

Is Chasis To Match Speed With Linebacker
#1
Posted 20 November 2016 - 09:56 AM
There are cannon IS heavies capable of the same speed as the Linebacker: the Exterminator and the Lancelot to name two. Both are Starleague era mechs heavy on energy loadouts. Are these worth adding to MWO? The Lancelot with high mounted hardpoints and the "barrel arms" also carried by the Jagermech and Rifleman seems like it would be a match for the hill hugging players.
http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Lancelot
http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Exterminator
#2
Posted 20 November 2016 - 09:58 AM
Really though, there are diminishing returns for going that fast (i.e. less weight for gunz). Once you get above 90 then you're already good to go for the most part. You only need to go faster if you want a bigger engine to fit more DHS (boating medium sized lasers or something).
#3
Posted 20 November 2016 - 10:00 AM
Edited by Tarl Cabot, 20 November 2016 - 10:01 AM.
#4
Posted 20 November 2016 - 10:06 AM
#5
Posted 20 November 2016 - 10:39 AM
FupDup, on 20 November 2016 - 09:58 AM, said:
Really though, there are diminishing returns for going that fast (i.e. less weight for gunz). Once you get above 90 then you're already good to go for the most part. You only need to go faster if you want a bigger engine to fit more DHS (boating medium sized lasers or something).
Mostly due to the fact that as engine size increases, the tons required to increase ground speed by a given amount (that is, tons per 5 points of engine rating) increase. This makes engines >360 really extremely inefficient; you're way better off downgrading to a 350-360 basically always (with the potential exception of small/medium laser boating, as you said).
Mind you, I don't think any IS heavies allow >360 rated engines, so there's that.
But that's the reality of it anyways, using larger engines gets you a trivially small extra bit of speed at a huge cost.
Going from 300 -> 325 costs 3.5 tons
Going from 325 -> 350 costs 3 tons
Going from 350 -> 375 costs 4.5 tons
Going from 375 -> 400 costs 7 tons.
#6
Posted 20 November 2016 - 10:44 AM
Wintersdark, on 20 November 2016 - 10:39 AM, said:
Mind you, I don't think any IS heavies allow >360 rated engines, so there's that.
...
One Grasshopper is 365 and one of the Black Knights goes up to 385.
Not like it makes much of a difference, but still worth mentioning for record-keeping purposes.
#7
Posted 20 November 2016 - 10:46 AM
IS has a hard time matching it because the IS XL engines can be a glass jaw for heavies.
#8
Posted 20 November 2016 - 10:48 AM
SilentScreamer, on 20 November 2016 - 09:56 AM, said:
There are cannon IS heavies capable of the same speed as the Linebacker: the Exterminator and the Lancelot to name two. Both are Starleague era mechs heavy on energy loadouts. Are these worth adding to MWO? The Lancelot with high mounted hardpoints and the "barrel arms" also carried by the Jagermech and Rifleman seems like it would be a match for the hill hugging players.
http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Lancelot
http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Exterminator
1) As you have noticed, the Lancelot is very similar to RFL-5D Rifleman. Perhaps the only advantage would be a higher engine cap.
2) As for the Exterminator, you would end up with something as the Quickdraw - predominatly enrgy boat with one or two missile hardpoints (one model had one MG, so one ballistic hardpoint too).
#9
Posted 20 November 2016 - 10:49 AM
Wintersdark, on 20 November 2016 - 10:39 AM, said:
But you also get that sweet, sweet 6th engine heat sink slot.
As for the OP... I don't think there's really a good IS match to the Linerbacker. This is one of those situations where 14 slot Endo and Ferro really, really hurt.
#10
Posted 20 November 2016 - 10:55 AM
> 6xE+2xM (with laser duration quirks at minimum)
> 8xE (with laser range quirks at minimum)
> 2xE + Jump Jets (with hefty PPC quirks)
Ballistics are a total non-starter. The only one that almost doesn't suck up too much tonnage for its damage rating is the LB-10X, and we are all familiar with its deficiencies. If all of the lasers are in the torso and at most one arm, we might be able to squeeze a Gauss and five Mediums in with 25 shots, but we need medium laser range and ballistic cool-down to make that tenable. And I don't mean 10%, we need 20% at least.
Edited by Yeonne Greene, 20 November 2016 - 10:56 AM.
#11
Posted 20 November 2016 - 11:02 AM
Yeonne Greene, on 20 November 2016 - 10:55 AM, said:
> 6xE+2xM (with laser duration quirks at minimum)
> 8xE (with laser range quirks at minimum)
> 2xE + Jump Jets (with hefty PPC quirks)
Ballistics are a total non-starter. The only one that almost doesn't suck up too much tonnage for its damage rating is the LB-10X, and we are all familiar with its deficiencies. If all of the lasers are in the torso and at most one arm, we might be able to squeeze a Gauss and five Mediums in with 25 shots, but we need medium laser range and ballistic cool-down to make that tenable. And I don't mean 10%, we need 20% at least.
This could be possible for an IS mech if they put in the Grand Dragon Variants and give the Dragon design as a whole an overhaul.
http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Grand_Dragon
5K comes with ERPPC stock as it's "gun arm" (which means probably PPC quirk) and then 3 other energy hardpoints and one missile. If we expanded on that and give it two more energy and one missile it fulfills one of your aspects.
1G comes with a normal PPC "gun arm" but is pretty much a normal Dragon otherwise.
Dragons are one of the older Heavy designs. Catapult got a major scale down, but the Dragon needs a complete redo IMO and it would be a great time to add the Grand Dragons to the Dragon Variant list.
#12
Posted 20 November 2016 - 11:28 AM
#13
Posted 20 November 2016 - 11:32 AM
Yeonne Greene, on 20 November 2016 - 11:28 AM, said:
Yeah the whole deal to be even partially viable would require some work on the Dragon model itself. (Cadillac hood nose would have to be shortened and the shoulders either bulked out or the whole mech made taller.)
The plus side is that it could have one side torso mount in each shoulder up high to mount ERPPCs in.
Edited by Barantor, 20 November 2016 - 11:34 AM.
#14
Posted 20 November 2016 - 12:10 PM
I'd choose the Lancelot but I'd probably not go higher than a xl375 due to the diminishing returns. Maybe for a Mlas boat but that's it. The Lancelot would be an upgraded Rifleman, aside from quirks it'd obsolete it.
Tbh I think the Linebacker would be a somewhat better mech if it used a 375 instead of a 390.
#15
Posted 20 November 2016 - 12:24 PM
#16
Posted 20 November 2016 - 01:23 PM
Dee Eight, on 20 November 2016 - 12:24 PM, said:
Almost, but the hardpoints are in the wrong spots since the Grand dragon 5K has one energy point in each arm, each torso. The 1C has 4 energy points, but it is two in the left arm and two in the left torso.
Dragon needs a redesign anyway.
#17
Posted 20 November 2016 - 03:18 PM
However, I am a fan of IS cavalry Mechs nonetheless. The Lancelot would be nice, especially the one variant with JJ. Its big brother, the Dragoon, also comes with a variant having a high engine cap and a boatload of energy hardpoints, plus the ability to mount an AC/20 in the arm. (And it is a very good Mech overall, but it is extinct and PGI never did a fully extinct chassis before).
My personal favourite is the Excalibur. It would depend on good quirks though and its variants are quite boring.
#18
Posted 20 November 2016 - 05:44 PM
FLG 01, on 20 November 2016 - 03:18 PM, said:
However, I am a fan of IS cavalry Mechs nonetheless. The Lancelot would be nice, especially the one variant with JJ. Its big brother, the Dragoon, also comes with a variant having a high engine cap and a boatload of energy hardpoints, plus the ability to mount an AC/20 in the arm. (And it is a very good Mech overall, but it is extinct and PGI never did a fully extinct chassis before).
I actually like the look of that Dragoon... high mounted energy arms like the rifleman or jagermech, and even the stock loadout looks pretty viable. I mean just switch the two LB-10-X cannons out for two regular AC/10s, keep the ERPPC, and upgrade to double heat sinks and you've got yourself a 'mech that sounds like I could do well in. I kinda want that 'mech now.
#19
Posted 20 November 2016 - 05:46 PM
#20
Posted 20 November 2016 - 06:31 PM
It actually gets worse because you'll end up needing to quirk many of the IS chassis to even properly make the most of the IS XL engine.
Most of the usable IS mechs that use large IS XL engines are of the laservomit/energy variety.. and that's usually limited and problematic on many levels.
There's not really a need to compete with the Linebacker... because there are literally better options (for Clan mechs) available.
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