25 replies to this topic

[Angel of Annihilation]

NoiseCrypt, on 04 December 2016 - 11:51 AM, said:

I love the skilltree-nomorequirks concept, but i just added up the numbers from my stats.
(warning mediocre player data below)

I started playing a couple of weeks after the steam launch, and had a break over a couple of months during the summer.
This gives me an in-match time of 132 hours and 17 minutes. (5.5 days)
During this time i have earned 1'585'191mxp playing mainly lights and mediums.
If 75 skill-tree points is going cost 750'000mxp (and some cbills), then i will have enough mxp to "master" 2 of my +80mechs.
And it will take med 39 years to master the rest of them...

Yep and this is what people aren't taking into account. Someone said he had around 400 variants mastered but didn't care because everyone would be in the same boat and he would just use his accumulated XP to Master a few of his favorites then just grind out the rest of them. I figured it up and to master those 400 mech it would take something like 35,000 hours of game play.

500 matches to gain 750,000 XP per variant x 400 variants = 200,000 matches. Each Match is 10 mins long x 200,000 matches = 2,000,000 minutes of game play. 2,000,000 minutes is 33,300 hours of game play. Add in time waiting for que and you have probably 35,000 to 40,000 hours required. 35,000 hours is 1,458 days of game play and that is 1,458 full 24 hour days. Since even dedicated player would probably only average 4 hours played a day, the actually time required to master 400 mechs would be more like 8,750 days or roughly 24 years of playing 4 hours a day to master his 400 mechs.

Now I guess I am lucky. I only have a bit over 100 mechs currently so it will only take me roughly 6 years to get them back to the point there are are right now. So yeah, I don't understand how anyone can not see the problem with this especially since they are adding new mechs and it is likely that we will actually want to try out the new mechs too, except there will be no possibility of mastering the new mechs along with the ones we currently have so what's the point??

[NoiseCrypt]

Viktor Drake, on 04 December 2016 - 12:22 PM, said:

Yep and this is what people aren't taking into account. Someone said he had around 400 variants mastered but didn't care because everyone would be in the same boat and he would just use his accumulated XP to Master a few of his favorites then just grind out the rest of them. I figured it up and to master those 400 mech it would take something like 35,000 hours of game play.

500 matches to gain 750,000 XP per variant x 400 variants = 200,000 matches. Each Match is 10 mins long x 200,000 matches = 2,000,000 minutes of game play. 2,000,000 minutes is 33,300 hours of game play. Add in time waiting for que and you have probably 35,000 to 40,000 hours required. 35,000 hours is 1,458 days of game play and that is 1,458 full 24 hour days. Since even dedicated player would probably only average 4 hours played a day, the actually time required to master 400 mechs would be more like 8,750 days or roughly 24 years of playing 4 hours a day to master his 400 mechs.

Now I guess I am lucky. I only have a bit over 100 mechs currently so it will only take me roughly 6 years to get them back to the point there are are right now. So yeah, I don't understand how anyone can not see the problem with this especially since they are adding new mechs and it is likely that we will actually want to try out the new mechs too, except there will be no possibility of mastering the new mechs along with the ones we currently have so what's the point??

They should make it 75 points pr chassie to unlock. Then for each variant you would freely be able to distribute the total number of unlocked points.

Lets say that you unlock 15 points for the HBK chassie. Then each variant you own could freely distribute 15 points each.

Edited by NoiseCrypt, 04 December 2016 - 12:27 PM.

[Hunka Junk]

Not that I'm buying, but can people buy a single mech now instead of pre-ordering three?

[Peter2k]

Widowmaker1981, on 04 December 2016 - 10:30 AM, said:

Id assume it will be per variant - i.e you'd never have to grind more than one Kodiak-3, for example.

The details we have seem to be a bit sketchy, i think its probably best to wait and see when we have details and can work things out properly. I doubt it will be millions of XP to master a mech, if im honest.

https://www.twitch.t...mes/v/105055090

at timestamp: 09:03:20

Russ saying:

Quote

every mech has its own tree

if you own 2 JR7-D Jenners, each one has its own skill tree

the difference to before is you don't need 3 variants of a mech any more to level it up

good/bad
undecided

[TLBFestus]

RestosIII, on 04 December 2016 - 10:32 AM, said:

They seemed to imply that each mech you own will have its own skill tree. For instance, someone that owns a TBR-Prime (I) and a TBR-Prime would have separate trees for them.

I think that the skill tree will apply to the chassis, not the variant.

However, say you have 2 variants of a chassis, one that's primarily ballistic and another that's primarily energy. You will have to grind out specific skill tree branches for BOTH choices if you want the chassis skill tree to be effective for energy AND ballistic. In other words, fill out both branches in the skill tree for it to be useful for either variant you chose to use. You won't have to duplicate earlier choices, but build upon different specializations.

Therein lies the difficulty in mastering EVERYTHING. It will be incredibly costly in terms of XP and tend to force people to tweak towards their preferred play style.

[Tristan Winter]

Viktor Drake, on 04 December 2016 - 12:11 PM, said:

You do realize there is a big difference between end game and grind right because it sure doesn't sound like you do.

If you're going to be so patronising, you should at least show some consideration for the underlying problem, which is that people don't all universally agree on what an endgame is in a PVP game, or any game, for that matter. The system you describe is not what everyone wants. Spending a million XP to unlock an ability is not something everyone wants.

And what you summarize as "that is the issue" is not really the issue that everyone is complaining about. There are several issues.

Prof RJ Gumby, on 04 December 2016 - 11:39 AM, said:

Hiding basic features behind a grindwall does not make an endgame content. Anything that directly affects basic pug matches everybody starts with cannot be called an endgame content.
Endgame content, besides unique cosmetics, could be a functioning Community Warfare, some bases for units you can build or some other stuff like that.
Not that I ever cried about lack of endgame content. It's a good thing to have, but smashing mechs is fun in itself.
In this case adapting and overcoming would basically mean don't ever try bad mechs or be ready for 2 months of getting your rear handed to you because you dared to do so. Such fun game.

Again, I think people have different ideas for what is endgame content. Not every PVP game is going to have CW. And then, what is really the qualitative difference between CW and QP? The fact that we're fighting over a starmap, which is reset every 6 months? How is building a base different?

In MMORPGs, endgame content is usually stuff that is inaccessible until you reach the max level cap, like level 60 in SWTOR (last time I played) or level 500 in Warcraft (or whatever they're up to now). Then you can play the endgame dungeons and get endgame loot and play some endgame PVP, which is inaccessible to all other players. In MWO, you couldn't really have something like an endgame game mode or an endgame location in CW, because there probably wouldn't be enough people to play it. Unless you made Tier 1 endgame. But then, people would complain that it wasn't really endgame, because it wasn't exclusive enough.

What is endgame? People have so many different perspectives on this. What if endgame was access to unique mechs, like the Flea and the Mackie? But then people would complain that you're still basically just playing the same matches in QP and FP.

People have different expectations for endgame. It's much easier in simple PVP games like CS:S, where there is no endgame. You just play the game. Like playing soccer or training boxing. There's no endgame. You just play and play and play.

WarHippy, on 04 December 2016 - 11:12 AM, said:

Long term end game goals should not ever include basic improvements to make your mech actually functional. Basic functionality should not ever be locked behind a long grind. Cosmetic goals? Great! Take six months to unlock something cosmetic is fine by me, but to put necessary skills to remain competitive behind a long tedious grind is a pretty big negative in my book.

In another perspective, making bad mechs functional is actually the endgame. When you finally unlock all the skills for the Mist Lynx so it becomes viable, it's that endgame content.

Listen, I don't disagree with you. But the point is that people have different preferences and expectations for what constitutes endgame. I think it's a mistake to strip all base level benefits for bad mechs like the Mist Lynx or Awesome. Imagine unquirked Kodiaks versus unquirked Highlanders in Tier 5 queue. New players who don't understand how the game work are going to buy bad mechs and then be forced to grind for hundreds of hours to make them viable. That's a problem, naturally.

I personally would prefer cosmetic goals to be the only long term goals in MWO. I don't like the term endgame unless it's either handled like an MMORPG (unique dungeons at level 60) or handled like Star Conflict (more complex gameplay as you graduate from Tier 1 to Tier 2, all the way up to Tier 6. You get to play more complex game modes, new maps and you get more complex skills and abilities as you progress). Since we're never going to get that, cosmetic goals only is fine by me.

In my mind, the lack of endgame content is not a problem in itself. The problem is that the new skill tree is making it harder for people to start playing sub-par mechs like the Highlander or Phoenix Hawk, because they need to suffer through a boring grind in order to make them viable.