19 replies to this topic

[boss642296ncc]

DWF vs KGC. And what builds do you prefer?

[TooDumbToQuit]

They are better to eat after the battle......plus one is Clan and the other IS...now for better advice.....

[Rogue Jedi]

the Dire Wolf is restricted to its maximum speed and agility by the fixed 300 engine, also it is stuck with Clan tech which is in some ways inferior to IS tech, e.g. the KCG with 2 AC20s fires 2 shells for an instant 40 damage, A DWF with Clan AC20s fires 8 shots for 40 damage, that single 20 damage shell from the KCG is much more likely to put all the damage in one place compaired to the 4 shells each dealing 5 damage from the ac20 of the DWF

IS lasers have much shorter burn times, and the KCG has them mounted up top, along with the missile hardpoints, so it can fire with most of the Mech invisible to the enemy, while all the DWFs weapons are mounted relatively low

IS Long Range Missiles fire all in one volley as opposed to a stream for Clan (not that I am endorsing making a KCG or DWF into a missile boat, there are way better Mechs to do that with)

most of the differences come from the differences in Clan v IS tech, which are about equal on the whole but there are definitely advantages to IS tech

I dislike the KCG, it is too slow and not great in my hands, and does not have the speed of the KDK or the durability of the AS7
I realy hate the Dire ^{(unless I fighting it in a light Mech, in which case I love a lone Dire, more than once I have killed a fresh Dire 1v1 with a legged Spider)} because the Dire is so slow and sluggish, I literally do better in the most lightly armed Mech in the game than a Dire.

the Dire Wolf's main advantage is its awesome firepower, but unsupported it is a free kill to the enemies fast Mechs, the KCG is agile enough that it can sometimes scare off Lights

Edited by Rogue Jedi, 19 November 2016 - 06:02 AM.

[Tier5 Kerensky]

I have two mastered Dires and they really don't have a lot of selling points.

Good:
You can try out about all kinds of weapons and weapon combinations.

Bad:
Inferior to it's competiors, that is other top assults. But at least it still is top assult and will always be due to being 100 tonne.


From the two I would recommend King Crab as better.

[epikt]

Looks like you're new (welcome!) and you want a 100t powerhouse (not sure it's the best first mech but heh), buy a Kodiak instead.

[Vlad Striker]

DWF have highest free tonnage among clan mechs. It have agile hard-point config but the only weak point - small torso twist angle.
King Crab does not have twisting limitation but it has limited by free weight vs DWF (you does not like to use XL at assault mech, doesn't it) and limited by weapon choice.

Kodiak does not omni-mech and have no option to switch omni-pods and recofigurate mech. Novice needed to test any sort of weapon for joy

[Spheroid]

I don't recommend either of those chassis for new players.

[Koniving]

boss642296ncc, on 19 November 2016 - 05:32 AM, said:

DWF vs KGC. And what builds do you prefer?

For the question of the title...

If you play faction warfare, the DWF is Clan factions (Wolf, Jade Falcon, Jaguar, Ghost Bear) while the KGC is Inner Sphere (all the other factions in the game).
DWF is an Omnimech, allowing you to change hardpoints (in MWO).
KGC is a Battlemech, allowing you to change engines, heatsink type, structure and armor types (in MWO).

KGC is wider and broad from above.
DWF is blocky.

-------------------

So many builds... so I won't put anything here.

Spheroid, on 19 November 2016 - 10:56 AM, said:

I don't recommend either of those chassis for new players.

However, I do second this statement.

The tactical skill of positioning is so critical with either of these mechs (especially the DWF), that these mechs are among those that might be superb in the hands of someone with equally superb knowledge of the game...however the fact is without that skill, these mechs may be among the most punishing to 'start' with.

From Short Questions, short answers where in its second post on the very first page, I have placed a massive "FAQ".

This is found under the spoiler's update, under the category definitions:

Koniving, on 02 October 2013 - 10:25 AM, said:

• "To Commit" is a term that refers to engaging in a fight you cannot pull away from. With a single life this is important because once you commit that's it. Either you win or you die as the situation is impossible to escape from. Examples of usage: "Are we going to commit?" "Are you sure about this? We can't win. (response) It's too late we're committed." "I've got hostiles here. (Roger that, rendezvous with us and lure 'em.) No can do, I'm committed."
  
• "Going down" is the guaranteed losing form of "to commit." With enough experience you will know right away when there is nothing you can do and so reporting (on voice) that you are going down lets your comrades know that you cannot be rescued and that any attempt to do so will result in a Black Hawk Down scenario.

The source of these two words and its primary use is from and for assault mechs of 90 or more tons where positioning is literally the element that can turn a 2 versus 10 fight into a victory for the losing team.

Edited by Koniving, 19 November 2016 - 11:59 AM.

[Tarl Cabot]

Quote

I don't recommend either of those chassis for new players.

Third.

And, since at the time of this post your name is in baby blue, meaning you have not completed 25 cadet drops.

If you are actually new with no experience in the game, those can be the worse mechs for you to learn the game in. They are the heaviest and heavily gunned but they are also slow and big, making them a priority targets. And since they can equip more and/or heavier weapons, there is also the cost of overheating/shutting down to be picked apart. And being slow, you run the risk of being left behind to be picked apart by fast mediums/lights if/when the team starts to nascar, running around an landmark like on a racetrack, leaving the slower moving, slower reacting mechs behind.

Mediums and heavies would be better, as most will be agile, fast enough to get in and out of a bad spot and enough weapons to do some damage. A medium is generally not a priority target unless it is by itself.

[boss642296ncc]

Tarl Cabot, on 19 November 2016 - 11:37 AM, said:

Third.

And, since at the time of this post your name is in baby blue, meaning you have not completed 25 cadet drops.

If you are actually new with no experience in the game, those can be the worse mechs for you to learn the game in. They are the heaviest and heavily gunned but they are also slow and big, making them a priority targets. And since they can equip more and/or heavier weapons, there is also the cost of overheating/shutting down to be picked apart. And being slow, you run the risk of being left behind to be picked apart by fast mediums/lights if/when the team starts to nascar, running around an landmark like on a racetrack, leaving the slower moving, slower reacting mechs behind.

Mediums and heavies would be better, as most will be agile, fast enough to get in and out of a bad spot and enough weapons to do some damage. A medium is generally not a priority target unless it is by itself.

Spheroid, on 19 November 2016 - 10:56 AM, said:

I don't recommend either of those chassis for new players.

epikt, on 19 November 2016 - 08:41 AM, said:

Looks like you're new (welcome!) and you want a 100t powerhouse (not sure it's the best first mech but heh), buy a Kodiak instead.

I am not new. I've been playing a lot for about two years ago. Now I see lots of changes but I still love assaults . It's easy for me to choose right position and then win the battle.

And sorry my English if something wrong.

Edited by boss642296ncc, 19 November 2016 - 01:46 PM.

[Bud Crue]

See the following for where the Dire and the King Crab are at overall performance-wise according to the leader boards from the last years events as put together by Tarogato:

https://docs.google....t#gid=873915851

Dire is overall the second or third highest performing mech in the game.
KC is a bit further down at 9th place.

See also the original thread for more analysis. I focus on this since its about the best compilation of actual data that we have.

http://mwomercs.com/...rd-event-stats/

[Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood]

I'd recommend a Mauler in place of a King Crab and a Kodiak inplace of a Dire Wolf. Just better mechs overall that move faster on average, have shield arms, much better hitboxes, higher mounted hardpoints. Just superior in just about every way.

[WrathOfDeadguy]

Both were fantastic when introduced. The DWF was the apex assault from the time Clans first dropped until the KGC released; it had so much more firepower than anything else that it just dominated. The KGC was the first IS assault that could rival the DWF's raw DPS (before the AS7 got sufficient quirks to be useful) and, being slightly tankier with a STD engine, cleaned up pretty damned well.

Funny to think that both are in a pretty sad place right now. The DWF is too slow, and the KGC doesn't have high enough ballistic mounts... neither one can be on top of the pile now. The MAL replaced the KGC, and the KDK replaced the DWF.

I'd recommend neither, as things stand. The Atlas has better quirks for tanking as an IS assault and the MAL has better hardpoints. The KDK is just plain better as a Clan machine, even after getting nerfed. Anything with as much firepower as KGCs and DWFs have will never be useless, but they are no longer the hulking killboulders they used to be.

Which, really, is just one more reason to never chase the meta. There will always be a new darling chassis which obsoletes what came before it- else nerfs will ruin an apex chassis, else quirks will turn a useless badmech into the new king of the heap... If you like either, get them. Just do your homework on their current strengths and limitations so that you don't spend several dozen million cbills on something you wind up hating. Either way, KGC or DWF, you're getting a lot of firepower with lower-than-optimal speed and agility, mostly low mounts and merely 'okay' durability for the tonnage. As far as 100-tonners are concerned, the Atlas is the best tankand the Kodiak has the best hardpoint locations and loadout options. Make of that what you will.

[Koniving]

Well, being a new account rather than a new player...

Dire Cow (4 Gauss Rifles; cow print color scheme if possible).
Twin ER PPC, twin Gauss, lots of small ER lasers.
Twin ER PPC, lots of small pulse lasers and 6 MGs, or cut two MGs and include missiles if desired.
Many ACs.
5 ER ML and 5 ER LL, better make that LL shot 'count' as it could instantly kill most enemies. You also get one shot every 10 or so seconds due to the heat.

King Crab
6 MGs, 2 SRMs and 2 ER PPCs (or std). Can swap it with twin LPL.
twin AC/2, quad AC/5 and lots of ammo.
2 MGs, twin AC/2s and twin AC/5s alongside twin SPL and twin SRMs. Plenty of ammo.

Twin large pulse lasers + twin AC/20s... It's like having an AC/60 with bonus damage.

Edited by Koniving, 19 November 2016 - 08:25 PM.

[LMP]

Rogue Jedi, on 19 November 2016 - 06:01 AM, said:

the Dire Wolf is restricted to its maximum speed and agility by the fixed 300 engine, also it is stuck with Clan tech which is in some ways inferior to IS tech, e.g. the KCG with 2 AC20s fires 2 shells for an instant 40 damage, A DWF with Clan AC20s fires 8 shots for 40 damage, that single 20 damage shell from the KCG is much more likely to put all the damage in one place compaired to the 4 shells each dealing 5 damage from the ac20 of the DWF

IS lasers have much shorter burn times, and the KCG has them mounted up top, along with the missile hardpoints, so it can fire with most of the Mech invisible to the enemy, while all the DWFs weapons are mounted relatively low

IS Long Range Missiles fire all in one volley as opposed to a stream for Clan (not that I am endorsing making a KCG or DWF into a missile boat, there are way better Mechs to do that with)

most of the differences come from the differences in Clan v IS tech, which are about equal on the whole but there are definitely advantages to IS tech

I dislike the KCG, it is too slow and not great in my hands, and does not have the speed of the KDK or the durability of the AS7
I realy hate the Dire ^{(unless I fighting it in a light Mech, in which case I love a lone Dire, more than once I have killed a fresh Dire 1v1 with a legged Spider)} because the Dire is so slow and sluggish, I literally do better in the most lightly armed Mech in the game than a Dire.

the Dire Wolf's main advantage is its awesome firepower, but unsupported it is a free kill to the enemies fast Mechs, the KCG is agile enough that it can sometimes scare off Lights

Does the same hold true for all IS auto cannons or just the AC20?

[Rogue Jedi]

LMP, on 20 November 2016 - 06:04 AM, said:

Does the same hold true for all IS auto cannons or just the AC20?

yes, all IS Autocannons and the IS Ultra AC5 (at current the only IS UAC) fire a single shell for the damage number, while Clan Autocannons and Ultra ACs fire a short burst of shells for each pull of the trigger
Clan(U)AC2 fires a single 2 damage shell
Clan(U)AC5 fire 2 shells each dealing 2.5 damage for a total of 5
Clan(C)AC10 fires 3 shells each dealing 3.33 damage for a total of 10 damage
Clan(U)AC20 fires 4 shells for 5 damage each, 20 total

LBX ACs regardless of Clan of IS fire a number of pellets, shotgun style for each pull of the trigger, the higher the number the more damage they do and the more quickly they spread out, as well as being shorter range

Edited by Rogue Jedi, 20 November 2016 - 06:16 AM.

[Vlad Striker]

To be honest KDK with 53 km/h has much less survival chances against DWF.

[Rogue Jedi]

Vlad Striker, on 20 November 2016 - 07:38 AM, said:

To be honest KDK with 53 km/h has much less survival chances against DWF.

agreed, but with the stock engine the Kodiak does 65/70, one variant can manage about 90kph in short bursts thanks to MASC.

there is no good reason to take a Kodiak with a 300 engine, if you want to be (in my opinion) unbearably slow with lots of guns take a Dire Wolf

[epikt]

Rogue Jedi, on 20 November 2016 - 09:10 AM, said:

there is no good reason to take a Kodiak with a 300 engine

There is one: quad gauss.

[Tordin]

I recommend both. But as your first mech?? Well, if you want to get into assault with some degree of success.. Gof for a high end tonnage mech in the Heavy class (70/75t) or low end tonnage in the Assault class (80/ 85t). Not too fast, not to slow and packs a punch.
In my experience I find the Warhammers, Summoners, Marauders, Night Gyrs enjoyable regarding the slower high end tonnage heavies. While Warhawks and Zeus for the lower ton assaults. The Banshee are a exception. Its though, fast for an assault, can spread dmg well and deal high dmg in return. But even if its kinda fast, you are a bigger target and need to learn, WHEN to strike, push and draw attention. For the bigger assaults, its like having a bullseye on your chassi. You WILL be focused down ASAP withouth support.