76 replies to this topic

[Quicksilver Aberration]

ugrakarma, on 23 November 2016 - 01:56 PM, said:

Hunchback 4P is imho the best starter mech and it's still very useful in pugs up to T1.

It is much less useful up to tier 1, but the point is, that it should be something that is meta compliant so they learn how to play better and get into good practices using them, as opposed to taking some mech that is crap and not quite understanding why it did so well before and all the sudden doesn't. I would've said Sparky though if I could since it is better than the 4P. It also gives variety since it isn't a laser vomit or dakka vomit mech, but if laser vomit is desired, the ENF-4R is a better choice than the 4P as well.

ugrakarma, on 23 November 2016 - 01:56 PM, said:

The rest of the HBK variants are also good and fun to play while I can't say the same for Griffin.

I can name 3 Griffin variants that are easily some of the best in the weight class (1E, 2N, 3M), can you do the same with the HBK? Sure the 1S and 1N are less than satisfactory, but so are the HBKs that aren't the 4SP.

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 23 November 2016 - 02:11 PM.

[Tordin]

Zieten, on 23 November 2016 - 12:11 PM, said:

HAHA! A ZEUS!! they got to be kiddin, right?

Sure it got bigger but... cant you handle it? I like that mech, sturdy and trustworthy

[LT. HARDCASE]

TercieI, on 23 November 2016 - 01:46 PM, said:

Seems like they hate money, for a change.

My tin foil greatness says they purposely overprice the Performance Packs, to give more perceived value to the real mech packs.The format legitimately might convince a person to just go buy 2 or 3 $20 packs instead.

[BlueFlames]

Three of those packs have chassis that are at least decent. The light pack, though? A (giant) Panther and a Myst Lynx? What's the Steam retention rate again?

[Scandinavian Jawbreaker]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 23 November 2016 - 02:08 PM, said:

It is much less useful up to tier 1, but the point is, that it should be something that is meta compliant so they learn how to play better and get into good practices using them, as opposed to taking some mech that is crap and not quite understanding why it did so well before and all the sudden doesn't. I would've said Sparky though if I could since it is better than the 4P. It also gives variety since it isn't a laser vomit or dakka vomit mech, but if laser vomit is desired, the ENF-4R is a better choice than the 4P as well.


I can name 3 Griffin variants that are easily some of the best in the weight class (1E, 2N, 3M), can you do the same with the HBK? Sure the 1S and 1N are less than satisfactory, but so are the HBKs that aren't the 4SP.

I see we have a fundamental disagreement on what is playable mech in pug queue. I understand that you lean towards meta mechs and improving gameplay by that but like I said I really don't see the need for selling only top tier meta (that in fact is changing from time to time) if the chassis is not s#$t. We also have a fundamental disagreement on HBK-4P being good or not However it has always survived as a very good variant from the days of closed beta even if buffed or nerfed. ENF 4R and HBK 4P have very different playstyles, so I really wouldn't put them on comparison.

Yeah of course the Griffin is one of the best chassis still, but that doesn't say the HBK is bad or it should be taken away from the pack. HBK offers several different weapon platforms for LRMs, AC and brawl. I myself value diversity more than effectiveness in theoretical comp meta considering probably less than 1% of MWO players go to comp. In the end it is a matter of taste and I just disagree on this one.

[Bombast]

LT. HARDCASE, on 23 November 2016 - 02:25 PM, said:

My tin foil greatness says they purposely overprice the Performance Packs, to give more perceived value to the real mech packs.The format legitimately might convince a person to just go buy 2 or 3 $20 packs instead.

No tin foil required. They're just passing the Steam tax to the consumer.

[Tristan Winter]

BlueFlames, on 23 November 2016 - 02:34 PM, said:

Three of those packs have chassis that are at least decent. The light pack, though? A (giant) Panther and a Myst Lynx? What's the Steam retention rate again?

PGI's tactic when it comes to sales has always been to trick new players into terrible deals. One bird in the hand beats two in the bush, they figure. So better to rip everyone off right away instead of trying to actually make players stay because their first purchase wasn't a waste of money.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

ugrakarma, on 23 November 2016 - 02:39 PM, said:

I understand that you lean towards meta mechs and improving gameplay by that but like I said I really don't see the need for selling only top tier meta

The only "top tier meta" that doesn't work in solo queue as well, is brawling and extreme range. As long as the meta mech has mid to long it works just fine in PUGs. The meta in PUGs is but a subset of the comp meta.

ugrakarma, on 23 November 2016 - 02:39 PM, said:

probably less than 1% of MWO players go to comp.

It is higher than that, especially given the number of players involved with MRBC. That said, diversity doesn't help new players really learn and shouldn't be the focus of a "performance" starter pack, it should be about doing well and what helps new players do just that.

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 23 November 2016 - 03:21 PM.

[Scandinavian Jawbreaker]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 23 November 2016 - 03:18 PM, said:

It is higher than that, especially given the number of players involved with MRBC. That said, diversity doesn't help new players really learn and shouldn't be the focus of a "performance" starter pack, it should be about doing well and what helps new players do just that.

Perhaps higher. I find it odd that you say that since MRBC especially aims at diversity with it's ruleset and even LRMs are not unheard of there. Also MRBC is the only competitive option we have and not all can be KDK-3 pilots so to say.

[Dee Eight]

Why is it so hard to understand, before whining on THIS forum about the value of these pack's and their mech options, that the steam packs are NOT designed with established MWO players in mind, other than offering (S) versions to people who already enjoy those variants. They're designed primarily for totally new to the game players, coming via the steam interface, who may not want to commit to the game with grinding to earn cbills, and spending loads of money on MC to buy camo patterns and colors and actual MC. When they go on sale, is when the value increases for established players. I waited on the first generation packs until the 40% off sale last month to buy them.

Also why was it so hard to understand what might get picked for the second version packs ? They (S) version existing champion (C) version mechs, with matching builds. Current list of champions used for trial mechs was where they were going to pick from (as was the same case last year), so 8 from the 16 available. At least the IS ones they picked all have DHS, XL engines and are endo/FF optimized already for their weapons load.

[Y E O N N E]

Dee Eight, on 23 November 2016 - 04:58 PM, said:

At least the IS ones they picked all have DHS, XL engines and are endo/FF optimized already for their weapons load.

Technically, so do the Clan ones.

[Dee Eight]

Yeonne Greene, on 23 November 2016 - 05:16 PM, said:

Technically, so do the Clan ones.

My point was the first series of steam packs, three of the four IS mechs had standard engines. So in this way the new packs are improved.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

ugrakarma, on 23 November 2016 - 04:57 PM, said:

I find it odd that you say that since MRBC especially aims at diversity

It forces people to play different mechs for the sake of variety, but that doesn't mean those other mechs are good to learn how to play until you are already starting to get good.

[Deathlike]

LT. HARDCASE, on 23 November 2016 - 01:36 PM, said:

Panther and a Mist Lynx? That pack will fly off of the shelves.

Anyone who ignorantly spends $39.99 on the pack will rage quit the game, before they clear the Cadet Bonus.

PGI foresight is at an all time low.

Appogee, on 23 November 2016 - 01:45 PM, said:

You just have to wonder what PGI are thinking when they make decisions like these.

I'm pretty close to convinced this is nearing the end of the line.

I would not even try to shove these mechpacks into my enemies, let alone my friends.

This is either out of touch or the obvious "maintenance mode" sign that PGI's putting up. Both don't have to be mutually exclusive either.

[Y E O N N E]

Deathlike, on 23 November 2016 - 05:51 PM, said:

I'm pretty close to convinced this is nearing the end of the line.

I would not even try to shove these mechpacks into my enemies, let alone my friends.

This is either out of touch or the obvious "maintenance mode" sign that PGI's putting up. Both don't have to be mutually exclusive either.

We will find out at...MehCon.

Edited by Yeonne Greene, 23 November 2016 - 05:53 PM.

[Scandinavian Jawbreaker]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 23 November 2016 - 05:45 PM, said:

It forces people to play different mechs for the sake of variety, but that doesn't mean those other mechs are good to learn how to play until you are already starting to get good.

Depends how you look at it. When you git gud on other mechs meta is ez mode

[Trollfeed]

"This pack features 2 popular Light 'Mechs each with 30% C-Bill boost and custom load outs built for performance."

Wait what, popular? Mist lynx is least played clan mech and you see panthers even less. Those are mechs you pick when you can't feel anything anymore in this game and want to feel like a new player facing impossible odds.

I don't have mist lynx but panther is fun to play if you know what you are doing, but it's one of the last mechs I would recommend for a new player. And that cheapest pack is one that poor fool is going to buy if he buys anything at all. And suffer.

[Requiemking]

Tordin, on 23 November 2016 - 02:24 PM, said:

Sure it got bigger but... cant you handle it? I like that mech, sturdy and trustworthy

Your feelings for the Zeus match my feelings about the Orion. Yes, he is basically a budget Atlas, but he is faster and packs a similar punch and lasts longer thank to not having most of his weapons be SRMs. A healthy, enraged Orion materialising in your rear line is a sure-fire ticket to a bad day.

[Dodger79]

Dee Eight, on 23 November 2016 - 04:58 PM, said:

Why is it so hard to understand, before whining on THIS forum about the value of these pack's and their mech options, that the steam packs are NOT designed with established MWO players in mind, other than offering (S) versions to people who already enjoy those variants. They're designed primarily for totally new to the game players, coming via the steam interface, who may not want to commit to the game with grinding to earn cbills, and spending loads of money on MC to buy camo patterns and colors and actual MC. When they go on sale, is when the value increases for established players. I waited on the first generation packs until the 40% off sale last month to buy them.

Also why was it so hard to understand what might get picked for the second version packs ? They (S) version existing champion (C) version mechs, with matching builds. Current list of champions used for trial mechs was where they were going to pick from (as was the same case last year), so 8 from the 16 available. At least the IS ones they picked all have DHS, XL engines and are endo/FF optimized already for their weapons load.

But, that is the actual problem with these packs! Given a Newbie wants to try the game without having to grind that much in the beginning and therefore chooses the most inexpensive pack (read: the light pack). Then he has a huuuuuge Panther that moves slower than most Heavies (and to an extend Assaults, too) with barely no weapons and a Myst Lynx, which is, well, a Mist Lynx. It's undesired for reasons, several reasons. So, to make these Mechs somehow competetive, he first has to grind a lot to get all the money for the customization, because out of the box these Mechs suck. But wait? What was the reason to dish out real money? Cutting the grind. Oh, that went well...

If you want to piss off Newbies and make them stay away from the game and warn all of their friends to NOT try MWO, that's a good plan! But if you want to appeal to new players and make the first steps in the game a fun experience when you pay for it, you definetly need Mechs that are just good (or better: amazing) out of the box. More so if they have a price tag on them that equals or exceeds that of complete AAA-titles...

Honestly, PGI has to get to know their own game FAR better, because only when they understand it themselves good decisions can be made. And not something like this...

Edited by Dodger79, 24 November 2016 - 01:02 AM.

[Snazzy Dragon]

Dee Eight, on 23 November 2016 - 04:58 PM, said:

Why is it so hard to understand, before whining on THIS forum about the value of these pack's and their mech options, that the steam packs are NOT designed with established MWO players in mind, other than offering (S) versions to people who already enjoy those variants. They're designed primarily for totally new to the game players, coming via the steam interface, who may not want to commit to the game with grinding to earn cbills, and spending loads of money on MC to buy camo patterns and colors and actual MC. When they go on sale, is when the value increases for established players. I waited on the first generation packs until the 40% off sale last month to buy them.

Also why was it so hard to understand what might get picked for the second version packs ? They (S) version existing champion (C) version mechs, with matching builds. Current list of champions used for trial mechs was where they were going to pick from (as was the same case last year), so 8 from the 16 available. At least the IS ones they picked all have DHS, XL engines and are endo/FF optimized already for their weapons load.

Panther and mist lynx are probably two of the most unforgiving mechs in this game, definitely not suited for new and unexperienced players. I would rather see new players try out the raven and cheetah, or a big STD firestarter with medium lasers; the adder prime would have been a better choice for this steam pack because of the number of good builds for it. UAC20 with 3 small lasers, double PPC near-stock fit, 5 medium pulses, SRM6+Ax4 are a few good examples.

No gripes from me about the medium pack. Good choices.

IS XL heavies tend to be pretty rough for new players but both of those heavies are really solid.

The inclusion of the Zeus is a joke though. Too tall, too fat, too slow, underarmored. I wouldn't wish that mech on anyone unless they're an absolute fan of the mech. This one is fast at least but XL zeus is kind of a meme and the weaponry looks like a weak heavy's loadout in my opinion. 3 med pulses aren't too threatening and there are plenty of mechs that can carry more SRM punch.

Edited by Snazzy Dragon, 24 November 2016 - 01:32 AM.