153 replies to this topic

[Bombast]

RestosIII, on 04 December 2016 - 02:04 AM, said:

Meanwhile, TOG II. That's all I really have to say about WoT that isn't salt. I love that stupid bus.

The TOG II is WoT's Urbanmech. Only they aren't embarrassed by it.

And everyone loves it. Everyone loves seeing a TOG on their team because they can be monsters. Everyone loves seeing them on the enemy team because they're XP/Money pinatas. Everyone loves seeing them in their platoons, because that means they can pull out their TOG, and form a much dreaded TOG platoon.

God, I miss my TOG.

TOG II is Love. TOG II is Life.

Edited by Bombast, 04 December 2016 - 02:09 AM.

[FallingAce]

Khobai, on 04 December 2016 - 01:54 AM, said:

faction play was dead long before they even added the long tom.

Phase 2 had a pulse.
Phase 3 and the introduction of the GOD TOM killed it.

[-Natural Selection-]

Jun Watarase, on 04 December 2016 - 02:08 AM, said:

Folks expect a game dev to deliver on their initial promises. People are still waiting for that. Oh and replace the placeholder systems that have been in place since beta.

Not go off to work on another game when the current game is badly unfinished. How would you feel if you paid for a meal at a restaurant that was half cooked because the chef wanted to work on other stuff instead?

Have they stopped working on this game? It dont seem so.. And if you dont feel it is up to your liking, then walk away.

People act like they own stock in this company just because they spent some money on a game. And to be honest its "free to play" so you actually only spent money because you wanted to, not because you had to in order to play it.

[Jun Watarase]

Pjwned, on 04 December 2016 - 02:08 AM, said:

It's not like they're taking money that was explicitly meant to go towards MWO development (such as money from Founder packs) and putting it towards something else instead, so if they want to spend money on MW5 then they can.

I can say though that I don't like them working on another project while MWO is still a mess with barely any updates worth a **** for the entire year, but that's not really criticizing how they spend their money (at least, not directly) which is a different issue.

It's not like my money went into it either since I'm not a chump who buys overpriced **** all the time, so even if there was some sort of direct problem with how they're spending money at least it wasn't any of my money.

When you are a small game developer and you have a game that has been out of beta for more than 4 years but is still using placeholder systems and can't even deliver on it's initial promises, then diverting funds and resources to another game is highly inappropriate.

If you were a free lance developer and you decided to take your client's money and spend time developing another project (instead of finishing your client's project, the one he paid you for), i'm pretty sure they would be very unhappy with you.

Nobody would be complaining if MWO was a great game, very well developed and delivered on most of it's initial promises. The problem people have is that PGI left MWO unfinished to work on MW5 instead, which is the reason why 2016 has had almost no updates other than mechpacks.

Mickey Knoxx, on 04 December 2016 - 02:15 AM, said:

Have they stopped working on this game? It dont seem so.. And if you dont feel it is up to your liking, then walk away.

People act like they own stock in this company just because they spent some money on a game. And to be honest its "free to play" so you actually only spent money because you wanted to, not because you had to in order to play it.

Uh, they all but stopped development in 2016 to work on MW5. Please try and catch up. Or are you going to tell me PGI did LOTS of work on MWO in 2016?

Edited by Jun Watarase, 04 December 2016 - 02:20 AM.

[Tarl Cabot]

MW5 out in 2018.. License comes up for renewal in 2018, provided certain criteria/milestones are met....Simply noting for MWO to be ported to Unreal engine, it will likely not happen unless PGI is able to renew the license in 2018. And that cost of that licensing may very well come from MW5 sales.

Edited by Tarl Cabot, 04 December 2016 - 02:23 AM.

[Tristan Winter]

I approve. MWO has gone just about as far as it can go, I think. In order to fulfill its potential they would need to start over. In order to start over, they need money. In order to get money, they need faith from the customers. They don't have much faith right now, but maybe they can regain some faith after they release MW5.

Here's hoping.

[-Natural Selection-]

Jun Watarase, on 04 December 2016 - 02:20 AM, said:

When you are a small game developer and you have a game that has been out of beta for more than 4 years but is still using placeholder systems and can't even deliver on it's initial promises, then diverting funds and resources to another game is highly inappropriate.

If you were a free lance developer and you decided to take your client's money and spend time developing another project (instead of finishing your client's project, the one he paid you for), i'm pretty sure they would be very unhappy with you.

Nobody would be complaining if MWO was a great game, very well developed and delivered on most of it's initial promises. The problem people have is that PGI left MWO unfinished to work on MW5 instead, which is the reason why 2016 has had almost no updates other than mechpacks.



Uh, they all but stopped development in 2016 to work on MW5. Please try and catch up. Or are you going to tell me PGI did LOTS of work on MWO in 2016?

They did just about as much as I expected to a game that seems to barely float and has never been able to get a good grip on new players. It mainly appeals to a small fan base who only seem to be pleased by being dissatisfied.

The people who thought they just game up on something else after the announcement of Transverse must be a bit clueless. I actually figured they were shutting down the servers after the finals to launch a new game tbh.

[Jun Watarase]

Tristan Winter, on 04 December 2016 - 02:33 AM, said:

I approve. MWO has gone just about as far as it can go, I think. In order to fulfill its potential they would need to start over. In order to start over, they need money. In order to get money, they need faith from the customers. They don't have much faith right now, but maybe they can regain some faith after they release MW5.

Here's hoping.

How exactly do you figure that a developer who fails to deliver on their promises then goes off to work on another game is going to get MORE faith, rather than less?

Let's say you are a business owner. You hire some guy to design a website. The website he delivers is unfinished. You keep waiting for updates. Then you find out he took your money and instead of working full time on your website to finish it, he is working part time on something else. With your money.

Do you trust him more or less?

Mickey Knoxx, on 04 December 2016 - 02:33 AM, said:

They did just about as much as I expected to a game that seems to barely float and has never been able to get a good grip on new players. It mainly appeals to a small fan base who only seem to be pleased by being dissatisfied.

The people who thought they just game up on something else after the announcement of Transverse must be a bit clueless. I actually figured they were shutting down the servers after the finals to launch a new game tbh.

>divert time and money to other games while leaving their main game unfinished
>wonder why their main game doesn't seem to make as much money as it could

Gee...i wonder why?

[Pjwned]

Jun Watarase, on 04 December 2016 - 02:20 AM, said:

When you are a small game developer and you have a game that has been out of beta for more than 4 years but is still using placeholder systems and can't even deliver on it's initial promises, then diverting funds and resources to another game is highly inappropriate.

You're right and that's why I don't like it, but it's not like it's anything particularly shady (such as my example of using Founder money) because paying customers paid to get more in-game stuff and not necessarily to pay for future development of the game; anybody who thinks otherwise is delusional.

I would also like to add that I have absolutely no sympathy whatsoever for anybody that's spent any significant amount of money on MWO and is now unhappy about how PGI is using their funds, because PGI has had an atrocious history of development for years now and they probably would've been forced to actually work on MWO more if people didn't just dump out their wallets anyways for every new mech pack...you know, actually making the game better to encourage people to pay for stuff instead of ****ing out mech packs and practically nothing else since it works when people lap it all up anyways.

Quote

If you were a free lance developer and you decided to take your client's money and spend time developing another project (instead of finishing your client's project, the one he paid you for), i'm pretty sure they would be very unhappy with you.

That's not the same thing though and you can get in legal trouble for doing that. There was no contract between PGI and its customers that all of the money raised with MWO would go back into MWO or even that PGI had any actual obligations to continue development (aside from delivering mechs that people pre-ordered anyways) so you're comparing apples & oranges.

Quote

Nobody would be complaining if MWO was a great game, very well developed and delivered on most of it's initial promises. The problem people have is that PGI left MWO unfinished to work on MW5 instead, which is the reason why 2016 has had almost no updates other than mechpacks.

Again, part of the problem is the people funding PGI being major chumps, but yes I don't like the situation either.

[L1f3H4ck]

Yo, I wanted MW5:Mercs to begin with. I approve 100%

[Jun Watarase]

I know there was no written contract (possibly a verbal one depending on canadian law), but there were promises made. IMHO there is a moral obligation for them to finish MWO before diverting resources to another game.

Its like a politician promising things that he never delivers. Legal? Yes (unfortunately, which is why so many governments end up being corrupt messes). Shady? Very.

Big companies with lots of resources can have multiple teams working on multiple projects at the same time. PGI does not fall into this category. They do not have dozens of developers in 2 or more project teams. I think they have like 6? If PGI had the resources to work on both games full time, there would be zero issues. But they don't. The reason why 2016 has been dismal in terms of updates (mechpacks don't count) is because they were only working on it part time. Why? Because they wanted MW5 to give them more money.

Edited by Jun Watarase, 04 December 2016 - 02:52 AM.

[Tristan Winter]

Jun Watarase, on 04 December 2016 - 02:40 AM, said:

How exactly do you figure that a developer who fails to deliver on their promises then goes off to work on another game is going to get MORE faith, rather than less?
Let's say you are a business owner. You hire some guy to design a website. The website he delivers is unfinished. You keep waiting for updates. Then you find out he took your money and instead of working full time on your website to finish it, he is working part time on something else. With your money.
Do you trust him more or less?

I don't think it's a good example. But to answer your question, MW5 would need to be a big success before they can start asking for more money for a MWO2. If they release MW5 and everybody loves it, people will be more willing to invest in MWO2. You may not think it's a good idea to give PGI more money, but I think it's almost 100% certain that people will keep paying PGI if they manage to make MW5 a good game.

[chucklesMuch]

Np - both are mech game. Hopefully it's win win in regards to a future mwo engine update. Co-op would be mint.

[Spam Lanwalker]

lol they finally get to releasing MW5 and you are worried it will take funds from MWO ?????? wtf ? MWO can die in a fire, MW5 is where pgi should direct funds and time.

[ice trey]

Short answer?

No, I'm not bothered.

Single Player was what we wanted and should have had in the first place. At last, a chance to get off the hamster wheel. When MWO started, I was apprehensive at "online only", but hopeful about the promise of the fabled "Community warfare" that would tie it all together and feel like it meant something. It never panned out, but I lost my white-knight whale status when the fabled CW didn't show up before the first clan-mechs hit. Even cancelled my order. Not a bad thing, considering that CW is the best part of MWO that nobody wants to play, and I can't use them there.

I'm going to have to come into MWO with the same nervous scepticism as well. On the plus side? It's a story-driven, single player Mechwarrior title. On the other, it's PGI at the helm. Also, there's a Raven in a game supposedly set in 3015.

Edited by ice trey, 04 December 2016 - 03:04 AM.

[A Shoddy Rental Mech]

Tristan Winter, on 04 December 2016 - 02:33 AM, said:

I approve. MWO has gone just about as far as it can go, I think. In order to fulfill its potential they would need to start over. In order to start over, they need money. In order to get money, they need faith from the customers. They don't have much faith right now, but maybe they can regain some faith after they release MW5.

PGI ran out of faith. Look up Transverse.
Instead of faith to get money, PGI diverted MWO money to MW5.

Just like the government claiming they need more money to fix the roads and bridges and then using the money to build a roadside park.

[Tristan Winter]

The Nerf Bat, on 04 December 2016 - 03:02 AM, said:

PGI ran out of faith. Look up Transverse.
Instead of faith to get money, PGI diverted MWO money to MW5.

Just like the government claiming they need more money to fix the roads and bridges and then using the money to build a roadside park.

Maybe they ran out of faith from you and others. But there's a large group of people who will pay for MW5, that's for sure.

[Lily from animove]

I don't care that much about a MW5 directly. Mostly because single player stuff plays out too fast and I haven't seen any game in the last years with a decent AI, so expecting a MW5 to get a proepr AI is, wishful thinking.

However in total, it is important for the entire battletech/MW IP. keeping it alovwe and successful is what ensures we will get further game sin the future when MWO one day is outdated.

Cool would be to also get some RTS game of the IP, like a new mechcommander. Battletech is TPS and thats still a big difference.

Edited by Lily from animove, 04 December 2016 - 03:19 AM.

[Baulven]

There is one thing I have to say about this (Yes it is a bit salty) and that is I do not trust it until I see actual gameplay footage, not a cinematic and not a vertical slice. Most studios can cobble together a cinematic fairly easily and it does nothing to actually prove they are even working on the game at this point. In Russ's own quote "It is simply words" at this point.

While I was not here, I am able to find plenty of comments in the past about things being promised and not even worked on by their deadline. That does not give me warm fuzzies when they claim they are releasing this game. It comes across as "We are definitely releasing this game! In the year we renew the license! If we renew the license, that is... pay no attention to the last sentence!"

I know it's my cynical ******* side talking but I am not huge on trust when someone gives me no reason for blind faith.

Edited by Baulven, 04 December 2016 - 03:27 AM.

[Kaeb Odellas]

Jun Watarase, on 04 December 2016 - 02:49 AM, said:

I know there was no written contract (possibly a verbal one depending on canadian law), but there were promises made. IMHO there is a moral obligation for them to finish MWO before diverting resources to another game.

Its like a politician promising things that he never delivers. Legal? Yes (unfortunately, which is why so many governments end up being corrupt messes). Shady? Very.

Big companies with lots of resources can have multiple teams working on multiple projects at the same time. PGI does not fall into this category. They do not have dozens of developers in 2 or more project teams. I think they have like 6? If PGI had the resources to work on both games full time, there would be zero issues. But they don't. The reason why 2016 has been dismal in terms of updates (mechpacks don't count) is because they were only working on it part time. Why? Because they wanted MW5 to give them more money.

Nonsense. PGI is under no obligation to "finish" MWO because MWO is not the kind of product you can "finish". It is a F2P multiplayer game under continuous development. Such games are never truly finished. They are merely abandoned.

And you're not paying them to develop MWO or MW5. We are not investors or shareholders. We are customers. We purchase access to digital robots for use in their robot shooting game. Some of us purchase pretty colors and knick knacks for our robots, or boosters to increase the rate at which we can upgrade our robots and acquire more. PGI's only obligation to you is to provide those things you purchase and maintain this service that they provide.

Edited by Kaeb Odellas, 04 December 2016 - 04:17 AM.