58 replies to this topic

[Lipot]

Given the fire power that the stock Hunchback carries, anyone that over looks that 'mech is as good a gone. Everyone tends to over look medium 'mechs to start due to the fact that the other classes tend to out shine them in one way or another. But every medium is a multipurpose work horse. The Hunchback was known for close quarters urban warfare. Fast moving and carrying almost the same amount of fire power as most heavies, it is something that every weight class has to worry about. What will make the Hunchback not be popular to start is that everyone knows what the AC/20 can do. And until we start seeing "field mods" (player customization) only fools and gangs will approach them at close range.

[Shadowscythe]

Since this is a lot like another medium mech topic I decided to copy a comment of mine from it, over to here

If you take out info we have no idea about (other than actual videos in action), like specifics;
torso twist speed,
module slots,
accelerate/stopping speeds,
turning radius, and others...

Then you take out some of the personal preferences;
Appearence,
how big of a target your mech is (if that matters to you),
if you like normal humanoid legs or reverse joint (chicken legs),
mechs with hands (no use for hands right now that we know of) or weapon stumps (which can't aim off the to side as well in MWO, that someone heard somewhere, can't think of exact quote, might look for it later),
and some others


Pretty much comes down to Hardpoints, and Max speed-Max armor/tonnage for weapons sliding scale.

Which ALSO involves some personal preferences because some people don't like being slow, others don't like balistics and so on.
Some like a mech with jump jets (me), other people don't care about them.

• MAX SPEED--------------------------------------------------------------MAX ARMOR-tonnage for weapons
  
• <----------------------------------------------------------------------------------->
  
• Light___________medium______________heavy____________assault

A light can never carry the same amount of exact same armor type that a class heavier than it can








An assault will never get up to max speeds that a light can get up to or even a medium for that matter.

For example (sorry, these are going to be in BT TT stats since I don't know the conversion speeds, can probably look them up on sarna or something)

These number are ONLY internal structure and engine...these are also MAX speeds. not the speed they are going to go by default.... example...the default hunchback is 4/6....The below is also assuming that you can't buy partial engine upgrades, like changing from 31kph to 32KPH

BEFORE XL engines (skipping mech tonnages that aren't confirmed to be in game) And no ferro armor or endo structure

• Tonnage, name, MAX speed--tonnage to spare______stats after engine downgrade
  
• 
  
• 25ton Commando 11/17 --1_____10/15 4
  
• 35ton Raven, Jenner 9/14--3______8/12--9.5
  
• 40ton Cicada 8/12--6.5______7/11--14
  
• 50ton Hunchback, Centurion 7/11--8.5______6/9--20
  
• 60ton Dragon 6/9--14_____5/8--29
  
• 65ton Catapult 6/9--5.5_____5/8--28
  
• 70ton Cataphract 5/8--26.5____4/6--41
  
• 80ton Awesome 5/8--12.5____4/6--42.5
  
• 85ton Stalker 4/6--42.5_____3/5--57.5
  
• 100ton Atlas 4/6--30.5_____3/5--60

(copied from my old post, might do the newer mech releases later)




Sorry if not all those number are exact. AND they could even be different since the devs might have tweaked some.
These are BEFORE XL engine....all the speeds will be higher MAX with a XL engine



Other side of it is Even if you take your 35ton jenner down to the speed of an Atlas (3/5) you would have 23 tons of free space. and a max armor value of 119..the Atlas has 60 tons left and max armor vaule of 307.

BUT at a point people will forgo personal preferance for "what definately works best"...So it will also be up to the devs to maintain a form of balance...
Obviously the only way to have "near perfect" balance (other than skill) is for there to be only 1 mech chassis, with 1 weapon in the entire game, on a flat lakebed, in a perfect circle, and I wouldn't play that game



http://mwomercs.com/...hs/page__st__40 would be the previous topic...It also has the BT TT speeds to KPH speed chart



PS...I don't get all this talk about a stock hunchback being fast It is a 4/6 stock (same speed as a catapult....an atlas is 3/5)

Edited by Shadowscythe, 19 July 2012 - 01:08 PM.

[Huntsman]

Jason1138, on 19 July 2012 - 10:43 AM, said:

"What is the role of the hunchback? It's not fast enough to scout. It's role is to do what an atlas or catapult might do, only do it much worse."




it does more damage at short range than the Catapult and is probably faster too. It has jumpjets and the Atlas doesn't, is faster than an Atlas, and probably costs less to repair

so there's that

The repair costs are an unknown but they had better be pretty extreme for the hunchback make sense. Vs the Catapult, a stint into mechbay will allow you turn put SRMs on instead of LRMs and mak it a close range terror. While the chassis ar entirely differerent, the Catapult and Hunchback can both be optimized for long range or short range and their speeds are not dramatically different. Aside from the pult having more armor and more space for weaponery and gear, it also doesn't keep all its eggs in 1 basket. While its ears can be a vulnerability, the HB puts most of its firepower all in one basket so that's what everyone is aiming for. Potentially worse, if it turns out that the main gun is part of the HB's side torso, not only will you be destroying its main weapon but also putting it on deaths door at the same time. If you take out a Cataplts missile launcher, not only does it have another one, but you haven't harmed any components that would destroy the mech.

Being faster than the Atlas and having jump jets can only put you at an advantage if combat isn't your role, but perhaps base capping. If that's the case, however, and mobility is more critical, then you would want the Jenner.

The medium mechs is a jack of all trades, none of which it does particularly well I'm afraid. It's hopelesslly outgunned, can't scout, and while it may be slightly more mobile than the Catapult, it's not by much. I can only hope that the game mechanics do indeed require tonnage limits or there are stiff repair costs, because I'm afraid the "workhorse" of the Battlefield will be the red headed stepchild in this game.

[PewPew]

Med mechs like the Hunchie are like standard infantry. You can't win wars with only recon, fire support, and fortresses. Winning battles like the ones in BT are about mobility. You need to be able to move around the battlefield at a reasonable pace while still being able to put out firepower.

[Soviet Alex]

We've had a LOT of threads on this topic over the past few months. In at least one of them Paul answered that mediums turn quicker and torso-twist quicker than heavies and assaults. This would make the close-in Hunchbacks excellent knife-fighters. If it can circle a larger target quickly enough to stay out of the other guy's crosshairs whilst concentrating damage on one side, it'll have a chance against much bigger prey. Doing that in a scout would take too long.

Also, as has been mentioned about, the Hunchback has a incredible range of variants with wildly different hardpoint layouts. From what we've seen, the Hunchback has more Mech-Lab potential than any other mech at launch.

[Khobai]

Medium mechs are likely going to be backbone of most companies. Because they're fast enough to avoid getting hit and can still mount some pretty hard hitting weapons. From the looks of it, Hunchbacks can have some really decent configurations too like 6 medium lasers and a UAC5.

[Lord Exalted]

this is because you miss what mediums do they are generalists. they have speed fire power and armor and unlike most heavys they dont have a very specialsed hard pt setup. gangs of mediums will rule the field i bet. much more then swarms of any other weight class

[Shad0wsFury]

I was skeptical too when I first thought about the choice of the hunchback, but I think the 4P variant is where it's going to shine. It's one of the few mechs you're gonna be able to laser boat (I know this is not what some people wanna hear, but v0v). From what I understand, you can also upgrade the engine on your mechs, so you could get it up to 80kph easy, probably even 90kph+ with an extra-light engine. That is more than fast enough to scout with, and with a ton of medium lasers (or some other lasers), you're going to maim them if you can get in close with your speed.

The only thing the Hunchback really lacks that might hurt its scouting is jumping ability.

[Khobai]

Quote

Its funny seeing all this love for the hunchback in MWO. In the classic Battletech world its a rather maligned mech to say the least. Guess the way the game playes on a PC as opposed to the tabletop version will make it more popular.

Thats because in class battletech its stuck with a crappy AC/20 which is like one of the worst weapons there is. In MWO you can strip that garbage out and replace it with something good.

[Jakob Knight]

Shad0wsFury, on 21 July 2012 - 05:28 AM, said:

I was skeptical too when I first thought about the choice of the hunchback, but I think the 4P variant is where it's going to shine. It's one of the few mechs you're gonna be able to laser boat (I know this is not what some people wanna hear, but v0v). From what I understand, you can also upgrade the engine on your mechs, so you could get it up to 80kph easy, probably even 90kph+ with an extra-light engine. That is more than fast enough to scout with, and with a ton of medium lasers (or some other lasers), you're going to maim them if you can get in close with your speed.

The only thing the Hunchback really lacks that might hurt its scouting is jumping ability.

Actually, you can get it up to the ground speed of a Jenner if you go all-out on the engine, and up the the ground speed of a Spider with an XL engine. You won't have much left for weapons and/or armor, but you'll bring more than the scout mech. Makes the HBK a very nasty option to hunt light mechs if you customize it for that role.

Edited by Jakob Knight, 21 July 2012 - 05:39 AM.

[Jason1138]

the assault mechs are gonna be pretty slow. i think alot of you guys dont realize how slow

i would be willing to bet an average medium could run a circle around an atlas faster than the atlas could turn to track it, meaning assaults will have to have back up to keep from getting handled by smaller mechs

[Jakob Knight]

Jason1138, on 21 July 2012 - 06:48 AM, said:

the assault mechs are gonna be pretty slow. i think alot of you guys dont realize how slow

i would be willing to bet an average medium could run a circle around an atlas faster than the atlas could turn to track it, meaning assaults will have to have back up to keep from getting handled by smaller mechs

Well, that's what the whole idea that you can take any mech into any battle and still be effective is about. On the other hand, an Atlas that turns while backing up will end up advancing forwards when it's front is facing the way it came, while the Medium mech will be taking the full fire of the Atlas while it is doing so. The Medium mech better hope it's lancemates see the openning it is giving them on the Atlas' back so that it doesn't feel cheated when it dies.

And that is an element that we just don't know about. All the videos we've seen have been 4 on 4 fights. What will it be like with three times that number of people, all in the same small map? Suddenly, the Light mechs have no place to run, the Mediums find themselves taking damage from concentrated fire, the Heavies overheat from trying to hit everything at once, and the Assaults watch their back armor melt away as fire comes in from every direction. Nothing like fighting in a closet to make you wonder about taking up piloting a battlemech

[Nik Van Rhijn]

One of the designs I have been playing around with is a "Fastback" - a Hunchie doing 7/11 (Jenner speeds). Could be fun and a surprise on the field.

[Khobai]

Quote

the assault mechs are gonna be pretty slow. i think alot of you guys dont realize how slow

i would be willing to bet an average medium could run a circle around an atlas faster than the atlas could turn to track it, meaning assaults will have to have back up to keep from getting handled by smaller mechs

Atlases will be slow. But an 80-ton assault mech like the Awesome can move the same speed as a hunchback and still mount more weapons. Although it will most likely have to use an XL engine.

[stealthed]

Khobai, on 22 July 2012 - 04:33 AM, said:

Atlases will be slow. But an 80-ton assault mech like the Awesome can move the same speed as a hunchback and still mount more weapons. Although it will most likely have to use an XL engine.

...and cost a LOT more. I think meds will always be viable, if only due to simple concepts like "bang for your buck" or firepower/tonnage etc

[Uri Brauer]

The Hunchback's job in TT is to kill similar weight mechs (which tend to be faster, and hence less heavily armed / armoured) in close combat.

In MWO, it's hard to see why an Atlas isn't a better choice... unless the Atlas is twice the price (which doesn't appear to be the plan), or there's some other advantage to lighter mechs (which could be done through faster turn speed and/or quicker reaction to targeting).

EDIT:

Soviet Alex, on 21 July 2012 - 04:26 AM, said:

We've had a LOT of threads on this topic over the past few months. In at least one of them Paul answered that mediums turn quicker and torso-twist quicker than heavies and assaults.

Ah, and there we go.

Edited by Uri Brauer, 22 July 2012 - 08:26 AM.

[Kadreal]

Hunchback is a very efficent brawler for the weight. Assuming tonage limits comes into play, I think 2 hunchbacks could take down a single atlas.

[Fusea]

Khobai, on 19 July 2012 - 09:10 AM, said:

No its why you replace it with something else. In a 12 v 12 battle you dont want a weapon thats going to run out of ammo that quickly.

Quick is a matter of perception. Yes, you only have 10 shots total, versus the 20 shots for an AC/10. But both sets of cannon have effectively the same damage potential. The Hunchie just delivers it twice as fast, with half the spread. An AC/20 with 10 reloads is effectively 5 kills if you're careful. Besides, Endo Steel is confirmed. So you can have 20 reloads with just a simple change.

[Shadowscythe]

stealthed, on 22 July 2012 - 06:38 AM, said:

...and cost a LOT more. I think meds will always be viable, if only due to simple concepts like "bang for your buck" or firepower/tonnage etc

Yeah, costs will probably be a major factor in the early game