54 replies to this topic

[Nick86]

Was on my Clan account just now on FP, Grim Portico..

It has been dawning on me for a while now that IS mechs have a meta (Black Knight, Rifleman, Grasshopper, Warhammer) and that this meta is F*CKING POWERFUL.. So much so, that I see a lot of mechs get cleaved in half or killed with just one or two fairly quick shots by any of these mechs. These mechs often run a mix of Medium lasers and Large Pulse lasers/ER Large. I was prompted to make this samey kind of post because I've just been chased around Grim Portico by several mechs with the same build. There are other powerful LaserVom mechs too, like the Wolfhound (if used in the right hands).


I genuinely now believe that IS mechs overall have a definite advantage over clan mechs. However, I'm not calling for PGI to nerf IS Mechs as such.. I disagree with the 'OP pls nerf' threads generally. But this, surely has gone too far.
Balance has always been a massive issue in MWO. We've seen a revolving door of 'Metas' over the past few years.. Is now not the time to actually do something radical, given that we know Energy Draw, Ghost Heat etc is ****?

I think I'd like to see PGI try a heatcap. I believe Hairbrained is doing this for their upcoming game which I will be moving to when it comes out. Whether I come back, ever and open my wallet or not really hinges on this and may well do for many players I believe.
I'm posting this through my IS account because I want to demonstrate that I am unbiased and want to raise, yet again, a much raised point as seriously as I can. PGI will likely not heed this, but I was wondering what players on either side make of the whole state of balance at the moment and I also want to know, what are the real obstacles to a traditional heatcap (I think of 30)?

I'd be happy if you had a heatcap per shot (so you could use combinations of weapons in groups) and for that cap to stagger upwards by 5 say, for each tier of mech so that Lights would have 30, Assaults would end up with 45.. Or some broad system like that. Please don't get bogged down with any numbers I put, I'm just searching for the right 'idea'.

Otherwise, I'm f*kin' outta here!
Cheers folks. xx

[Positive Mental Attitude]

the only thing not balanced are streaks...

and clans dont have a grasshopper

[Paigan]

Meta - used in English to indicate a concept which is an abstraction from another concept

Edited by Paigan, 27 November 2016 - 10:36 AM.

[RestosIII]

"I've never complained about laser vomit but..."

Well I guess there's a first time for everything, huh? And laser vomit is the old meta. Now it's all dakka and PPCs.

[Bombast]

What if I told you that Clan mechs are also capable of laser vomit, potentially as well as most IS mechs.

And that they can vomit Autocannons, far better then IS mechs.

And SSRMs. Better then IS mechs.

Also, as far as I know, HBS is using a proper heat table in their game. So... yah. That fixes loads on it's own, though it would be a lie to say you could just transfer HBS's model over to MWO.

Also I just noticed the Colonel banner has an adult marital aid on it, for some reason.

[Gas Guzzler]

Dude what? Laser vomit is not meta anymore. You are almost 12 months behind.

[Nighthawk513]

Quoting myself from another post in the FP area:

Nighthawk513, on 27 November 2016 - 10:34 AM, said:

In our Unit V Unit matches, the biggest thing we noticed as clans is that most of the IS units we faces have been running almost exclusively Warhammer 6Ds, Thunderbolt 5SSs, and Grasshopper 5Ps. We had 3 matches against DIFFERENT UNITS in DIFFERENT FACTIONS of IS, and ALL of them were running almost all those 3 mechs.

All 3 are laser vomit mechs capable of moving as fast as clan mechs with XLs (And they all have quirks to ST structure). The thunderbolt has significant quirks for both cooldown and heat gen on the lasers, while the other 2 have massive structure quirks.

Thats all well and good in QP matches where you can outmaneuver your enemies using the maps, or use the extra range from clan lasers to attack with little retaliation. However, most of the FP maps require you to push a fire line, generally at 400 meters or less. In those scenarios, the above IS mechs have a fairly significant advantage over their clan equivalents.

The point is, it isn't tech base imbalance so much as map design favoring one side over the other. FP forces the engagement ranges into IS favor, and gives very few options for flanking, Nullifying the two big advantages of clans over IS. On the flip side, QP maps give many options for flanking, and have more locations where you can use clan range to your advantage. And since the great dartboard of balance is based off of QP where clans are stronger, it rigs FP into IS favor.

[Warglbargl]

The Wolfhound being described as a powerful mech, hehehe.

[Gas Guzzler]

Lasers are popular in faction play because of the potential for long drawn out matches and not having a dependence on ammo, and they are especially great at farming indecisive pugs. But PPFLD and dakka have surpassed laser vomit for some time now, and then the Black Knight, Grasshopper, and Warhammer-6D got nerfed after laser vomit was already on its way out. So saying that IS laser vomit is now some "powerful meta" shows that at best you are trolling and at worst you are clueless.

[MadHornet]

While I agree that the spammability of lasers is a little out of hand, laser boats are easily countered by overwhelming fire and have trouble engaging two targets at a time. Not really meta anymore.

[Weeny Machine]

Nick86, on 27 November 2016 - 10:31 AM, said:

I'd be happy if you had a heatcap per shot (so you could use combinations of weapons in groups) and for that cap to stagger upwards by 5 say, for each tier of mech so that Lights would have 30, Assaults would end up with 45.. Or some broad system like that. Please don't get bogged down with any numbers I put, I'm just searching for the right 'idea'.

Cool. As if lights need even more limits hahaha

[Wintersdark]

I love when people complain about the old meta, when it's already basically gone. It's one of my favourite things about metas shifting. Dunno why, but it always brings a smile.

[HauptmanT]

Somebody shot me with lasers! I must complain! To the forums!



This applies here.

[Wintersdark]

HauptmanT, on 27 November 2016 - 10:55 AM, said:

Somebody shot me with lasers! I must complain! To the forums!



This applies here.

I've got to admit, this got a genuine belly laugh =)

[Y E O N N E]

Clans have laser vomit, too. Clans also get more range out of it. If Clans are choosing to fight at the range where IS vomit is strong, that's not a balance problem; it's a player problem.

Paigan, on 27 November 2016 - 10:36 AM, said:

Meta - used in English to indicate a concept which is an abstraction from another concept

Context is a wonderful thing.

[Bombast]

Oh yah, I forgot.

Clan Lasers Under Powered, please Buff.

Edited by Bombast, 27 November 2016 - 11:17 AM.

[C E Dwyer]

I also run a lot of clan mechs all of them in fact apart from the Viper

I can say that the Night Gyr, Kodiak, hunchback II are freaking powerful, and need some sort of control

[RestosIII]

Bombast, on 27 November 2016 - 11:16 AM, said:

Oh yah, I forgot.

Clan Lasers Under Powered, please Buff.

Needs more wub.

[L1f3H4ck]

RestosIII, on 27 November 2016 - 10:36 AM, said:

"I've never complained about laser vomit but..."

Well I guess there's a first time for everything, huh? And laser vomit is the old meta. Now it's all dakka and PPCs.

Yeah! Why doesn't PGI get a clue and finally nerf the Victor. Damn Dragon Slayers, and dont even get me started on those 'Phracts.

[Nick86]

Some of you guys just don't read before you reply.

However, I do appreciate Nighthawk's answer about the maps as I was talking about FP. Thankyou.
I will now upgrade my dropdecks and move up to heavy-wub-capable, high-mount laser clan mechs for my Faction Playing to continue..

Ah f*ck it, I'll just read a book.

Edited by Nick86, 27 November 2016 - 11:34 AM.