I do it well. I've regularly broken 1k in it on Faction Play and mowed down a first wave of mechs - even on the hottest of maps like Sulferous, with a team that is playing a similar style to me and understands it, it will obliterate because all you need is 2 full volleys to torso any mech and either kill (XL IS) or totally maim (Clan XL/LT stack).

Edited by justcallme A S H, 02 December 2016 - 04:06 PM.

[NRP]

I run my Hellslinger with 3 LPLs, 3 MLS, and an XL380 w/20 DHS (I think). Probably about the best you can do with this variant.

[AncientRaig]

justcallme A S H, on 02 December 2016 - 03:59 PM, said:

The above post is pretty much the definition of why you are T3 and, I'm not

It's called "trading" for a reason. If you are making good trades, you are winning. Shoot, move. Shoot, move. If you're going to stand still or continually poke the same corner and LET the enemy get close to you - you dead set deserve to be shot up because that is bad play, not a bad build.

You're running 78km/h in a 85T mech with excellent agility. You can easily keep up with the majority of heavies and spread damage like a boss as you are insanely tanky. So if you are with your team, why does it matter if someone gets to 300m? If it's a light, you can leg it in one shot. You need to use the speed to your advantage.


That build in Faction Play - is even more powerful than it looks. Understanding WHY that build is so powerful is why I do regular 2k damage matches, where you'd probably be lucky to break 1k

I actually ran 5LPL on my 1G for a test last week, 800dmg or something in a QP first match. It's all about how you use a mech not about how crap you think it is because your play level is way below that of others.

Also just to upset you even more. This is my 1G heavy trader you will see a lot of higher level players using this and when my unit drops in FP - I've got a role to do, and I do it well. I've regularly broken 1k in it on Faction Play and mowed down a first wave of mechs - even on the hottest of maps like Sulferous, with a team that is playing a similar style to me and understands it, it will obliterate because all you need is 2 full volleys to torso any mech and either kill (XL IS) or totally maim (Clan XL/LT stack).

Ah, give me a break. I've only been playing with the new tier system since September. Trust me, I understand WHY it's strong. But as someone who has yet to migrate over to the "wondrous world" of FW, I also know never to underestimate the stupidity of PUGs. One minute you can have a perfectly decent firing line, the next half your team turns around and starts running to deal with a Pirates Bane on the other side of the map and Mr. Streakcrow suddenly has taken an unhealthy interest in your declining health. I'm not saying the build is bad, I'm just saying that the build is something you may want to have a friend or two along for the ride. And since most of my friends hate MWO with a passion, I'm stuck running solo drops, and I've found it pays to have more flexible builds than to rely on randoms who might be running XL LRM Atlases for all I know.

Also, playing WW1 with mechs bores me and I tend to run skirmishers or brawlers most of the time. Though my 6 LL Stalker is 15 different kinds of fun.

Edited by Sidefire, 04 December 2016 - 07:32 PM.

[justcallme A S H]

Give you a break why? You told me the build is - insert whatever expletive... Fact is, is just isn't.

5 LPL in QP, absolutely dominates. It's more heat efficient than 6LL builds... If you can get the hang of it, you will climb tiers fast. There really is nothing inflexible about it except it is a tad hot if you just like to arbitrarily fire.

Basic map awareness will let you know if you can unload a 3 & 2 or just a 3 shot (firing control). 3 LPL is basically heat neutral for 33 points of dmg. That is a lot of consistent dmg.

The key if a light comes on you, don't panic. You're an assault... You have loads of armour. Just pick it apart 3 LPL bursts at a time. Don't even use the 2nd bank - you won't have a problem.

You can run a 6LL 1G or 2C if you want as well, and still move insanely fast, be quite cool.

Or even try a HYBRID for range sake. LL outside 500M, LPL inside... Show weapon control, you'll put out damage like no ones business.

Edited by justcallme A S H, 05 December 2016 - 05:07 AM.

[justcallme A S H]

Just played my 1G / 5LPL for a laugh. The mech is not even elited yet, just basic, that's it.

1st game, 600dmg, 1 kill (caustic).
2nd game, 550dmg, 3 kills (canyon).

It's not that hot, easily manageable to crank damage and strip mechs with that pinpoint and tight/high mounts. 6LPL would be hot and way harder to manage cause it's so slow. 5LPL is the sweet spot there, 100%

The Banshee 3M - Now that can rock the 6 LPL, have better cooling and speed due to the extra 10T on offer

Edited by justcallme A S H, 05 December 2016 - 05:37 AM.

[Chill Bill]

5 X LPL works on the 2C. Rarely play it but the few times a month I do, i get this kind of score....and this one was HOT Terra. Passes the Heat Test, even here, if you use good judgement.

Edited by Chill Bill, 05 December 2016 - 07:12 PM.

[GrumpyMuppet]

justcallme A S H, on 05 December 2016 - 05:01 AM, said:

Give you a break why? You told me the build is - insert whatever expletive... Fact is, is just isn't.

5 LPL in QP, absolutely dominates. It's more heat efficient than 6LL builds... If you can get the hang of it, you will climb tiers fast. There really is nothing inflexible about it except it is a tad hot if you just like to arbitrarily fire.

Basic map awareness will let you know if you can unload a 3 & 2 or just a 3 shot (firing control). 3 LPL is basically heat neutral for 33 points of dmg. That is a lot of consistent dmg.

The key if a light comes on you, don't panic. You're an assault... You have loads of armour. Just pick it apart 3 LPL bursts at a time. Don't even use the 2nd bank - you won't have a problem.

You can run a 6LL 1G or 2C if you want as well, and still move insanely fast, be quite cool.

Or even try a HYBRID for range sake. LL outside 500M, LPL inside... Show weapon control, you'll put out damage like no ones business.

So, when you use 5lpl, (or6) do you just accept ghost heat, or do you work on judging the amount of time between 3& 2 to avoid it?

[Tarl Cabot]

GrumpyMuppet, on 05 December 2016 - 08:05 PM, said:

So, when you use 5lpl, (or6) do you just accept ghost heat, or do you work on judging the amount of time between 3& 2 to avoid it?

Delay firing between the two groups, a 1-2 knockout.

[justcallme A S H]

GrumpyMuppet, on 05 December 2016 - 08:05 PM, said:

So, when you use 5lpl, (or6) do you just accept ghost heat, or do you work on judging the amount of time between 3& 2 to avoid it?

Yep as Tarl said.

3 & 2.

So one torso has 3 LPL, the other has two.
Set them to two different weapons groups and NEVER fire at the same time. One after the other "wub wub" "wub wub".

When you get hot either stick to 3 or just stick to 2. If in the heat of battle then you can always just turn left or right, shield with arms for 3-4 sec while you cool off and then turn back and unleash another 55pts of dmg. Then twist the other way 3-4 seconds, then twist back and same again. That is what people mean when they say "torso twisting".

It's not only to spread damage but also to give you time for the mech to cool off even in a heavy battle. Once you master that, you'll be a far better player. Never just "stare" at a target while cooling, always look away.

[POOTYTANGASAUR]

OK you guys are pointing him in right direction. But all your builds are very hot and not all that good.
Here are some real meta bmaster builds.

Bmaster 1G 3 lgpls, 4 mlas

BLR-1G 5 lgpls

BLR-2C 3lgpls, 3 mlas

BLR-2C 4lgpls

The 1g generally gets overlooked now that 2c is out, but I prefer 1g for the heat efficiency and higher alpha loadout.

Also I wouldn't recommend 5lgpls on 2c, it doesn't have heat gen quirks so it can get out paced pretty easily by other loadouts. Also 3lgpls, 3 mlas can alpha constantly allowing for torso twist, that combined with xl395 speed helps for clutch games. 4lgpls can also be run on 2c tho, can alpha more easily so it can trade when it has to, also good speed advantage over 5lgpls.

Also to the dude suggesting 6 erll for CW, nah. 5 lgpls is much better. Generally is pretty easy to get into lgpls effective ranges and can maintain much higher dps. A good way of telling that your build isn't all that great is that you use 1k damage from an assault in CW as a good benchmark. A good CW assault should be easily capable 1500+, which would take a while with 6 erll. My personal best for an assault in CW was 2946 with stalker 4n.

Edited by POOTYTANGASAUR, 06 December 2016 - 12:07 AM.

[justcallme A S H]

POOTYTANGASAUR, on 05 December 2016 - 11:46 PM, said:

OK you guys are pointing him in right direction. But all your builds are very hot and not all that good.
Here are some real meta bmaster builds.

lol so you just posted builds, that we've been discussing. How are they very hot and not that good, if they are the same thing?

POOTYTANGASAUR, on 05 December 2016 - 11:46 PM, said:

Also to the dude suggesting 6 erll for CW, nah. 5 lgpls is much better. Generally is pretty easy to get into lgpls effective ranges and can maintain much higher dps. A good way of telling that your build isn't all that great is that you use 1k damage from an assault in CW as a good benchmark. A good CW assault should be easily capable 1500+, which would take a while with 6 erll. My personal best for an assault in CW was 2946 with stalker 4n.

Yes it is better, not not on all maps.

You try using that on Boreal and you're stuffed. ERLs mandatory. I regularly crack 1k damage in it, even on Hellbore and other maps. Depends on your team and what the enemy is doing and if you actually know how to trade effectively because it's a heavy trader, nothing more. Shoot, cool - repeat. It has plenty of capacity to do so. Why do you think plenty of EVIL players run it, and dominate? Because it's crap?

I could post plenty of screenshots having done ~3k damage as well, to prove my side if you want?
If you are up against a team that is going to try and trade with you (and there are plenty out there), I can assure you now there are not many mechs that will do that better at 1000m+ on the IS side.

Edited by justcallme A S H, 06 December 2016 - 01:09 PM.

[POOTYTANGASAUR]

The builds posted in the thread prior to mine were like 5 lgpls, 16 dhs, xl380 on a bmaster 2c. Hot af.

First I used a IS lgpls deck on every CW map no adjustments.
I am practically always top damage, only exception being if one of my unit mates out does me.

Also EVIL is not exactly good so I wouldn't use them as a benchmark lol.

I posted the stalker doing 2900 as a point on why your bmaster doing 1000+ wasn't a big deal at all.
I have unit mates that have done way more in a match, almost double actually lol.
But 2900 single mech is pretty good.