56 replies to this topic

[Larsh]

Ever since they did the Arm Buff, I am getting great results out of the Hawks. I run my ROC with 3 ML, 1 AC10, and 2 AMS. I can average 400 - 600 dmg.

And I run a similar build in the 1B with 3ML, 1 AC10, and ECM. It has become a decent mid range brawler in my opinion.

[jss78]

For me the arm armour quirk pass made quite a big difference. Honestly I had put the PXH's on hold waiting for it. Those arms used to come off really quick, but now you tend to have them until your torso is ready to go too.

I tend to run mine as fast-medium skirmishers, not as a pseudo-light. About original movement factor (270'ish engine, full JJ), and put the tonnage towards a decent mid to long range alpha. My current favourite is PXH-2 with 270XL, 6JJ, 12 DHS, 2xERLL, 3xML, ECM.

They are fun to pilot. The agility quirks aren't a game changer but they're fun. I like to put right-arm lasers on RMB and left-arm lasers on LMB. It gives a super intuitive and fun control scheme.

[Steinar Bergstol]

Juodas Varnas, on 22 November 2016 - 11:37 PM, said:

I can't and won't buy the Phoenix hawk, completely based off its ridiculous weapon geometry prioritization.

It's just so bloody random and literally IMPOSSIBLE to make it look like its canonically supposed to look - medium lasers in the vambrace mounts and large laser in the pistol.

I do have the Phawks bought for cash, but _this_ is probably the one thing that truly annoys me about PGI's choices when they modeled the thing. That second Right Arm laser on the PXH-1 should be in the vambrace mount, not a double-barrelled pistol! I don't care if someone at PGI thinks it looks cool, it's still WRONG! WROOOOOOOONG! Sure, give it a double pistol if it has extra hardpoints. Go ahead. Have fun, but don't make the way it's _supposed_ to look an impossibility!

Also the fact that the second pistolbarrel is offset to the side of the gun rather than the first barrel being pushed to the other side so the pistol is symmetrical with the handle under the centerline of the two barrels also irks me.

I am irked! Irked I say!

[Vellron2005]

Alistair Winter, on 22 November 2016 - 07:41 PM, said:

Disclaimer: I am not some l33t comp player. So far this month, my KDR and WLR are just about 1.0 each, which marks me as quite possibly the most mediocre player at Tier 1. However, I do have a lot of posts on the forum.

I first bought the Phoenix Hawk mech pack when it was available for pre-order. Unfortunately, it turned out to be a complete failure of a mech, so I managed to get a refund, thanks to the lovely people at support. But now that PGI finally gave it some sensible quirks, I've bought all the Phoenix C-bill variants. The PXH-1, the PXH-1B, the PXH-1K, the PXH-2 and the PXH-3S. Every terribad, hardpoint starved, oversized Phoenix Hawk that C-bills can buy. And here's what I've learned.

• The PXH-2 is the only one I've managed to brawl with successfully, because it's the only one with both ECM and 6 energy hardpoints. And when I say "successfully", I mean that I can consistently beat someone who is either incompetent or not equipped for brawling.
  
• With the exception of my PXH-2, all my Pee Hawks are mid-range snipers. In my opinion, 3xLL is the best build for several variants. MGs optional.
  
• The PXH has the front profile of a heavy mech, and the structure points of a light mech. It's not a good combination for brawling, in my experience. Then again, the arms aren't very good for sniping, but what are you gonna do?
  
• The PXH-1B is ok with dual ERPPCs, the PXH-3S is ok with dual LPLs. MGs optional.
  
• In a brawl, just about any brawler in the game will beat the Pee Hawk. Doesn't matter how many SPLs or SRM4s or MGs I'm carrying. It doesn't react well to enemy fire.
  
• While it's tempting to experiment with big ballistics on the PXH, like LB10X, AC10 or 2xAC2, they're all rather bad due to lack of ballistic quirks. For example, the CN9-D has almost twice your ROF with the LBX, due to quirks. Whatever advantages the Pee Hawk has over the Centurion don't compensate for this DPS discrepancy.
  
• MASC on the PXH-3S is a complete waste of time. There are 0 builds that make MASC useful, unlike the Shadow Cat.
  
• It's actually quite a fun mech, now that you have +21 armor in the arms. It used to be a piece of trash, and now I believe it has climbed the ranks to claim its title as certifiably... mediocre.

Take my advice for what it's worth. Not a lot. If you're looking for a fun and different experience, the PXH may give you an entertaining challenge. With enough practice, you may get some very, very average results.

Now he tells me!

And I JUST BOUGHT a PXH-2 2 days ago..

So far, I'm still "building it" since I spent my last dime on it.. Still need to convert to DHS.. Was thinking of running it with ERPPC + 3MLAS.. or if that's too hot, switch from ERPPC to a ER large laser..

It's definitely not meant for brawling, more for sniping with ECM.. I think its kinda like a viper.. only slower and larger..

[Alistair Winter]

Paigan, on 23 November 2016 - 12:44 AM, said:

Way to support the company that provids the service you use on a daily basis!

You have no idea how much money I've spent supporting this company, so I can't even muster the energy to care about your criticism.

Paigan, on 23 November 2016 - 12:44 AM, said:

You don't have to be some "comp" player for being able to look at the detailed Mech spec page and roughly evaluate its worth.

Mechs in MWO are hugely dependent on their quirks, which are revealed very late. Also dependent on their hitboxes, which are only revealed once the mech is in-game, and then often adjusted after initial release. Hellbringer had massive CT issues when released, for example.

Paigan, on 23 November 2016 - 12:44 AM, said:

If it's not the uber brawler you wished it was, it's your fault, not theirs. I don't understand why they refund such cases.

I honestly don't care if you don't.

Paigan, on 23 November 2016 - 12:44 AM, said:

Also, you don't really buy performance like it's some new car. You mostly buy a nicely looking Mech and support the people working on keeping the game alive.
Buying first, then getting a refund and then buying per C-Bills is kid of sleazy.

Again, I honestly couldn't care less about your opinion on this matter. The moralistic arguments of "supporting the people working on the game" are so myopic and childish, I don't know where to begin. At what point has anyone supported the game enough to deserve a refund if they're unhappy with their latest purchase? This is a rhetorical question, by the way. Again, you don't know how much money I've spent, and this is a F2P game where one can actually buy every single mech in the game for C-bills, except special variants and hero mechs. Your criticism is absurd. There's nothing to discuss.

Paigan, on 23 November 2016 - 12:44 AM, said:

Oh, and on the topic:
You know the tonnage, you know the hardpoints, you know the customization options.
Use your brain. That's all there is to do.

[Bud Crue]

I did the same as the OP and bought the lot and hated them more than any mech but the loyalty wolverine. Unlike Alistair I was too slow/stupid to get a refund and instead shoved though and mastered them. Post rescale I see no reason to keep the none ecm versions as there are 35 ton lights that do their jobs better. So I kept the 2, the 1B and the K or what I call the Tall 1x...cuz that's what it is an upright BJ-1X (why oh why couldn't they give it JJs, just to make if feel different?). I really, really wanted to like the 3S but I lack the skill to use the MASC effectively so I found that one pointless as well. The rest just seemed utterly bad or redundant so I dumped em (which was actually really hard to do as I know from first hand experience the potential folly of selling mechs)

As to those I kept, the 1B is currently 2MG and 2ERPPCs, and the only reason I run it with ERPPCs is because I wanted it to have a different load out/feel than my 2PPC Panther or 2PPC 4ML BJ-3. I had the 2ERPPCs in the BJ, but switched it in the name of distinctiveness when I dropped them in the Phoenix. The 1B runs hot but if you poptart or just shoot and scoot, its all right. But still if compared to a BJ-3 with two ERPPCs vs this thing...even with ECM...I prefer the BJ. Two high hard points is better than one.

The 2 runs 6spl. Yep its pretty fun if you just go all out and never stop moving/jumping/twisting. I've seen some better players do amazing things in this build.

The K is currently 6spl and 2 flamers, but I have also had some good games running 8ML just firing 4/4 or 6/2. Again though, I think a BJ-1X is tougher and all around better. This thing needs jump jets.

Edited by Bud Crue, 23 November 2016 - 06:01 AM.

[MadHornet]

I've currently (somehow) elited the Phoenix Hawks and now I have my 1K with an XL 355 and 8 SML pulse. It works pretty well, just you have to play it like a medium AND a light, if that makes sense.

Alistair Winter, on 22 November 2016 - 07:41 PM, said:

• MASC on the PXH-3S is a complete waste of time. There are 0 builds that make MASC useful, unlike the Shadow Cat.

Alistair Winter, on 22 November 2016 - 07:41 PM, said:

MASC

I NEVER KNEW ONE OF THEM HAD MASC

BRB MAKING THE FASTEST MEDIUM 'MECH FOR NO REASON

[Y E O N N E]

Alistair Winter, on 22 November 2016 - 09:34 PM, said:

That's not even the Invasion mode special deluxe limited edition Mist Lynx with the spherical skirts of doom.

GTFO.

[Wildstreak]

Alistair Winter, on 22 November 2016 - 09:34 PM, said:

As for the PXH-1, unfortunately PGI gave 2 extra jump jet slots to a mech that has no PPC quirks. Which entirely defeats the point of having 8 jump jets. Why would I equip 8 jump jets on a mech with LLs and MLs? Makes no sense.

Mobility?
Grasshopper-5J with 6.
Spider-5V with 12.
List goes on.
Anyway, now that I can record video due to the new card, when I get the time I will do videos of some Mechs being tested for Jump Jets. Visual data should help clarify things.

[MeiSooHaityu]

When it comes to the Phoenix Hawk standard pack, I really only care for the PXH-1B.

I saw the OP runs it with 2 ERPPCs, but I always find that a bit too hot. I tend to run with 1 ERPPC (shoulder) and 1 PPC (arm). It keeps the heat down a tiny bit. I think they technically have different velocities so I could see not wanting to de-sync the shot when alpha striking, but while playing I never notice the de-sync.

[JadePanther]

Meh i broke 1k damage a few times back when the hawk came out.. i wonder how much i can do with it now.. Of course i was using it with ERLL/LL's like a long distance harasser.. using 3 LL's in various ER combos for what ranges i was engaging at..

ECM plus the speed can allow you to reposition and play the poking game very well.. This gets aided greatly by the MASC.. in fact using the 3S you can play at long range hill humping without LRMS even touching you.. after their 3rd-4th salvo that completely misses you most LRM boats give up trying to hit you.. climb a hill pew pew pew till incoming missle smack MASC reverse n turn to watch them fly right by in front of u.. That speed breaks locks fast.. But the 3S is amazing at flanking and will pwn most assualts at point blank range if you can get the jump on them and get there.. once a 3S gets behind your assualt its just as bad as an ankle biter cause masc will give me the acceleration to stay there or fly around your face.. in fact i'd like to try this with the kdk's newly nerfed torso twist.. the masc also makes you a PITA for lights.. once they realize that you can maneuver just as fast or faster than them they tend to get discouraged a bit.. This is prolly moreso true after the arms buff.

But with the ECM varients you can get up on some nice perches and send your laser gaze to feast upon all manner of prey below.. This is particularly true on viridian bog.. but really its harass and pew pew pew til something takes too much interest in you.. then use speed reposition and repeat.

[Mole]

I rather enjoy my Phoenix Hawk. I don't regret my purchase. The Phoenix Hawk that I kept and mastered was the PXH-1K. And here's how I built it: PXH-1K

Sure it's hot as all holy hell, but if you play is like a Medium Laser Cicada, and it certainly has the speed to do that, it works very well. And since it has two MPLs in the CT even if you lose both your arms, which is something this 'mech is notorious for, you can continue fighting even while missing both arms. This is the variant that doesn't have JJs but I don't feel like I really need them.

[Deathlike]

Yeonne Greene, on 23 November 2016 - 06:13 AM, said:

You're still compensating for something.

I'm ashamed to have the MLX Pack.

[Y E O N N E]

Deathlike, on 23 November 2016 - 06:04 PM, said:

You're still compensating for something.

I'm ashamed to have the MLX Pack.

I'm not. Paid monies specifically for the (I) variant since I already had the A, B, and C for C-bills.

Edit: On a related note, I always notice the people who accuse those of us who drive sports cars Mist Lynx as compensating, tend to drive big-*** SUVs Heavies.

Edited by Yeonne Greene, 23 November 2016 - 06:09 PM.

[FupDup]

Yeonne Greene, on 23 November 2016 - 06:08 PM, said:

I'm not. Paid monies specifically for the (I) variant since I already had the A, B, and C for C-bills.

That makes it even worse. You deliberately paid for the Lynx pack AFTER buying and playing them to free, knowing exactly what kind of mediocrity that you were in for?

[Y E O N N E]

FupDup, on 23 November 2016 - 06:10 PM, said:

That makes it even worse. You deliberately paid for the Lynx pack AFTER buying and playing them to free, knowing exactly what kind of mediocrity that you were in for?

But I have fun with it, which is what I paid for.

Remember, MWO is selling experiences, not products. If I am getting a positive experience out of it, I am getting some value out of it.

[Deathlike]

FupDup, on 23 November 2016 - 06:10 PM, said:

That makes it even worse. You deliberately paid for the Lynx pack AFTER buying and playing them to free, knowing exactly what kind of mediocrity that you were in for?

Somewhere in Vancouver, Someone said:

The Power of Paul compels you!
The Power of Paul compels you!
The Power of Paul compels you...

[L1f3H4ck]

There are two basic approaches to building a mech. You either start with a loadout and role and figure out the best mech to run it, or you start with a mech and try to figure out what works best on it. The Phoenix Hawk will always fall into the latter category, and that's why it's ultimately a bad mech. Everything you want to accomplish with it can be done better with another chassis.

I wanted to like it, I really did. Hey, It's the Phoenix Hawk after all.

Wildstreak, on 22 November 2016 - 09:28 PM, said:

C'mon, gotta be better than Vindicators, same tonnage too.

I wish it was.

Edited by Frechdachs, 23 November 2016 - 07:17 PM.

[Chados]

PXH-1(S), 2xML, LL, AMS, 3xMG, endo, near full armor, 6xJJ, STD 270. Love it. Sold the others and mastered it.

I had the collector pack. Didn't need the other -1 variant...the 1K can't jump...and the 1B and I never meshed. The 1(S) and I just sort of clicked. I average around 200 damage, not too bad for a mech panned as Vindicator level. It's mobile, agile, relatively survivable now, and versatile. It reminds me very much of the old Jester before the Catanerf last summer...but it takes hits better and can drop out of sight much faster. 104 kph speed tweaked, Linebackers are bad juju but we can levitate away from them. A Pixie-1 with 6 jets can make a flat footed jump to the top of the wall on HPG.

I know there are better builds. But this one is superstock and I like it. I also dig the default color scheme. If they'd fix the double pistol and put the second laser on the forearm where it belongs I'd be much happier, tho.

Edited by Chados, 23 November 2016 - 08:02 PM.

[Steinar Bergstol]

Chados, on 23 November 2016 - 07:45 PM, said:

I know there are better builds. But this one is superstock and I like it. I also dig the default color scheme. If they'd fix the double pistol and put the second laser on the forearm where it belongs I'd be much happier, tho.

I still don't get why they went with the double pistol instead of forearm laser on the right arm. A PXH-1 without a right arm forearm laser is a depressed and sad PXH-1! I mean, what in the world were they thinking? That having a forearm laser on one arm and not the other while having a double barreled right hand pistol where the handle of the gun isn't even under the barrels' centerline looks good? That it looks better than a forearm laser on each arm and a COOL single barreled gun would look? Because if that's what they thought then they thought wrong!