44 replies to this topic

[Inatu Elimor]

I' m about to enter tier 2 (bar past "minimize" ).Hooray ! Now same is happening when I transitioned from 4 to 3: things get suddenly alot tuffer. I notice I'm in groups that don' t knit tightly and don' t focus fire while the enemy does. The result: frustrating roll overs. Now has the matchmaker something to do with this?? It almost seems no coincidence. But Ala, it could be poor me (but there is a difference - no doubt).
I came to understand that tier 1 and 2 folks don' t get mixed up with tier 4 and 5. It suggests that my group is composed of inexperienced players vs. aces.
Give me your opinion plz.

Edited by Inatu Elimor, 10 June 2017 - 07:53 AM.

[Burke IV]

You can be tier one and dropped with people who will ask what their controls are in chat. Match maker is badly broken

[QuePan]

Match maker doesnt properly sort the teams . you can be the only tier 2 on team T5s going up against a team made up of tier 1 and 2s is what i've experienced with this system . , it just takes the players and tosses them on teams without looking at the fact that its a mismatch , you really should have a match maker at least sprinkle the Veteran players around the teams which it doesn't do by these experiences quite literally it just takes the players in queue and shoves them in spots to fill the sides . the issue is that if they do it how it should be done the veteran players will go back to whine about queue times which is why they made MM the way it is now .

[Inatu Elimor]

So given the choice would you prefer long waiting time or mismatch ?
Again : I only exprience this at transitiong phase.

Edited by Inatu Elimor, 10 June 2017 - 08:32 AM.

[Burke IV]

For the good of the game, its time to consider merging the ques. Allowing different groups to segregate themselfs has led to qp becoming the way it is. I also suspect its behind the whine about FW is all 12 man stomping pugs.

Edited by Burke IV, 10 June 2017 - 08:36 AM.

[Too Much Love]

Most likely it has nothing to do with tiers or tiers trasition.

If you play this game long enough, you will eventually find out that the days of "defeats only" relpace "victiries days" and visa versa.

There is a well known "wins\defeats rows" phenomena in MWO.

[El Bandito]

It does get tougher, the higher you go. Technically you will still have noobs piloting bad builds in your queue even in T1, but the amount of players that actually can shoot straight increases.

[Wintersdark]

drunkblackstar, on 10 June 2017 - 08:37 AM, said:

Most likely it has nothing to do with tiers or tiers trasition.

If you play this game long enough, you will eventually find out that the days of "defeats only" relpace "victiries days" and visa versa.

There is a well known "wins\defeats rows" phenomena in MWO.

Yeah, it happens. You'll get a bunch of wins, then a bunch of losses. Just happens.

The matchmaker isn't broken, it works fine. But there's a lot of factors that skew it:

1) Low player population. Time of day matters a lot here. It doesn't matter how perfect the MM is, if there simply are not enough players online searching for a match right when you are. I've done the math elsewhere, but it works out to needing some 20,000 players online at a time to have decent chances of building a good match, and that's making very generous assumptions.

2) PSR = XP bar. While experience does correlate with ability, only to a degree.

3) Even if someone is a strong player, maybe they're just derping around and you've got put on a team with a couple very good players who are just grinding new mechs, or are drunk, or just aren't playing hard today.


In practice, virtually all matches feature a fairly large PSR spread, simply because the MM needs to do that to build matches at all. A "longer wait" isn't really an answer as you'd STILL see a substantial amount of variance in matches anyways due to factors 2 and 3 above even if it ONLY built single-tier matches. While maybe one player is ok with 5 minute waits and still pretty random matches a whole lot of people would rather just play.

You see this in practice in all ranked games. Every single one I've ever played, or watched played, features people complaining about "GG Matchmaker" and such. It's an extremely difficult task when you have a huge playerbase, but in a game like MWO it honestly doesn't even matter how good the MM is, there's just not enough people playing at most times to build good matches.

Edited by Wintersdark, 10 June 2017 - 08:52 AM.

[Coolant]

Burke IV, on 10 June 2017 - 07:55 AM, said:

You can be tier one and dropped with people who will ask what their controls are in chat. Match maker is badly broken

No...if the Matchmaker cannot match a equivalent for all tiers represented in the match it will open up to include more than 2 tier levels.

[Angel of Annihilation]

I am not sure I noticed things getting a whole lot tougher as I went up the tiers. I am probably going to break into Tier 1 this weekend though so I should get some first hand experience here in a bit.

The thing about the PSR rating is that it is so heavily tied to wins that I just don't feel it is remotely accurate. I mean as long as my team wins the match I go up in PSR and it doesn't matter that goofed up, got head shot with the first volley fired and died with less than 50 damage being done. On the other hand it still goes up even in a loss as long as I have a better than average game. That makes me feel like it is gimmicked to always increase for most players and the only thing really governing your PSR is the amount of time it takes you to reach Tier 1, not the fact that you are actually part of Tier 1.

[Inatu Elimor]

Viktor Drake, on 10 June 2017 - 10:00 AM, said:

I am not sure I noticed things getting a whole lot tougher as I went up the tiers. I am probably going to break into Tier 1 this weekend though so I should get some first hand experience here in a bit.

The thing about the PSR rating is that it is so heavily tied to wins that I just don't feel it is remotely accurate. I mean as long as my team wins the match I go up in PSR and it doesn't matter that goofed up, got head shot with the first volley fired and died with less than 50 damage being done. On the other hand it still goes up even in a loss as long as I have a better than average game. That makes me feel like it is gimmicked to always increase for most players and the only thing really governing your PSR is the amount of time it takes you to reach Tier 1, not the fact that you are actually part of Tier 1.

I have the idea I go tier up with matchscore 150 + and go down with matchscore 150 -; nomatter the outcome of the match.

[Magnus Santini]

On'tday ostpay gardingreay isthay. No one likes to think about it. I have noticed that people three tiers apart are being put together. I think it is a Star League conspiracy.

[Wintersdark]

Inatu Elimor, on 10 June 2017 - 10:52 AM, said:

I have the idea I go tier up with matchscore 150 + and go down with matchscore 150 -; nomatter the outcome of the match.

Ignoring the specific numbers, I have to agree with this overall. Not so much because "only personal performance matters, not if you win" because winning is influenced heavily by personal performance in aggregate, but because whether you win or lose has a substantial impact on match score anyways. It doesn't need to be so biased afterwards.

[G4LV4TR0N]

Matchmaker is optimized to get games faster, people who really want to play with Tier 1 groups should stick to Group Queue.

[Inatu Elimor]

G4LV4TR0N, on 10 June 2017 - 11:07 AM, said:

Matchmaker is optimized to get games faster, people who really want to play with Tier 1 groups should stick to Group Queue.

And then you get kicked for no apparent reason.

[Mister Glitchdragon]

Viktor Drake, on 10 June 2017 - 10:00 AM, said:

The thing about the PSR rating is that it is so heavily tied to wins that I just don't feel it is remotely accurate. I mean as long as my team wins the match I go up in PSR and it doesn't matter that goofed up, got head shot with the first volley fired and died with less than 50 damage being done. On the other hand it still goes up even in a loss as long as I have a better than average game. That makes me feel like it is gimmicked to always increase for most players and the only thing really governing your PSR is the amount of time it takes you to reach Tier 1, not the fact that you are actually part of Tier 1.

I can't help but think there might be a little confirmation bias at work, here. If you kept records of your individual matches, I'm pretty sure you'd find that (by the time you were on the cusp of T1) instances when you performed above average and your team lost, as well as instances when you performed poorly (but not too poorly; under about 100 dmg and your PSR will "=") and your team still won are exceptions not the rule. We only remember those exceptional matches, though: when we got insta-gibbed out of the gate, or carried like a god but still couldn't bring in the win.

Chances are that chances are. After the number of games it takes to reach T1, statistical averages start to shake out. With the exception of those outliers mentioned above, when you perform well, your W/L will reflect this. But maybe the PSR system is more broken than I know. Are there many T1 players out there with underwater (under 1.00) W/L ratios?

No one is saying PSR is a perfect reflection of ability (unless of course someone in T1 is arguing with someone in T5, then it suddenly becomes a crucial point!) But I'd like to think PSR does indicate some understanding of the game. I just crossed into T2 last night, and I can safely say I'm a way better player than I was at T5.

Edited by Mister Glitchdragon, 10 June 2017 - 11:39 AM.

[LT. HARDCASE]

Inatu Elimor, on 10 June 2017 - 10:52 AM, said:

I have the idea I go tier up with matchscore 150 + and go down with matchscore 150 -; nomatter the outcome of the match.

Well no, that's absolutely not true.

In a loss you have to be above 400 to go up.

[Jman5]

Teams get a lot derpier on weekends.

[Inatu Elimor]

LT. HARDCASE, on 10 June 2017 - 11:47 AM, said:

Well no, that's absolutely not true.

In a loss you have to be above 400 to go up.

Assists and kills count too, even under 400 and loosing match to go up.

Edited by Inatu Elimor, 10 June 2017 - 12:24 PM.

[Y E O N N E]

Jman5, on 10 June 2017 - 12:23 PM, said:

Teams get a lot derpier on weekends.

Sh*tfaced Saturdays...