18 replies to this topic

[TooDumbToQuit]

Just making sure. Artemis only works if it is LOS or direct fire? (a yes or no answer will do)

And I'm looking at a couple of mechs that I've been told I have to "open doors" for like the Archer etc. I see the button on my keyboard but does this save me time? Or damage? What is the deal?

[Bohxim]

1) yes. Only with LOS
2) Used to mitigate a little damage when close. Believe they have removed that. Now it's just a half second delay vs a bigger shillouette

[Palfatreos]

1. Yes

2. open door = missil fires directly
closed door = delay time of missil fired but reduce incoming damage on those parts (neglitable damage reduction
you always want the doors open.

[TooDumbToQuit]

Thanks and I forgot "Actuators". I'm embarrassed to admit when I first knew they existed.

I knew about some Mechs have hands etc but what use would they in this game being "on" instead of "off' and giving more room?

[Tesunie]

LikeUntoGod, on 27 November 2016 - 07:03 PM, said:

Thanks and I forgot "Actuators". I'm embarrassed to admit when I first knew they existed.

I knew about some Mechs have hands etc but what use would they in this game being "on" instead of "off' and giving more room?

Hands can be useful for increasing the size of any shield arms, depending upon the hand hitbox. Of course, only clan Omni-mechs can choose to have hands on or not. All other mechs it's either on, or it's off. There is no choice.

I do believe that they can also act as a crit buffer for other equipment in that component.

Overall, if you don't need them (or like how your mech looks without them), than leave them off. Overall, it typically doesn't make that much of a difference.

[Threndor]

For actuators, you need to have the lower arm actuators to 'unlock' you arms (increase lateral targeting). But being allowed to add them also is restricted to the barrel size of the weapon mounted. Example: Kit Fox can have the actuators and a LPL loaded, but not a ER PPC (the game will auto-remove the actuator, even if you had it checked before loading the ER PPC). Not sure if that restriction is mech-size related though.

[Tesunie]

Threndor, on 27 November 2016 - 08:56 PM, said:

For actuators, you need to have the lower arm actuators to 'unlock' you arms (increase lateral targeting). But being allowed to add them also is restricted to the barrel size of the weapon mounted. Example: Kit Fox can have the actuators and a LPL loaded, but not a ER PPC (the game will auto-remove the actuator, even if you had it checked before loading the ER PPC). Not sure if that restriction is mech-size related though.

That is a restriction based on what weapon is in there. Any laser, MG or missile may have lower arm actuators. However, an ERPPC or any AC will remove the actuators (and thus also hands) from that arm. They are viewed as "too large" and take up the space where the hands would be. (It's actually a Table Top Battletech rule there for Omnimechs.)

As an added bonus info here, if one arm has a lower actuator and the other one doesn't, both arms can still swing side to side, however it will be at a reduced max rate compared to if both arms have lower Actuators.

EDIT: This is for Clan Omni-mechs in the game, as battlemechs (any mech not an Omni) can not remove actuators. This does mean that a battlemech (all IS currently and some Clan mechs) can have ACs in each arm with Lower Actuators as well as hands even... Or not if it never had them to begin with. Thus, balance is achieved by different manners of customization.

Edited by Tesunie, 27 November 2016 - 09:21 PM.

[Tier5 Kerensky]

Tesunie, on 27 November 2016 - 09:19 PM, said:

That is a restriction based on what weapon is in there. Any laser, MG or missile may have lower arm actuators. However, an ERPPC or any AC will remove the actuators (and thus also hands) from that arm. They are viewed as "too large" and take up the space where the hands would be. (It's actually a Table Top Battletech rule there for Omnimechs.)

As an added bonus info here, if one arm has a lower actuator and the other one doesn't, both arms can still swing side to side, however it will be at a reduced max rate compared to if both arms have lower Actuators.

Are you sure about the speed part? Because with Mad Dog for example, having lower arm actuators and hand actuators available for both arms, I noticed, the displayed speed on mechlab does not change.

The amount of lateral/horizontal movement is always symmetric, even when you have those actuators only on other arm.

Mad Dog with no extra actuators, 0 degree yaw but "speed" of 236. You can understand that since the client just doesnt' interpret it right. If you can't move you can't have any speed either.

Add lower arm actuator on one arm, you get +10 yaw movement. Add hand too, and no change? Not into speed or any other amount of any values displayed in mechlab. My Mad Dog is elited but it should not matter? Add lower arm actuator of another arm, you get +20 degrees more movement of hands. But again adding second hand actuator also changes nothing.

So it seems the hand actuator is some kind of dead feature? And nothing changes the speed, except quirks and skills.

The difference how much having one or two lower arm actuators seem to differ with maybe mechs. Mist Lynx gets +10 +10, not +10 +20 like Mad Dog. Kit Fox gets +10 +30. And just like Mad Dog, these don't display any change from adding hand actuators.

[Ballimbo]

Teer Kerensky, on 28 November 2016 - 05:07 AM, said:

Are you sure about the speed part? Because with Mad Dog for example, having lower arm actuators and hand actuators available for both arms, I noticed, the displayed speed on mechlab does not change.

The amount of lateral/horizontal movement is always symmetric, even when you have those actuators only on other arm.

Mad Dog with no extra actuators, 0 degree yaw but "speed" of 236. You can understand that since the client just doesnt' interpret it right. If you can't move you can't have any speed either.

Add lower arm actuator on one arm, you get +10 yaw movement. Add hand too, and no change? Not into speed or any other amount of any values displayed in mechlab. My Mad Dog is elited but it should not matter? Add lower arm actuator of another arm, you get +20 degrees more movement of hands. But again adding second hand actuator also changes nothing.

So it seems the hand actuator is some kind of dead feature? And nothing changes the speed, except quirks and skills.

The difference how much having one or two lower arm actuators seem to differ with maybe mechs. Mist Lynx gets +10 +10, not +10 +20 like Mad Dog. Kit Fox gets +10 +30. And just like Mad Dog, these don't display any change from adding hand actuators.

Lower Arm actuators don't affect (yaw) Speed at all - they only affect arm yaw degrees (or rate, as Tesunie said).
With only one lower arm actuator equipped (only in one arm that is), the arm yaw is always 10°. With both lower arm actuators equipped, the arm yaw is at max degrees for that specific chassis. (Actually, specific variant, but clan Mech variant seem to have the same values across one chassis)

Hand actuators don't affect arm yaw speed nor arm yaw degrees. (I guess that's because the weapons are attached to the forearms of the mechs and not held in the Mechs hands). The only effect of hand actuators is the crit slot they're taking up - that's it.

For the official specifications of the clan actuators rules (see under Arm actuators rules)
Clan Mechs specifications

And for the max arm yaw degrees of each variant / chassis, take a look at smurfy's Mechlab (under the Torso/Arm column)
Smurfy

Edited by Ballimbo, 28 November 2016 - 08:02 AM.

[Koniving]

Artemis only gives its benefits during line of sight. When you can see the enemy, you get 12 course corrections instead of 8, as well as a larger arc of correction (as of 2015, before which you could make missiles do a 180 degree U-turn and hit enemies behind corners through some in-game unaided abuse of the lock on mechanics. If the old trick is still possible, I haven't been able to do it and non-Artemis missiles seem to have limited turning abilities now.) The lock on speed benefits are also pretty sweet.

Mechs with "doors" get a 10% damage resistance when the doors are closed on the body parts that have the doors. In the case of the Archer, that means the left and right torsos will remove 10% of any damage received while the doors are closed. The Catapults do this for the arms while the doors are closed as do the Stalkers with missiles in the arms (Misery, as the Stalker Hero without missiles in the arms, does not have this protection and loses its arms significantly easier).

The Centurion before the door was removed also had this trait though it is gone now. The Vindicator if NOT for PGI opting to leave the door out, could have had this trait as well, allowing for the left side to be used for 'tanking' shots.

With the door closed you have a 0.5 second delay to firing on the first launcher that has to open the door. You open it to remove the delay, at the reduction of your protection to 0% resistance to damage.

Note:
The Crab (certain variants) has a claw, and the King Crab has claws that also count as 'doors'. When closed these provide protection to the arms of 10%. However unlike the missile doors, this has zero delay in opening and will automatically open just long enough to fire. Toggling these is literally something you can do for fun, such as 'pinching' the air or for cinematic flare.

There was a sister video to this one which I was forced to delete due to copyrights in music playing on my winamp, in which I would announce when I opened and closed my doors. When about to engage I'd say I was opening my doors, letting my friends know I was engaging. When I shut my doors, I was getting out of the fight to cool off or to get the fire off of me which was also a request that they make themselves the center of attention until I could come back into the fight.
I do make the call outs in this video, but we aren't as organized as we are in the video I wish I could have shared.

There's a moment where I said "Okay, I lost an arm. Shutti--[beep as other arm is almost instantly blown off], I couldn't shut it fast enough".

[Koniving]

To note: The value of 10% damage mitigation:

10 damage = 9 damage.
20 damage = 18 damage.
30 damage = 27 damage.
40 damage = 36 damage
50 damage = 45 damage
60 damage = 54 damage
70 damage = 63 damage
80 damage = 72 damage

86 damage = 77.4 damage (highest 'practical' alpha strike that can be done. Isn't the highest but the highest practical metamechs alpha strike possible).

[TooDumbToQuit]

Thanks everyone.

I need to buy two more Archers now. So I need a couple of Mech Bays. Does anyone see a reason to keep my IS Jenners? PGI could give them God Like quirks and they would still suck.

Anyway....here is my Archer. I needed to know about the doors because I'm not a normal Archer. And one thing that sucks is that I cannot find anywhere that tells me my doors are open or close.

[Tier5 Kerensky]

Does XL engine work with SRMs on Archer? I think not, when I tried 9xstreak 2, the close range required meant I quickly lose a side torso and thus die. I had fast XL engine but it doesn't work, it's just too weak, can take about as much damage as a weak medium but it's a lot bigger and still slower. Maybe torso twisting made it worse


But if you can make it work, no argument there.

Edited by Teer Kerensky, 03 December 2016 - 03:18 PM.

[TooDumbToQuit]

Teer Kerensky, on 03 December 2016 - 03:17 PM, said:

Does XL engine work with SRMs on Archer? I think not, when I tried 9xstreak 2, the close range required meant I quickly lose a side torso and thus die. I had fast XL engine but it doesn't work, it's just too weak, can take about as much damage as a weak medium but it's a lot bigger and still slower. Maybe torso twisting made it worse


But if you can make it work, no argument there.

I can't really torso twist so..lol. I felt this build needed speed to work.

[Koniving]

Teer Kerensky, on 03 December 2016 - 03:17 PM, said:

Does XL engine work with SRMs on Archer? I think not, when I tried 9xstreak 2, the close range required meant I quickly lose a side torso and thus die. I had fast XL engine but it doesn't work, it's just too weak, can take about as much damage as a weak medium but it's a lot bigger and still slower. Maybe torso twisting made it worse


But if you can make it work, no argument there.

Regular SRMs, yes. Streaks, it's a bit underwhelming.

I still recommend going with a slower engine (makes it less obvious) and mix it up with LRMs and SRMs.

[TooDumbToQuit]

Koniving, on 04 December 2016 - 10:00 AM, said:

Regular SRMs, yes. Streaks, it's a bit underwhelming. I still recommend going with a slower engine (makes it less obvious) and mix it up with LRMs and SRMs.

I've been trying to "unLRM". Normally, I would have bought this Mech to use with almost all LRMs but I'm going for the harder to get damage and the bigger "Alphas". Less DOT and more killing directly.

Mainly to become a better player although I've seen Youtube videos of 12 man sets up just destroying other units using a planned mix of LRM (Artillery) Mechs, Narcing Scouts and Mechs protecting the LRM boats but who also had LRMs. Everyone was using LRM 15s and it was scary. The other team complained at the 12-0 beating.

And for the fun of it, I'd like to get together such a group, with at least 8-10 out of the 12 having ECM and really, all 12 having it. But that is not going to happen.

And I've been paying attention and seeing that at higher Tiers, players simply do not leave themselves open as targets for long. Now I'm the in the Mech looking up at the Mech standing on the top of a large rock who takes fire from 3 of the enemy in his chest.

And learning to aim and shoot SRMS is important. I'm still not good at it or PPCs but I no longer suck at it. I used to be addicted to Streaks.

I'll check out the changes in engines. With the above version, I go with the guys pushing and make attacks quickly and back away and repeat.

The next two Varients I'm having more problems with so I might LRM a little.....

Edited by LikeUntoGod, 04 December 2016 - 03:16 PM.

[TooDumbToQuit]

OK, not bad with a standard 300 in this one.

OK, question. Should an LRM mech have a Command Console (I like it because of my eyesight) and a BAP or one over another or forget both of them.

[Tesunie]

LikeUntoGod, on 04 December 2016 - 03:34 PM, said:

OK, not bad with a standard 300 in this one.

OK, question. Should an LRM mech have a Command Console (I like it because of my eyesight) and a BAP or one over another or forget both of them.

CC does nothing for LRMs (besides longer sensor ranges, which is only marginal benefit for LRMs if any). So I'd ditch CC on an LRM based mech and use that 3 tons for something more useful, like backup weapons or ammo.

BAP is marginal in it's use, but far more useful than CC is. BAP increases sensor ranges (some benefit, but seen as LRMs are best when used witihin 600m or less...), but the big thing BAP provides LRMs is the ability to counter a single ECM that is nearby. However, if you are boating LRMs (and only LRMs), than this will be of only a little use to keep your LRMs on your own target, not to protect yourself from an ECM mech nearby (because they will be too close for your LRMs to damage them).

Basically, BAP is not a "must" have for LRMs, but it can be useful making it worth taking if you can. CC does basically nothing for LRMs, so I wouldn't even bother with it at all.

[Koniving]

BAP first.
CC to supplement; but this benefit is limited without the advanced sensor range module.
Shame MWO doesn't play more like BT... If it did, the CC could have many additional uses; like still having a conscious person to pilot when the pilot is knocked out.