56 replies to this topic

[Chados]

I've pinged Russ on this multiple times on Twitter and got zero responses. It wouldn't even be a hard fix, it's just a reorganizing of hardpoint priority. If you put a uAC5 on that arm it uses the forearm, for goodness' sake! If they fixed it I'd put the lasers back to lore distribution to get the LL on the pistol where it ought to be. Right now I have them split left/right. It works fine...but dang it, I want to be able to have it in lore configuration.

[C E Dwyer]

Alistair Winter, on 22 November 2016 - 07:41 PM, said:

stuff

Dammit, I was all keyed up looking forward to a How to Phoenix Hawk You tube, and I got fiddler on the roof, and not even a singing part..

Holy bait and switch disappointment Batman !

[Alistair Winter]

Cathy, on 24 November 2016 - 04:39 AM, said:

Dammit, I was all keyed up looking forward to a How to Phoenix Hawk You tube, and I got fiddler on the roof, and not even a singing part..

Holy bait and switch disappointment Batman !

I suppose I'm a constant disappointment to many people on the forum. And my parents.

But I've almost mastered all my Phoenix Hawks now, so I've got that going for me.

[Sunstruck]

Its a mech that takes a while to get used to, the manuverability and jump jet use are a big factor in how it performs for you. In general the ECM ones are better than the non ECM ones, and the kurita version that doesn't even sport jump jets I had a difficult time with. The arm buffs helped a lot, when they first came out it was pretty rediculous.

It is a multi role mech though, it can snipe or target, or hang out next to your assults with ECM. If its in a bad spot its easy to run away or jump over a hill bringing you to safety. With the weapons on its arms its easier to track lights when your fighting. It runs hot but then what laserboat doesn't.

[MadHornet]

Never mind, I bought the 3S and the 1K is 10 times better. The best build for the 3S is 2 LPL.

[Gaden Phoenix]

Would like to ask which are the 3 variants that I should get? Including heroes?

I like mid range laser pew pew and not really good with srms. Better with lasers and ballistics.

Thanks in advance.

[Moonlight Grimoire]

While this guide is informative, I do not have the PXH-2 that Alister loves. I instead pilot the PXH-1B with a modified stock load out. As such I make use of those MG quirks and the PPC quirks. It is actually highly effective at all ranges that you should be using a swift mobile 45 ton mech at.

• The Phoenix Hawk is a strong strike and fade mech early on. Never mono-build or you will suffer greatly, you need to have the ability to rapidly fire at targets that move to mid and short range while laying down some hurt at longer ranges. For this I suggest an ERLL or PPC (do not use the ERPPC or you will lose too much heat capacity to it and shut down at close range).
  
• The Phoenix Hawk loves to be moving fast and jumping around, it is why the PXH-1K with a mono laser build will get you into a lot more trouble than you can get out of, best solution I have found for the PXH-1K is slap an LL in the CT and 4ML in the arms, dump a standard 280, put it up to 13 DHS, Ferro and Endo, max the armor nix two points in the head. This allows for some poking without threat of losing your LL and you don't die when you inevitably lose an ST. With the arm buffs that the PXH got recently those arms will stay on for awhile longer and 4ML is nothing to sneeze at.
  
• The Phoenix Hawk 1 (current build) is an odd duck in my book, you can run some rather silly builds on it, at first I ran an LB10X on it, now I run 3ML, 2MG, and a UAC5 with an XL270 in it. It works but this variant is a hard one to really work with, as it has that extra ballistic it is heavily suggested in my book you put it to use and dump the idea of having one of your three energy hard points being something harder hitting than an ML or MPL.
  
• The Phoenix Hawk 1B (current build) is my favorite and an absolute beast in my hands. Currently with 171 matches under my belt in it I have 169 kills and a KDR of 2.01, I love it, in fact the 1B was why I even bought the PXH pack. And this will also deal with my point of the other PXH mechs being sub part outside of the standard pack, you aren't getting anything very useful or interesting outside of the standard pack. The PXH-2 allows you to do a 5 ton heavier cicada build with ECM and jump jets by going pure laser vomit, it is silly to me. But, I hate mono builds as they feel off. So my PXH-1B has gone through a few iterations. The initial iteration I ran for a long time was 280XL, ERPPC in the RT, 3ML, and 2MG. This I found too hot and the MG weren't coming into play as much as I had liked so I altered this build to my intermediate build which dropped the MG's and ton of ammo for them for two more DHS. Was still too hot and I often used the ERPPC at close range making brawling impossible due to heat spikes. This is when I learned how to Phoenix Hawk. To Phoenix Hawk you are almost always moving, you are wanting to be agile but not needlessly fast (most builds I see out there call for obscene speed, tweaked at 110kph is the highest you want to go, beyond that you are wasting tonnage). You also want to be able to jump around but max JJ's is questionable option, I find 4 JJ's is around the sweet spot, 5 is worth it if you can afford it but beyond that you fly too fast. With my current build it allows for the sweet spot of mobility, cooling rate and heat capacity, burst damage, and when in close combat the MG quirks actually come into play once the enemy has any unarmored part of the mech you can shoot. This is not an easy way to play, but, I have found it highly effective in my time playing which has had me dumped out of T3 into T2 and T1 matches (I say this due to recognizing names off of the forums at the time I was playing) and even in those fights it has done well.
  
• To me in order to Phoenix Hawk you need to respect the chassis' mobility and use it to your advantage, you also need to not be afraid to jump into combat with it, so long as you aren't sitting on 1-2 weapons that work at short range you will do some serious harm. ECM versions are obviously superior to the non ECM versions as are the Jump Capable versions of the Phoenix Hawk. Not having a dorito over you and being able to rapidly pop up in wildly different locations is a powerful weapon to keep you alive and cripple or at least suppress enemy mechs.
  
• To do double ERPPC or even standard PPC you tie up too much of your tonnage in too few places on the mech, while you get a nice spike in alpha damage that works well together this does not in the end do you favors when an enemy mech with shorter cycle time weapons gets on you, and they will get on you.
  
• When playing the Phoenix Hawk never expect to survive, maximize your time dumping fire and forget weapons like AC's or PPC's and minimize your staring. You do not want to poke from traditional locations as you will lose an arm or side torso in an alpha strike.
  
• As one can see with reviewing my builds for the PXH most contain 3 ML, this is due to 3ML I find to be a strong punch, it is 15 damage with a short burn time that you will often get all into 2 parts. The MG's actually are worth while on the PXH as with the quirk the PXH has they become weapons that will harm an enemy but with only two of them firing the enemy will likely shrug it off as 4 MG is considered dangerous in the meta.
  
• Anticipate and become skilled at twisting an arm into incoming fire for when you can not completely avoid it. This will likely save a side torso from going kaboom and keep you in the fight. This is also why outside of having torso weapons the PXH is exceedingly weak, you rely on those arms not only for fighting but protection.
  
• Lastly I would like to leave off that PXH pilots must be active players you can not be entirely passive players and only re-position when you see a target pop up somewhere, you need to learn the ebb and flow of battle. While this skill is a must for all players it is more so in the PXH as not only must you do so to protect your precious weakly armored mech but also so you can catch foes from the side, rear, above, and below in ways that are unexpected. This mech is meant for ambushes, but not in the sense of the trap Nova with it's maul of lasers, but in the sense of you must repeatedly ambush a foe to bring it down.
  
• I also would like to note that it takes aggression and willingness to do stupid if not suicidally aggressive maneuvers to make this mech shine. Sure you can play with 2LPL or vomit a bunch of small lasers or SPL, but you are doing yourself and your mech a disservice by pushing a narrow minded view onto the chassis. While it will work for some it will more often than not leave you in positions where other mechs excel at what you do and will be unable to disengage or survive a fight. Treat the Phoenix Hawk like an assault, it is all about positioning, timing, but also like a light, that enemies that are heavier than you will kill you in six seconds at most and that you can not run away from other light mechs. This is why I suggest having a set of weapons for close and a set of weapons for mid to long range as it allows you to use this mech's flexibility and minimize it's draw backs.

[Angel of Annihilation]

Honestly I don't understand why people bash the PHX, they really aren't half bad and I will even go as far as saying they can be quite good.

Currently I have 43 matches under my PHX-2's belt and I am averaging 328 damage per match and a 2.42 K/D with it which makes it one of the best mechs I run. Overall I find the mech extremely fun to play because it is exceptionally agile, has excellent JJ capability and very decent firepower for a 45 ton mech. I also find it tanky and for whatever reason, I never had the same issues with its arms falling off as other people complain about. Now that it got the armor buff to the arms it is even better.

Honestly I think that the reason people don't do well with the PHX is that they don't understand them. I still say that the issue is people keep trying to turn them into a Firestarter replacement and play them like a Light mech but that debate has been hashed out over and over a couple times.

Gaden Phoenix, on 27 November 2016 - 06:45 PM, said:

Would like to ask which are the 3 variants that I should get? Including heroes? I like mid range laser pew pew and not really good with srms. Better with lasers and ballistics. Thanks in advance.

The one you absolutely want for sure is the PHX-2. ECM and 6 Energy hardpoints. I also run the PHX-1B (because of ECM) and the PHX-1K because of the 8 Energy Hardpoints. No JJs on the 1K though so that is kind of a bummer and I am not sure the extra hardpoints are worth not having JJs for.

Build wise I run the following:

PHX-2: 2 x LL, 3 x ML, ECM, 6 JJ
PHX-1B: 1 x ER PPC, 3 x ML, ECM, 6 JJ
PHX-1K: 6 x ML, 2 x SL

Forget the engine sizes but all run around 100 kph give or take a few kph.

Of the rest, I am ranking them in order of how much potential they have.

1 - The PHX-3S looks somewhat interesting because of MASC and might be worth a look in place of the 1K. I would probably run it with 2 x LPL and 1 ML, a 270 XL engine, 6 JJ and MASC. Another option would be to ignore the quirks and just slap on 3 x LL. Honestly tempted to buy this variant even though I don't need it just to see how it plays out. Also ranked number 1 because it is available for C-bills.

2 - The ROC also looks interesting and I am half tempted to pick it up on the sale tomorrow. Would probably run that with 1 x LPL, 2 x MPL and 2 x SRM4 and which gives it decent firepower. Obviously I will run it with 6 JJs too. Great paint job too.

3 - Kuroi Kiri might be ok. Would probably go 2 x LL, 2 x MPL, 2 X MG with it which should give it decent firepower. MGs are kind of worthless because in general I don't feel you really want to be brawling in a PHX. Full 6 JJs again.

4 - Don't think the PHX-1 is really worth it. It is basically the PHX-3S without the MASC, Though tossing 3 x LL and maxing out the JJs to 8 so that it can really fly might actually be interesting.

[HauptmanT]

I really enjoy the Penix Hawk-2. I run a 290xl (I think) and 6 med pulse lasers. ECM makes it able to get away with being slower, and 6 pulses will wub their butts off real nice.

I also kept the ecm/ppc variant. Really not liking that one as much, I cant hit squat with PPCs yet (something like a 40% hit-rate) so went with a LPL instead, and 3 MPL in the arms. Same engine on both.

Only wanted them for the ECM so sold off the third as soon as I finished basicing it out.

[Alistair Winter]

Gaden Phoenix, on 27 November 2016 - 06:45 PM, said:

Would like to ask which are the 3 variants that I should get? Including heroes?
I like mid range laser pew pew and not really good with srms. Better with lasers and ballistics.
Thanks in advance.

If you don't like SRMs, then don't get any of the hero mechs. The Kuroi Kiri does not have any special abilities except 2AMS, which is pretty worthless, compared to other benefits.

I would get the PXH-1B and PXH-2, which are the ECM variants. Both can run mid range lasers and ballistics, though I don't really recommend ballistics on the Phoenix Hawk. I mean, you could put an LB10X on the PXH, but you have no ballistic quirks, so you have literally half the DPS / ROF of the Centurion. In other words, very low DPS and very low burst damage compared to most other medium mechs.

For the third variant, it really depends on your preferences. Do you want jump jets or higher firepower? If you want jump jets, both the PXH-1 and PXH-3S are alright. If you want higher firepower without jump jets, the PXH-1K is your guy. I would probably go for jump jets, because the PXH is so dependent on mobility.

Keep in mind that MASC is absolutely worthless. You're better off getting a bigger engine than investing 2 tons on MASC.

Moonlight Grimoire, on 27 November 2016 - 07:41 PM, said:

While this guide is informative, I do not have the PXH-2 that Alister loves. I instead pilot the PXH-1B with a modified stock load out. As such I make use of those MG quirks and the PPC quirks. It is actually highly effective at all ranges that you should be using a swift mobile 45 ton mech at.

Nice. While I don't agree with everything you write, it's always good to have different points of view.

Viktor Drake, on 27 November 2016 - 08:06 PM, said:

Honestly I don't understand why people bash the PHX, they really aren't half bad and I will even go as far as saying they can be quite good.

I think it's one of the many mechs that appears to be terrible for low tier players who don't have the finesse to make use of an agility-based mech. At the opposite end of the spectrum, elite players will compare it to the best medium mechs in the game, like the HBK IIC, Nova, Stormcrow, and ask whether the PXH holds up. Elite players are also facing better opponents with better aim, so significant weaknesses (like having all the weapons in the arms) is a bigger deal for them.

For the majority of MWO players, I'd say the PXH is fine. That's why I called it mediocrein the OP. If its quirks were getting adjusted, would it needs to be buffed or nerfed? I think 99% of the players would say that it needs to be buffed rather than nerfed.

It's also a problem in MWO that heavy mechs tend to outperform most medium mechs at everything. The PXH is ok for a medium mech, but in the bigger picture, being "ok for a medium mech" isn't very good at all.

[jss78]

Gaden Phoenix, on 27 November 2016 - 06:45 PM, said:

Would like to ask which are the 3 variants that I should get? Including heroes?

I like mid range laser pew pew and not really good with srms. Better with lasers and ballistics.

Thanks in advance.

Viktor Drake, on 27 November 2016 - 08:06 PM, said:

Build wise I run the following:

PHX-2: 2 x LL, 3 x ML, ECM, 6 JJ

I run what seems to be an identical build in my PXH-2. For me it's by far the best variant. The 1K with 2 additional torso hardpoints used to be appealing, but with the arm buffs I'll take the ECM and JJ's any day now.

Overall I tend to do best running the PXH's as "real" mediums instead of trying to be a LCT/ACH. So about original engine rating, full JJ's every time, and put the XL/Endo/Ferro weight savings towards more guns.

The others I'm having real trouble finding a "keeper" loadout with. The ROC is kind of fun with 270XL, 6 JJ, LPL+2ML+2SRM4, but I just tend to pick the PXH-2 every time for matches.

The 3S has a fun loadout with Endo, Ferro, 340XL+MASC, max JJ, LPL+2ML. The speed is kind of silly and you can poke a bit, but again with clan tech the ACH does the same at 35-tonner size + ECM.

[jss78]

Alistair Winter, on 27 November 2016 - 11:36 PM, said:

Keep in mind that MASC is absolutely worthless. You're better off getting a bigger engine than investing 2 tons on MASC.

I'm going to ... cautiously disagree. I haven't run the PXH-3S much, but the Loyalty MASC-Phract has kind of made me a believer.

The bottom line is that you get considerably better burst speed with MASC than by increasing engine rating with the same tonnage.

While I agree with the adage "speed is life", to me in practice you only need that maximal speed situationally, while in most cases you are just fine going slower, even much slower. And that's what MASC does -- gain a lot of burst speed while dropping a little bit of "cruise" speed if you will.

The math works increasingly in the favour of MASC as you go to bigger engine ratings, as the km/h return for added engine tonnage gets worse. For example with the PXH-3S, you'll gain 2.5 tons by dropping from XL-355 just to XL-340, allowing you to add MASC plus save half a ton. I'd pick the 340+MASC any day.

[Gaden Phoenix]

I got meself the PHX-1B to test. My Goodness, it takes alot of work to do the same amount of dmg as my heavy.

But is FUN to play. Easiest playstyle for me is 2PPCs and jumpjets. But at only 20dmg per pop, it takes alot time to get your dmg counter up.

Edited by Gaden Phoenix, 28 November 2016 - 01:16 AM.

[Alistair Winter]

jss78, on 28 November 2016 - 12:28 AM, said:

I'm going to ... cautiously disagree. I haven't run the PXH-3S much, but the Loyalty MASC-Phract has kind of made me a believer.
The bottom line is that you get considerably better burst speed with MASC than by increasing engine rating with the same tonnage.
While I agree with the adage "speed is life", to me in practice you only need that maximal speed situationally, while in most cases you are just fine going slower, even much slower. And that's what MASC does -- gain a lot of burst speed while dropping a little bit of "cruise" speed if you will.
The math works increasingly in the favour of MASC as you go to bigger engine ratings, as the km/h return for added engine tonnage gets worse. For example with the PXH-3S, you'll gain 2.5 tons by dropping from XL-355 just to XL-340, allowing you to add MASC plus save half a ton. I'd pick the 340+MASC any day.

The problem with MASC on the Phoenix Hawk, like the Shadow Cat, is that you have a mech that is really hardpoint-starved. Hardpoint-starved mechs rely more on bigger weapons. Bigger weapons are heavier. Heavier weapons leave less room for big engines.

For example, if you could run a 6 SPL build on the PXH-3S or the SHC, then you would get good firepower and low heat for only 6 tons of weight. However, you don't have 6E hardpoints, so you can either equip something like XL325, MASC, 3MPL and 2MG, or something like this and find yourself outgunned by just about any mech in the game, or you can run something like 2PPC, 2LPL or 3LL and actually have a little bit of a niche at mid-range.

In other words, the XL340+MASC would be useful if you had more hardpoints. But since you are hardpoint-starved, I think it's better to equip a smaller engine and some bigger guns. Without ECM and without enough hardpoints, I wouldn't really want a big engine on the Phoenix Hawk anyway. The speed seems pointless, like putting an XL375 engine on a Centurion D-variant. It doesn't have enough hardpoints to take advantage of the speed anyway.

Just my 2 cents.

Gaden Phoenix, on 28 November 2016 - 12:59 AM, said:

I got meself the PHX-1B to test. My Goodness, it takes alot of work to do the same amount of dmg as my heavy.

But is FUN to play. Easiest playstyle for me is 2PPCs and jumpjets. But at only 20dmg per pop, it takes alot time to get your dmg counter up.

Definitely. The PPC Poptart Hawk is a lot of fun, but you'll rarely break 400 damage. I equip MGs just to get some heat-free extra damage at close range, but I also run 2ERPPC instead of 2PPC, which means I have lower DPS anyway.

I think the best PXH build for me is the 3LL build. Boring, but effective at both close and medium range.

[jss78]

Alistair Winter, on 28 November 2016 - 03:42 AM, said:

The problem with MASC on the Phoenix Hawk, like the Shadow Cat, is that you have a mech that is really hardpoint-starved. Hardpoint-starved mechs rely more on bigger weapons. Bigger weapons are heavier. Heavier weapons leave less room for big engines.

For example, if you could run a 6 SPL build on the PXH-3S or the SHC, then you would get good firepower and low heat for only 6 tons of weight. However, you don't have 6E hardpoints, so you can either equip something like XL325, MASC, 3MPL and 2MG, or something like this and find yourself outgunned by just about any mech in the game, or you can run something like 2PPC, 2LPL or 3LL and actually have a little bit of a niche at mid-range.

In other words, the XL340+MASC would be useful if you had more hardpoints. But since you are hardpoint-starved, I think it's better to equip a smaller engine and some bigger guns. Without ECM and without enough hardpoints, I wouldn't really want a big engine on the Phoenix Hawk anyway. The speed seems pointless, like putting an XL375 engine on a Centurion D-variant. It doesn't have enough hardpoints to take advantage of the speed anyway.

Just my 2 cents.

Yeah, if I look at it from that angle, I do agree. I'm also running the Phoenix Hawks with smallish engines (270-300) and put quite a lot of tonnage towards guns. But in other cases, when you're really starved for speed, MASC is wonderful. My Loyalty-'phract packs quite a decent alpha, but is ... s l u g g i s h ... and MASC is fantastic for getting those guns where they're needed most, and for getting back to cover.

[Chados]

The PXH-1 is my currently most-selected ride. As posted above, 270 STD, 1xLL, 2xML, 3xMG, AMS, endo, near max armor, 6xJJ.

It is said to be the worst chassis of the second-worst mech in the game. But I find it very enjoyable.

How to survive and succeed? Be mobile. Be agile. Be aggressive. And think in three dimensions. PHX drivers have to have the courage of a Locust pilot, the reflexes of a Jenner driver, the awareness of an Arctic Cheetah operator. They've got to be as aggressive as a Night Gyr or a Kodiak. It's like being a Chihuahua in a room full of Dobermans-your mantra is "No Fear" and your credo is "stick and move."

Cover assaults and heavies from hunting lights. Ambush other mediums. Scout from on high. Lean In when your allies are in the thick of battle. Knock down UAVs. I get more scouting bonuses than I thought possible. The poster above that spoke of having to be near-suicidal to run a PHX on the battlefield was accurate. It's never dull in the Pixie. Never. I only average about 140-350 damage but in matches I'm on the winning side of I average 10 assists and "Protected Medium" in the 20s.

Edited by Chados, 28 November 2016 - 04:19 AM.

[Tarl Cabot]

Quote

For this I suggest an ERLL or PPC (do not use the ERPPC or you will lose too much heat capacity to it and shut down at close range).

Strongly suggest ERPPC. Just remember the PPC does no damage under 90m, and when you are about to die while being surrounded by enemies without the ability to take one more out with you...it is like having a ballistic/missiles with no ammo.