76 replies to this topic

[STEF_]

DovisKhan, on 24 November 2016 - 09:06 AM, said:

Well it is indeed hopeless to teach statistics to some people, so I won't bother

As it's very fun to teach to potatoes, I DO bother (without hope, sadly) explain statistics to you
AGAIN!

Challenges are important to see how mechs work, because a lot of matches are involved, along with a lot of players (from top pilots....to...potatoes)
Take a close look, each variant from max score to the 75th one.

dragon 3019-1643
catapult 3578-2176
cataphract 3568-1956
quickdraw 3422- 1841
orion 3286-1851
jagermech 3501-2086
thinderbolt 3534- 2155
grasshopper 3599-2031
black knight 3544- 2003
marauder 3477-2283
warhammer 4220- 2350
rifleman 3309- 1990
archer 3006- 2032
Timberwolf 3513-2449
summoner 3406-1911
mad dog 3455- 2246
hellbringer 4530- 2293
ebon jag 3700- 2393
orion2c 3294-1955

linebackers
3449-1931
3034-1601
2720-1590
3411-1285
3193-1524
3033-1809

Now, I know you need help, so I helped you a bit making relevant numbers using font n°24.
Great pilots do always well, even using DOA mech.
The relevant number is the last one, or, if you prefer, from 40th to 75th position; because they are average pilots.
So, you saying linebacker is good or even OP....while the linebacker did quite good as....the Dragon?? the Orion?? the Cataphract??
DESPITE ALL ITS FREAKING QUIRKS.

I know you'll never thank for the lesson.....that's why I enjoy to discuss with potatoes.
They are bad, but they never feel bad

Edited by Stefka Kerensky, 25 November 2016 - 12:08 AM.

[Clownwarlord]

How is the linebacker? In one word I say difficult. You have this heavy that is a ball decent sized ball, a medium 45 tonner or less weapon load out, and you get the speed of a 45 ton medium or 40 tonner.

Yeah thats the linebacker in one word, difficult.

[El Bandito]

Stefka Kerensky, on 25 November 2016 - 12:06 AM, said:

linebackers
3449-1931
3034-1601
2720-1590
3411-1285
3193-1524
3033-1809

Now, I know you need help, so I helped you a bit making relevant numbers using font n°24.
Great pilots do always well, even using DOA mech.
The relevant number is the last one, or, if you prefer, from 40th to 75th position; because they are average pilots.
So, you saying linebacker is good or even OP....while the linebacker did quite good as....the Dragon?? the Orion?? the Cataphract??
DESPITE ALL ITS FREAKING QUIRKS.

I know you'll never thank for the lesson.....that's why I enjoy to discuss with potatoes.
They are bad, but they never feel bad

TBF, the Linebacker leaderboard didn't have good enough prizes to seriously aim for them.

[STEF_]

El Bandito, on 25 November 2016 - 12:34 AM, said:

TBF, the Linebacker leaderboard didn't have good enough prizes to seriously aim for them.

It doesn't matter, El.
After the patch there were full of linebackers around, and I still find a lot of them...because it's the novelty, the last released mech. So, the number of matches involved must be high anyway.

No matter what, in group que (90% of my drops), I've never ever seen a single match decided by linebackers.
While I saw a lot of them going yolo (bad pilots) or going brawl when the match was already decided for a side or the other (smart pilots).
The numbers from 50 to 75 positions are very very very low, tho.

[DovisKhan]

@Stefka

Stefka Kerensky, on 25 November 2016 - 12:06 AM, said:

As it's very fun to teach to potatoes, I DO bother (without hope, sadly) explain statistics to you
AGAIN!

Challenges are important to see how mechs work, because a lot of matches are involved, along with a lot of players (from top pilots....to...potatoes)
Take a close look, each variant from max score to the 75th one.

dragon 3019-1643
catapult 3578-2176
cataphract 3568-1956
quickdraw 3422- 1841
orion 3286-1851
jagermech 3501-2086
thinderbolt 3534- 2155
grasshopper 3599-2031
black knight 3544- 2003
marauder 3477-2283
warhammer 4220- 2350
rifleman 3309- 1990
archer 3006- 2032
Timberwolf 3513-2449
summoner 3406-1911
mad dog 3455- 2246
hellbringer 4530- 2293
ebon jag 3700- 2393
orion2c 3294-1955

linebackers
3449-1931
3034-1601
2720-1590
3411-1285
3193-1524
3033-1809

Now, I know you need help, so I helped you a bit making relevant numbers using font n°24.
Great pilots do always well, even using DOA mech.
The relevant number is the last one, or, if you prefer, from 40th to 75th position; because they are average pilots.
So, you saying linebacker is good or even OP....while the linebacker did quite good as....the Dragon?? the Orion?? the Cataphract??
DESPITE ALL ITS FREAKING QUIRKS.

I know you'll never thank for the lesson.....that's why I enjoy to discuss with potatoes.
They are bad, but they never feel bad

What this says is its performing on par with extremely popular mechs like Black Knght (10 tons heavier), Grasshopper, Summoner, Archer, Rifleman, Quicdraw

Its also just like Bandito mentioned - prize sucks *** with this one in comparisson, so not many people tried hard

[BlueFlames]

Stefka Kerensky, on 25 November 2016 - 12:06 AM, said:

As it's very fun to teach to potatoes, I DO bother (without hope, sadly) explain statistics to you
AGAIN!

Challenges are important to see how mechs work, because a lot of matches are involved, along with a lot of players (from top pilots....to...potatoes)
Take a close look, each variant from max score to the 75th one.

dragon 3019-1643
catapult 3578-2176
cataphract 3568-1956
quickdraw 3422- 1841
orion 3286-1851
jagermech 3501-2086
thinderbolt 3534- 2155
grasshopper 3599-2031
black knight 3544- 2003
marauder 3477-2283
warhammer 4220- 2350
rifleman 3309- 1990
archer 3006- 2032
Timberwolf 3513-2449
summoner 3406-1911
mad dog 3455- 2246
hellbringer 4530- 2293
ebon jag 3700- 2393
orion2c 3294-1955

linebackers
3449-1931
3034-1601
2720-1590
3411-1285
3193-1524
3033-1809

This analysis is awful.

First, the top seventy-five scores do not represent the entire dataset, so you can't do a meaningful analysis to begin with. Do the top seventy-five scores represent the upper quartile? Upper decile? It's kind of important to know what part of the bell curve we're looking at in each case, to see if each leaderboard corresponds to the others in any meaningful way.

Second, you've got sampling bias problems. The Linebacker leaderboard occurred when the mech was only available for cash, while the generalized heavy leaderboard included many mechs available for C-bills. This means that the top seventy-five players of those mechs likely had to compete against more players to get onto that list, driving scores (particularly the seventy-fifth score) higher. We also don't know what systemic skill level differences there are between players who spend money on the game and those who don't.

Don't go impuning other people as "stats potatos", when you clearly don't grasp the basics of it yourself.

[STEF_]

BlueFlames, on 25 November 2016 - 12:44 AM, said:

Don't go impuning other people as "stats potatos", when you clearly don't grasp the basics of it yourself.

Those are the only datas we have. Or what? do you have others? do you have the bell curve, the number of involved matches, etc.?
I did take into accout your points, while writing that list.....but we don't have datas about that.
We do have datas about score points from 1 to 75.

And about "potato"....wow, what an offence!! LOL
I didn0t think writing potato were to impuning people

Edited by Stefka Kerensky, 25 November 2016 - 12:51 AM.

[BlueFlames]

Stefka Kerensky, on 25 November 2016 - 12:48 AM, said:

Those are the only datas we have. Or what? do you have others? do you have the bell curve, the number of involved matches, etc.?

No, I don't have the rest of the data set, but I'm not foolishly trying to do analysis on a partial data set. You are now just pretending to be an authority on how to judge a mech's capabilities, and you're grasping at straws to do it. I'm calling you out for talking ****. It was one thing, when you were presenting your opinion as opinion, but now you're trying to magic up some mathematical basis to justify it, and it's not doing you any favors.

[DovisKhan]

BlueFlames, on 25 November 2016 - 12:55 AM, said:

No, I don't have the rest of the data set, but I'm not foolishly trying to do analysis on a partial data set. You are now just pretending to be an authority on how to judge a mech's capabilities, and you're grasping at straws to do it. I'm calling you out for talking ****. It was one thing, when you were presenting your opinion as opinion, but now you're trying to magic up some mathematical basis to justify it, and it's not doing you any favors.

heh, I like when someone goes full on MATHwarrior , that's why I probably like Kanajashi the most out of MWO youtubers

[STEF_]

BlueFlames, on 25 November 2016 - 12:55 AM, said:

No, I don't have the rest of the data set, but I'm not foolishly trying to do analysis on a partial data set. You are now just pretending to be an authority on how to judge a mech's capabilities, and you're grasping at straws to do it. I'm calling you out for talking ****. It was one thing, when you were presenting your opinion as opinion, but now you're trying to magic up some mathematical basis to justify it, and it's not doing you any favors.

WHAT? ME an authority?

AEHM.... I didn't think I would sound like that!!!!!!

Well...thanks to warn me about

[STEF_]

DovisKhan, on 25 November 2016 - 01:08 AM, said:

heh, I like when someone goes full on MATHwarrior , that's why I probably like Kanajashi the most out of MWO youtubers

YEP!
I love Kana, and funny enough, when I saw his "Should you buy the linebacker" analysis, I laughed about the linebacker
(16-17 free tons.... just like the adder? WTF?! ...390xl...on a 65tonner??? ) So, yes, I skip the mech starting from that analysis.

[DovisKhan]

Stefka Kerensky, on 25 November 2016 - 01:17 AM, said:

YEP!
I love Kana, and funny enough, when I saw his "Should you buy the linebacker" analysis, I laughed about the linebacker
(16-17 free tons.... just like the adder? WTF?! ...390xl...on a 65tonner??? ) So, yes, I skip the mech starting from that analysis.

Well, my PPC love is what made me buy it and its great for that (so much better than K2, which I still loved), for everything else I can think of a better mech

[Idealsuspect]

Hellsgate9999, on 22 November 2016 - 03:21 PM, said:

I'm about 5 minutes away from dropping 20 bucks for the linebacker, I love the idea of it being a heavy that goes over 100kph. Before I do that I figured I would get some feedback on it by people allready playing it.

So how is it? Pretty solid? Kinda meh?

Strengths? Weaknesses? Opinions?

I don't want to buy it and find out that it sucks. Haha

Well linebacker is like expected a shadowcat without ecm, without masc, without JJ + 20 tonns of steel but with a 30 tonns engine also + 16,5tonns of engine.
We can say it's a bigger stromcrow in fact with less weapons, less pot tonnage, a bigger hitboxes, more armor and a ugly face ^^

Very weak as raw power of destruction but very nice for improved long tom nascar beta 2,0 games we have now in solo QP

Now we just need an 85 tons clan assault able to reach 80kph with boating many weapons and lots of pod space/tonnage then nascar beta 2.0 will pass in beta 3.0.
Someone said maraudeur 2C ?

[Angel of Annihilation]

Stefka Kerensky, on 25 November 2016 - 12:06 AM, said:

As it's very fun to teach to potatoes, I DO bother (without hope, sadly) explain statistics to you AGAIN! Challenges are important to see how mechs work, because a lot of matches are involved, along with a lot of players (from top pilots....to...potatoes) Take a close look, each variant from max score to the 75th one. dragon 3019-1643 catapult 3578-2176 cataphract 3568-1956 quickdraw 3422- 1841 orion 3286-1851 jagermech 3501-2086 thinderbolt 3534- 2155 grasshopper 3599-2031 black knight 3544- 2003 marauder 3477-2283 warhammer 4220- 2350 rifleman 3309- 1990 archer 3006- 2032 Timberwolf 3513-2449 summoner 3406-1911 mad dog 3455- 2246 hellbringer 4530- 2293 ebon jag 3700- 2393 orion2c 3294-1955 linebackers 3449-1931 3034-1601 2720-1590 3411-1285 3193-1524 3033-1809 Now, I know you need help, so I helped you a bit making relevant numbers using font n°24. Great pilots do always well, even using DOA mech. The relevant number is the last one, or, if you prefer, from 40th to 75th position; because they are average pilots. So, you saying linebacker is good or even OP....while the linebacker did quite good as....the Dragon?? the Orion?? the Cataphract?? DESPITE ALL ITS FREAKING QUIRKS. I know you'll never thank for the lesson.....that's why I enjoy to discuss with potatoes. They are bad, but they never feel bad

Actually I believe the lower number is more an indication of the skill level required to pilot the mech not how good or bad the mech is. I mean we are still taking about only the top 75 players in that mech and I am sorry to say that would probably still represent the top 10-20% of all players, playing that mech, not your average potato.

However, you honestly can't look at the new leaderboards and compare them to the older leaderboards. I mean at first glace logic would say you should be able to but you have to think about how things have changed with the leaderboards recently. What I mean by that is the current rewards and the requirement for winning that reward have changed fairly drastically.

The older leaderboard reward system offered a good incentive to compete as hard as you could to be in the top 5 and win the reward. At that stage, every point counted and winning or losing was very hotly contested. You couldn't even hope to win anything unless you could break a 2800 score and even then you would probably come up short. Now the reward is pretty lame overall at least for most players and you don't have to compete with the top players to win the reward. 2800 score required....hah.... more like 1600 score required if you want to place. Also you only have to place so once you secure a score good enough to get you up into the middle of the pack, what is the point of pushing for a higher score?

The point is, the Linebacker leaderboard isn't near as hotly contested as most of the older mech leaderboards were because there is very little reason to score in the top 5 except for bragging rights. You only have to do good enough to get into the Top 75 because it is the same reward for 75th place as it is 1st place and without that push to get you to compete for the top slot, you have no reason to push for any higher score than it needed. Obviously your going to have lower scores scores in that scenario.

[STEF_]

Viktor Drake, on 25 November 2016 - 10:03 AM, said:

Actually I believe the lower number is more an indication of the skill level required to pilot the mech not how good or bad the mech is. I mean we are still taking about only the top 75 players in that mech and I am sorry to say that would probably still represent the top 10-20% of all players, playing that mech, not your average potato.

However, you honestly can't look at the new leaderboards and compare them to the older leaderboards. I mean at first glace logic would say you should be able to but you have to think about how things have changed with the leaderboards recently. What I mean by that is the current rewards and the requirement for winning that reward have changed fairly drastically.

The older leaderboard reward system offered a good incentive to compete as hard as you could to be in the top 5 and win the reward. At that stage, every point counted and winning or losing was very hotly contested. You couldn't even hope to win anything unless you could break a 2800 score and even then you would probably come up short. Now the reward is pretty lame overall at least for most players and you don't have to compete with the top players to win the reward. 2800 score required....hah.... more like 1600 score required if you want to place. Also you only have to place so once you secure a score good enough to get you up into the middle of the pack, what is the point of pushing for a higher score?

The point is, the Linebacker leaderboard isn't near as hotly contested as most of the older mech leaderboards were because there is very little reason to score in the top 5 except for bragging rights. You only have to do good enough to get into the Top 75 because it is the same reward for 75th place as it is 1st place and without that push to get you to compete for the top slot, you have no reason to push for any higher score than it needed. Obviously your going to have lower scores scores in that scenario.

Yep, I considered all these points too, while writing.... but sadly those are the only datas we can have.

I hope that bragging rights is still an important part of the game.... also because it would be sad if people plays only because 1000-2000MC (5-10 $......)

[Angel of Annihilation]

Stefka Kerensky, on 25 November 2016 - 10:16 AM, said:

Yep, I considered all these points too, while writing.... but sadly those are the only datas we can have. I hope that bragging rights is still an important part of the game.... also because it would be sad if people plays only because 1000-2000MC (5-10 $......)

Don't get me wrong, I like bragging rights as much as the next guy but what I am saying is there isn't all that much incentive anymore to focus on the leaderboards or for that matter play exceptionally. I love seeing my name in the top 75 and it would be really nice to see my name in the number 1 slot one day but I also know I am not really good enough to hit number 1 unless I get exceptionally lucky (because I can hit 300+ scores on matches occasionally). However it just isn't worth the effort it would require of me to attempt to get lucky and get the number 1 slot, when I get the same reward I would get in the 75th slot. I guess that is what I am trying to point out, If there was just a strong incentive for getting into the top 5, I might put in the effort. Hell I got I think 7th place once so I should be able to break the Top 5 if I really tried but why put that much effort in when I can easily get to 30th or 40th place and get the reward? This is why I think the scores are lower than they would be otherwise.

[Hellsgate9999]

So i ended up buying it.
IMO it is fantastic!
I have 2 LLasers and 2 SRM6's on one and i consistently hit 450-600 with him.
I have 2 PPc's on another and with him i do even better. between 500-700 consistently, i got up in the 900's with him a half a dozen times.
The third variant i can't really figure out what to do with. Im trying to make use of the ballistic HP but i can't really make him work right. ive tried UAC20 Ive tried Gauss. idk gonna have to swap omni pods around with him i think.


I love the fact that this guy can MOVE Get in hit the enemy in the back while they are otherwise occupied and get out before anyone knows whats going on. the fact he is a Heavy means if a kodiak walks around the corner you are able to take some hits and still get out of there in one piece. Im having alot of fun with them and i honestly don't understand what the point of mediums are anymore after playing this guy.

Thanks for all the advice and opinions guys. This is my new favorite mech. =)


I actually wish i bought it sooner so i could have participated in the tourney. I am technically new (Gone for 3-4 years) but im doing so well with this guy i feel like i could have hit the leaderboards. (Not trying to toot my own horn)

Edited by Hellsgate9999, 29 November 2016 - 06:48 AM.