37 replies to this topic

[War Kitten]

Greetings All,
I am planning on running a fun build on my MX90, LPL x 2, SRM6 x 2 and MGs x 6. When I load an MG on the mech the 'firepower' label tells me that it is '4' for damage so, 4x6 mgs is 24 pts of damage, but the listing on the gun itself says it is '0.08' for damage, that is 0.48 pts. of dam, is that 8/10ths of a dam point? I know MGs are for internal damage and I think 6 should do some good damage, I am trying to understand the amount of damage a MG does, like a srm6 does 12.9 dam per hit, do we know what an MG does....per second mabey?

I understand what all other weapons do, just wnat to know my MGs are doing.

Thank you all for your help!

War Kitten

[TooDumbToQuit]

Against full armor, it does almost nothing, just bounces off.

But against exposed internals, it can cause crits hits.

I have overused them in the past and I finally had to understand that unless an enemy mech was already beaten up, they were not doing much.

P.S. I wish they would bring MG arrays to the game.

MGs and Flamers....now we are talking, lol.

Edited by LikeUntoGod, 26 November 2016 - 06:20 PM.

[War Kitten]

Not to sound ignorant (unless you ask my wife, then its my best feature...lol), but what is an MG 'array', a number of them to gether in some way?

MGs and Flamers: Kill'em and Cook'em!

War Kitten

[epikt]

Your build is a waste of fearsome ballistic platform. The MX90 is meant to carry big guns.
(not to mention you'll never get close enough to use the MGs...)

As LikeUntoGod said, MGs are only good on open components.
I will add they're only good when stacked and with rate-of-fire quirks. On mechs like the SPider-5K or the BlackJack Arrow for example.

As for how MGs work: each "bullet" deal 0.08 damage, with a chance to deal critical damage on the structure is the armor is gone (up to 2.16). Unquirked, a machinegun fires 10 bullets per second. Despite what the animation shows, it's an hitscan weapon (instant hit), but there is a slight dispersion.

[Koniving]

MGs? Pretty effective especially on a build like that.

But on an assault mech that large, I'd be cautious.

[Rogue Jedi]

machine guns do .08 Damage Per Second against armor, and generate no heat, 6 MGs would do 4.8dps against armor, and up-to 10 times that effective (although usually closer to 3-5 times) against structure, depending on how lucky you get with critical hits. however that would require you to keep facing your target the whole time

so that is just short of 5 damage removed per second against armor, a light with that sort of firepower is extremely effective, however on a slow assault you may have trouble getting into (the very short) range

[Navy Sixes]

War Kitten, on 26 November 2016 - 06:13 PM, said:

I am trying to understand the amount of damage a MG does

So are the rest of us. So are, I suspect, some of the developers. The only thing anyone can tell you is, "next to nothing." Seriously. If you're facing an opponent with armor, you will do better to lean in real close to your monitor and gently blow on your target.

Supposedly, they are "crit seekers," with a high chance to destroy exposed internals, but if you've kitted out with MGs, you probably won't be around long enough and often enough to really test this.

I hope this answers your question, or your question has been answered in the preceeding comments. It's really difficult not to let this become a "Machine Guns: WTF PGI!?!?" post...
must...
resist...

[Navy Sixes]

Rogue Jedi, on 27 November 2016 - 06:41 AM, said:

machine guns do .08 Damage Per Second against armor, and generate no heat, 6 MGs would do 4.8dps against armor, and up-to 10 times that effective (although usually closer to 3-5 times) against structure, depending on how lucky you get with critical hits. however that would require you to keep facing your target the whole time

so that is just short of 5 damage removed per second against armor, a light with that sort of firepower is extremely effective, however on a slow assault you may have trouble getting into (the very short) range

I think it's important to clarify that MG's work with a "cone of fire." That is to say that .08 damage per second from each MG is randomly spread out over the entire facing surface of the mech you're aiming at. If you do that math, you see that 5/second is even less effective against armor than it looks on paper.

They're junk.

[Rogue Jedi]

Tycho von Gagern, on 27 November 2016 - 11:45 AM, said:

I think it's important to clarify that MG's work with a "cone of fire." That is to say that .08 damage per second from each MG is randomly spread out over the entire facing surface of the mech you're aiming at. If you do that math, you see that 5/second is even less effective against armor than it looks on paper.

They're junk.

they are most certainly not junk, they are the absolute most effective weapon per ton against structure, a fast Mech with 10+ energy alpha strike and 4+ machine guns kills any assault Mech in 8 seconds or less if the assault pilot is distracted ^{(I have many times been accused of cheating, someone thought I was firing from 1km+ with a 50+ alpha when I walked up behind a heavy or assault Mech which was shooting at something and coring its rear CT in 3-8 seconds)}

however for that to work you need speed, at minimum 80KPH preferably 120+, you need be up against really stupid enemies for that to work in something as big and slow as a Mauler.

the faster your Mech is the more likely Machine Guns are to be useful

[Navy Sixes]

Rogue Jedi, on 27 November 2016 - 11:56 AM, said:

against structure... a fast Mech with 10+ energy alpha strike and 4+ machine guns... 8 seconds... if the assault pilot is distracted...
however for that to work you need speed, at minimum... 80KPH preferably 120+...

"I smell a lot of 'if' coming off this plan" --Jayne Cobb

[Aleksandr Sergeyevich Kerensky]

The problem with MGs is how the damage is applied.

First: they have an extremelly short range so you need to be up close and personal. Assault mechs do not have the luxury of dictating this form of engagement very often.

Second: they are dps weapons, you must hold your target under crosshair consistently inorder for the damage to rack up, this is hard for assault mechs due to having the lowest agility profile of all the weight classes. (When enemies are within an effective damage range, they will generally run circles on you).

Third: you are carring ammo, which can potentially explode before you even get in range to bring your guns to bear making them more of a liability then an asset.

Lastly: even on exposed internals, they are not really all that effective because all equipment have a hp value that you must breach before it can be destroyed. An assault mech like the mauler could easilly just destroy a full section with the amount of fire power it can load.... why bother with RNG crit fishing when you can just obliterate your opponents...

[Bloodwitch]

Once upon a time, in a battletech galaxy far away. Two mechs have been feared because they ripped and teared through internal like no tomorrow. The Ember and the Arrow.
Then the dark overlord of ballance made his dreadful appearance and MGs have been nerfed into the ground.
They have never recovered from that.
fin~

[TooDumbToQuit]

War Kitten, on 26 November 2016 - 06:36 PM, said:

Not to sound ignorant (unless you ask my wife, then its my best feature...lol), but what is an MG 'array', a number of them to gether in some way?

MGs and Flamers: Kill'em and Cook'em!

War Kitten

OK, first you have to understand that an "MG" is much bigger than what we think of (I'm sure someone can tell us the exact size of them). I would like a bigger version, something in between the MG we have now and the AC2. And something where you would not have to worry about ammo explosions.

My point about MG Arrays is that compared to every other Ballistic weapon, the MG is small. There is a big difference over the IS and the Clan MG. The IS one is twice as big and heavy. .5 tons compared to .25 tons.

So let's say you have a ballistic hardpoint. And you could put an AC 10 in it which takes up 7 slots and 12 tons. Or...one MG.

My idea of a Clan MG Array would be three .25 ton MGs put together in what would weight 1 ton but would still take up only one slot. Or two IS .5 Ton ones in one slot.

http://www.sarna.net...chine_Gun_Array

[WrathOfDeadguy]

MGs aren't effective at all on a chassis that large. They have to be fired continuously to deal damage, which means very high facetime at very short range... which means getting cored out quickly by enemies using far more powerful weapons. MGs on anything larger than a medium are 100% in troll build territory. That's not always a bad thing, because silly builds like that can be fun (see theb33f's DapperJager video), but they are not optimal use of a large, ballistic-heavy chassis. The SRM launchers on your build will get you more crits than the MGs will.

For the same tonnage as you'll have invested in 6xMG plus ammo, you could have an AC2, and even a single AC2 would be a better investment- higher DPS at greater range. The MX90 is actually pretty damn good with 6xAC2, but that's as small as you should ever go with ballistics on that 'Mech.

If a trollmech is what you're going for, though, you could do a lot worse as far as MG trolls go. 2xLPL + 2xSRM6 + 6xMG is weak for a 90-tonner, but still enough firepower to kill robbits with. Stuff the biggest engine you can in there and go turn some heads for all the wrong reasons.

[IraqiWalker]

Rogue Jedi, on 27 November 2016 - 11:56 AM, said:

they are most certainly not junk, they are the absolute most effective weapon per ton against structure, a fast Mech with 10+ energy alpha strike and 4+ machine guns kills any assault Mech in 8 seconds or less if the assault pilot is distracted ^{(I have many times been accused of cheating, someone thought I was firing from 1km+ with a 50+ alpha when I walked up behind a heavy or assault Mech which was shooting at something and coring its rear CT in 3-8 seconds)}

however for that to work you need speed, at minimum 80KPH preferably 120+, you need be up against really stupid enemies for that to work in something as big and slow as a Mauler.

the faster your Mech is the more likely Machine Guns are to be useful

Rogue is speaking the truth here.

I enjoy slapping the max amount of MGs on any mech I run, and I do have M dedicated builds (I think all my Urban mechs are toting MGs wherever possible). For MGs to work you need speed.

Here's why:

MGs require you to stare your opponent in the face. Which is a problem in big mechs, since you need to torso twist in order to survive. Light mechs (or mechs that can move at light-like speeds of 130Kph+) are the only ones that can do that with minimal risk.

Only way for a mech to survive long stare downs is by being really tiny, and really fast. Making you very hard to track, and shoot at. On an assault mech, I'm NEVER missing your CT. You need torso twist. Which drops your DPS, and renders the MGs into a handicap.

The nail in the coffin is the range on the weapons. Your mech is too slow to get into range fast enough. The MGs are amazing for late game killing when people have lost a majority of their armor.

I personally think you should run them, and see if you can make them work. In terms of optimal set up, I prefer MGs on much faster mechs.

[TheLuc]

Hello War Kitten , so if I understood well you looking to run some thing similar to this,
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...c6a9ca007f27c57

You are then wondering if MGs can cut it, by experience I can tell you that you will find all your targets to be very long to get rid of, which is not a good thing. The face time required to disable a Mech feel like forever and most of the time your own Mech will go down before the target. MGs feels more like gambling than an actual weapon.

[epikt]

TheLuc, on 27 November 2016 - 03:34 PM, said:

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...c6a9ca007f27c57

Good BlackJack build.

[TheLuc]

epikt, on 27 November 2016 - 05:03 PM, said:

Good BlackJack build.

Here is your BlackJack Epikt

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...8dcd2baaf3a0fcf

[TooDumbToQuit]

I should ask if I'm right in that MG ammo does not explode.

[Rogue Jedi]

I am pretty sure MG ammo can explode, I am fairly sure Gauss ammo is the only type of ammo which does not explode.
However I have literally thousands of games carrying MGs and I do not remember ever having a MG ammo explosion