6 replies to this topic

[Hellsgate9999]

So forgive me if I'm missing something,but as far as I can tell there is no reason to bring an AC20 when you can bring an UAC20

They weigh the same, UAC20 takes up one less slot, and has the ability to shoot faster.

I would think The UAC20 would take up one extra slot. Or weigh more, or something. Am I missing something?

Edited by Hellsgate9999, 27 November 2016 - 04:51 AM.

[Jay Leon Hart]

You are correct, Clan UAC 20 >> Clan AC 20
In fact, Clan UACs >> Clan ACs in almost every sense, except;
The AC2 and AC5 have slightly more range than their UAC counterparts
All UACs except the UAC5 are slightly hotter

[Hellsgate9999]

The UAC20 even cost less, haha

[DrKrieger]

While UACs are superior in most respects, regular ACs do have a couple of benefits, namely pinpoint damage and jamming.

Since (Clan) UACs split their damage between multiple bullets, they're less effective at dealing damage to individual components on a moving target - if you shoot for a side torso and your foe twists, you could end up dealing half of your damage to their side torso and half of it to an arm; while a regular AC would put its full damage into whichever component it hit.

Generally, the ability to double-tap UACs is great. Before the last patch, when all UACs jammed for five seconds, it wasn't a huge issue when one jammed. Now, though, with an eight second jam time on the UAC20, carrying a standard AC20 is almost worth considering: you can't churn out damage the way a UAC would, but you never have to worry about not being able to fire at all. In light of that, it almost, almost feels like UAC nerfs in the last patch were aimed at making them less OP compared to standard ACs; though I'd rather see PGI address the cost and weight disparity (I agree that it's odd that the fancier version with more internal machinery is cheaper and weighs less) or merge them with LBX as an alternate fire mode to make both ACs and LBX more viable.

[Jay Leon Hart]

DrKrieger, on 27 November 2016 - 08:28 AM, said:

While UACs are superior in most respects, regular ACs do have a couple of benefits, namely pinpoint damage and jamming.

Since (Clan) UACs split their damage between multiple bullets, they're less effective at dealing damage to individual components on a moving target - if you shoot for a side torso and your foe twists, you could end up dealing half of your damage to their side torso and half of it to an arm; while a regular AC would put its full damage into whichever component it hit.

While this is true for Clan ACs vs Is ACs, it is not for Clan UACs vs Clan ACs
As there is no mixed tech (yet!) I'm guessing the OP was talking about Clan tech and choosing an AC for a Clan 'mech

For Clan ACs;
LBX, AC2 and UAC2 fire a single pellet/slug/round/projectile/whatever per trigger pull
AC5 and UAC5 fire 2
AC10 and UAC10 fire 3
AC20 and UAC20 fire 4

[Edit] As for jamming, since it is impossible for UACs to jam on the first trigger pull, only on double tapping (when the red cooldown of your weapon is still counting down) you can completely avoid jamming by just holding down the trigger or single tapping. [/Edit]

Edited by Jay Leon Hart, 27 November 2016 - 08:47 AM.

[Koniving]

Hellsgate9999, on 27 November 2016 - 04:50 AM, said:

So forgive me if I'm missing something,but as far as I can tell there is no reason to bring an AC20 when you can bring an UAC20

They weigh the same, UAC20 takes up one less slot, and has the ability to shoot faster.

I would think The UAC20 would take up one extra slot. Or weigh more, or something. Am I missing something?

Technically, the Clan AC/20 does not exist.
Clan LBX 20 (or properly written LB-20X) is supposed to be able to switch from cluster ammunition (the shotgun-like thing in MWO; though in BT lore while described like a shotgun, the 'pellets' are considerably more numerous and quite explosive) and its own version of standard ammunition (which is more expensive than regular standard ammo, but supposedly LB-#X weapons are more front loaded than the typical ACs, after all BT [lore] AC/20s churn between 4 and 100 shots to deal 20 damage, while LB-X requires considerably less to deliver identical damage...which is also why they are colder).

The AC/20 in MWO for the Clans is a placeholder for that ability...

The Clan AC/20 / LB-20X in MWO and BT is colder than the UAC/20, per use.
And unlike the UAC/20, you cannot accidentally 'double tap' and therefore you cannot jam.

Honestly there's no reason to bring the UAC/20, either.
Watch this video using a UAC/20 and LB-20x in one-on-one combat.

The 5 shot (now 4 shot) is the UAC/20. The 1 shot is the LB-20X.

Furtherlore (Furthermore), the difference in materials is also a factor for the difference in cost, LB-X required endo steel and larger barrels while the UACs did not. Quite frankly, in terms of Battletech, Clan UACs could and do go up to 203mm (2 shots = 20 damage, 4 shots max in about 10 seconds), extremely few mechs could even use that caliber (Ebon Jaguar being one of them, and its squat low to the ground design with extra wide legs and NO Torso Twist are among the reasons it could) and most mechs would fall on their rear due to the recoil. Thus the typical UAC/20 was around 150mm (

Spoiler

as opposed to the IS's AC/5/10/20s typically being 120mm with the largest IS AC/20 being 185mm, 5mm smaller than the 190mm Heavy Rifle, which is an 8 ton ballistic weapon based on 22nd century tank cannons and would do 9 damage if not for mechs having a Barrier Armor Rating of 10, and thus only delivers 6 damage per shell..

Meanwhile the Chemjet Gun, that 185mm AC/20 I mentioned, fires 4 shells at 5 damage each per 'round' or reload. Interesting fact, there are 150mm AC/20s well defined as firing specifically 10 shells for 20 damage, as in 2 damage per shell... also fun fact: AC/2s cut off at 90mm... While that damage isn't defined, I have for comparison, an 80mm AC/5 (Armstrong, ShadowHawk) requires 8 shots to deliver 5 damage. A 100mm (numerous examples, including Death Giver AC/20, Atlas D) requires between 16 and 20 shells to deliver 20 damage depending on the author... meaning between 1 and 1.25 damage per shell at 100mm

), and any LBX typically carried longer shells for the same caliber. In terms of damage the LB-20X fires half as fast,but it actually fires slower than that because while one caliber might require 10 shots to get 20 damage for the UAC, it may require only 4 or 5 shells from the LBX, each one packing a bigger punch. The bigger shells requires more metal with more emphasis on the barrels while UACs focus more on the ammo feed and ejection systems.

Keep in mind also, UACs are supposed to perma-jam, as in if they jammed they were worthless for the rest of the fight.

This game could have gone to pretty good lengths to balance them out so that the Clan AC aka the LBX would have a genuine purpose to them.

Edited by Koniving, 27 November 2016 - 09:45 AM.

[TooDumbToQuit]

DrKrieger, on 27 November 2016 - 08:28 AM, said:

While UACs are superior in most respects, regular ACs do have a couple of benefits, namely pinpoint damage and NOT jamming.

Since (Clan) UACs split their damage between multiple bullets, they're less effective at dealing damage to individual components on a moving target - if you shoot for a side torso and your foe twists, you could end up dealing half of your damage to their side torso and half of it to an arm; while a regular AC would put its full damage into whichever component it hit.

I do not like Clan UACs for the reasons mentioned here. I use the LBX instead but if I wanted more range, I would maybe use the AC over the UAC.Their jamming has just been increased, and as stated, they shoot multiple bullets.

I've not tested this but it seems like if you are poking, it takes a little longer for the UAC to fire then the AC. One of the reasons I'm living longer in matches is one piece of advice from one of the players I follow on YouTube. When poking, do not wait to see if your shot hit, duck back as soon as you fire. So I'm practicing and doing that.

(I can tell I'm becoming a better player. because I'm now watching and shaking my head over others stand on a hill or try to hold their ground while getting hit by 3-4 enemy mechs)

Plus there is the fact that an AC20 for instance, will put 20 points of damage on one spot, while a UAC might spread it.

And the AC20 is the same weight and size as the LBX 20. I started as a Clanner so all I knew was that the AC 20 was "bad". After about 300 FW missions I started playing QP matches and I also got some IS Mechs. And I found that the AC 20 has some pluses over the UAC. If you are running four UAC's, one jamming is not a big deal. But if is your main weapon, it has a habit of jamming at very bad times, lol.

And for poking around a corner, the AC wins. That one shell will hit and most of the UACs will miss.