27 replies to this topic

[Core310]

Is Artemis a must on lrm boats or any other designs?

[Koniving]

Core310, on 04 December 2016 - 05:44 PM, said:

Is Artemis a must on lrm boats or any other designs?

SRM-4 or less, no.
SRM-6, it's a good idea.

LRMs?
No, TAG suffices for similar results. Artemis would work better against faster targets and smaller targets, but beyond this it is not needed at all. I only use Artemis for an LRM if I have a single launcher of the 20-range.

Or if I have the tonnage to spare to slap it on two launchers (and back it up with plenty of Streak launchers).

(Playing on and off since 2012. Own 213 mechs currently. If that says anything.)

[Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood]

On the Clan side use it on SRM4 and SRM6, on IS side use it on SRM6.

For LRMs use it on LRM15 and LRM20 on either side, it helps decrease the spread significantly if you have line of sight of the target. It stacks further if you also use a TAG laser, leading to pretty precise LRM barrages.

For Streak SRMs always add Artemis, as its just a free upgrade.

[TercieI]

Essentially required on SRM6, helpful on SRM4s (moreso on the clan side).

No reason to use SRM2s or LRMs.

[Tarl Cabot]

And for LRMS, Artemis bonus only works with LOS. If you are using another mech's LOS targeting while you are behind a hill/structure with no actual LOS yourself then your ALRMS receives no benefit from Artemis.

Edited by Tarl Cabot, 04 December 2016 - 09:27 PM.

[TooDumbToQuit]

I've really been working on it and it is very very hard to use LRMs on anyone in LOS for very long. (as in seconds)

The simple reason being that Lasers and Auto Cannons fly faster than LRMs. yuck yuck

I know that the "death by LRM 5's" is more efficient, but when being shot at, I use twin 15's or twin 20's. And that is when I use Artemis.

If you are using non-Artemis LRMs, then fire away at anything because chances are you have a lot of ammo. But if you have Artemis and less ammo, work hard to see and fire at open targets at no more than 4-500 meters at least 80% of the time. I find that having less ammo also makes you use them more wisely.

And as far as SRMs. I use with 6's and not with 4's.

[Metus regem]

IS SRMs:

SRM2; No
SRM4: Debateable
SRM6: Yes

SSRM2: Meh, why not free it doesn't take crit space. And yes, for what ever reason Artemis does effect SSRM's when it shouldn't.


Clan Side;

SRM2: No
SRM4: Yes
SRM6: Yes

SSRM's: Yes, the quicker lock time is nice, for no cirt spaces taken.

[Brizna]

LRM5 + Artemis is CT seeking and is totally worth it since it concentrates the damage in a tighter cluster which will result in 2 great benefits:

1: Tighter beam mean s more damage in less components against large targets, this lead to killing faster.
2: Less wasted missiles hitting the ground for small and fast targets: this lead to killing faster.

Killing faster least to wining but also to saving ammo, Artemis 1 ton + 1 crit.... so you compensate by having to carry less ammo.

And a side effect, since artemis requires LOS you will be a better lurmer, one that support the team from mid range and shares armor with it.

[VonBruinwald]

LikeUntoGod, on 05 December 2016 - 10:15 AM, said:

I've really been working on it and it is very very hard to use LRMs on anyone in LOS for very long. (as in seconds)

The simple reason being that Lasers and Auto Cannons fly faster than LRMs. yuck yuck

If you're fighting at short/mid-range Adv. Target Decay will allow you to maintain your lock while you duck back in cover.

If you're fighting at longrange, lock, lurm, and duck. You only need to pop your head out again a second before contact in order to reacquire/maintain the lock.

[Tesunie]

Looks like most has already been answered, but just to confirm what they say (or "adding my 2 cents worth"):
For SRMs, anything under an SRM4 doesn't really need it. Even then, SRM6s can work without it fine, but they work with Artemis rather well.
For SSRMs (Streak or homing), YES. Every time (provided you aren't using some other missiles, depending upon their situations). It's tonnage free for SSRMs but provides faster lock on speeds for them. A must have.
For LRMs... Depends upon the launcher size and what you are intending to use them for. LRM5s don't need Artemis at all. LRM10s and 15s are borderline (15s could use it more), and LRM20s are more recommended to have Artemis than not. But it still isn't a "necessity" either.

For LRMs, if you only ever intend to use them indirectly (which I will note is one of the worst ways to use LRMs), than Artemis will not help you very much. If you have nothing but LRMs (not recommended by me), than Artemis is more useful. If it's a support weapon, than you might not wish to place that much tonnage into them. If you have a couple of larger launchers (and you aren't afraid to get direct sight) than it is worth it.

With Artemis, you have to consider a lot of things. Most of my LRM mechs don't have it. Some do. I tend to find, provided all missile slots are not going towards LRMs, that I like to mix LRMs with SSRMs if I'm taking Artemis, as the Artemis will benefit a few large launchers most, and then free benefits for the SSRMs I supplement my mech with.


Overall, and I know this isn't helpful, but it honestly depends upon what you are intending to do with your mech and it's loadout. Artemis is never a "must have" for SRMs nor LRMs, but it can be very helpful with certain launcher sizes (larger) and tactics. For SSRMs (if you have no other missiles in use) it IS a must have (and so is BAP for SSRMs).

Ultimately it comes down to preference and tactics. You'll hear a lot of different suggestions around the forums. I suggest you experiment and see if you feel it is helpful. Some people want to get locks as fast as possible, which Artemis helps with. Other people just want to send some damage downrange and give the enemy warning bells, which Artemis doesn't matter for so much. It really depends upon what you are wanting out of your selected missiles.

[Koniving]

Note:
Artemis isn't supposed to enhance Streaks, but as an oversight since LRMs and Streaks share the same code, lock on times for Streaks is also reduced by 25% by Artemis.

[Victor Morson]

Koniving, on 04 December 2016 - 05:48 PM, said:

No, TAG suffices for similar results. Artemis would work better against faster targets and smaller targets, but beyond this it is not needed at all. I only use Artemis for an LRM if I have a single launcher of the 20-range.

Well this is nostalgic. Still misinformation on TAG/Artemis for LRMs.

OP: The two of these things stack. If you are LRM heavy you want both. No exceptions. The combined benefit will let you hit light 'mechs and focus-fire damage far more effectively. One or the other alone isn't enough. It impacts both turn rate and impact-density and has a considerable effect on AMS.

Edited by Victor Morson, 05 December 2016 - 01:15 PM.

[Tesunie]

Victor Morson, on 05 December 2016 - 01:14 PM, said:

Well this is nostalgic. Still misinformation on TAG/Artemis for LRMs.

OP: The two of these things stack. If you are LRM heavy you want both. No exceptions. The combined benefit will let you hit light 'mechs and focus-fire damage far more effectively. One or the other alone isn't enough. It impacts both turn rate and impact-density and has a considerable effect on AMS.

Actually.. Koniving was correct. Artemis and TAG (on their own) has very similar effects. He never mentioned if their affects stacked or not, which as you just stated, they do.

Depending upon the build and the intended tactics for it, Artemis and TAG together is recommended. If you are using LRMs for support instead of as a primary weapon though, each are optional.

Also, I don't believe that TAG, Artemis or even NARC has any effect on AMS's abilities on missile weapons. If anything, it makes the damage that gets through AMS more meaningful, as it's more concentrated. (Unless that was what you were referencing to,)

[Core310]

Thanks guys for replying helped me a lot

[jss78]

SRM6 spread used to be really awful without Artemis. After that patch around ... a year? ago that greatly reduced the spread, they feel halfway useful to me even without Artemis.

I feel like the usefulness of Artemis really improves if you're super good at leading targets with SRM's. If you can pound them into a single component most of the time, I'm sure it can be worthwhile even on SRM4's.

SRM2's definitely no Artemis, but SRM2's are just rarely used in general. I use them occasionally on 'mechs which mainly rely on other weapons but have some missile hardpoints. They are extremely weight-efficient but lack maximum damage potential, so you have to find a place for them through weapon synergies.

(After two years of playing, did not know that Artemis affects Streaks. Time to upgrade on those couple 'mechs of mine which run SSRM2's.)

[TooDumbToQuit]

Tesunie, on 05 December 2016 - 01:21 PM, said:

Actually.. Koniving was correct. Artemis and TAG (on their own) has very similar effects. He never mentioned if their affects stacked or not, which as you just stated, they do. Depending upon the build and the intended tactics for it, Artemis and TAG together is recommended. If you are using LRMs for support instead of as a primary weapon though, each are optional. Also, I don't believe that TAG, Artemis or even NARC has any effect on AMS's abilities on missile weapons. If anything, it makes the damage that gets through AMS more meaningful, as it's more concentrated. (Unless that was what you were referencing to,)

I'm a big believer in TAG and not just for yourself, if you are calling LRM targets then call when you are tagging. And your teammates LRMs will use it (I think)

AMS is one reason I'm turning away from smaller LRM 5's that do not need Artemis. I've noticed watching recorded games that the streams of 5's often get shot down. So I decided to overwhelm them with numbers. So two LRM 15's or two LRM 20's fired at the same time.

I would fire and use Narcs with my LRMs if I was that coordinated. I do not have the 2nd module for that Mech yet so no adv target decay. And I've found out that as I was told here, Adv Target decay simply equals out radar derp.

Tag, Artemis, and Narc from 2-500 meters would be what I need. So I need to work on Narcing. I've watched Koniving do it and I tried but...I need to practice more.

I'm trying to bring back Medium Range Missiles...lol. A combination of firing lasers and shooting mass amounts of LRMs at short range. It has to be enough to back almost anyone off or kill them.

If you wonder about LRMs, go to stats and check your accuracy. This is one stat that changed the way I look at them.

And I consider it a hard to break down stat. I'm not sure what it means. Does it mean the entire stream missed? Does it mean some hit and some missed? Maybe 14 out of 20? If some were shot down by AMS, how does this count? I would like it if your damage showed when you used anything.

These are some of the reasons I try to only shoot them at heavys or assaults. Almost never at lights. I assume that bigger targets will catch more of the LRM 15's and 20's and I wonder this about AMS. If I fire 30 LRMs (two 15's) and 8 are shot down, do the others fill the pattern?

I think I'm going down a MWO rabbit hole...

[Koniving]

Victor Morson, on 05 December 2016 - 01:14 PM, said:

Well this is nostalgic. Still misinformation on TAG/Artemis for LRMs.

OP: The two of these things stack. If you are LRM heavy you want both. No exceptions. The combined benefit will let you hit light 'mechs and focus-fire damage far more effectively. One or the other alone isn't enough. It impacts both turn rate and impact-density and has a considerable effect on AMS.

Doesn't mean it is misinformation. Just if you can only bring one, TAG is the one to bring (1 ton versus 1 ton per launcher for marginally the same benefit). If anything it's partial information.

Edited by Koniving, 05 December 2016 - 06:05 PM.

[JC Daxion]

I personally like adding artemis because of decreased lock times.. and it does stack with tag.. and if you are getting your own locks.. the faster the better..

that said, i don't run it on SRM2-4, or LRM5's unless i have the weight.. 10's again weight,, 15's and 20's almost always..

[TercieI]

Victor and Kon sniping at each other. It's like having my parents back.

[Timicon]

Sorry for replying late and I know someone else already posted this answer, but when it comes to LRMs and Artemis, it depends on how much you use (and like) LRMs. Artemis are a good investment (albeit somewhat expensive), but equipped with the Artemis system, LRMs stand a much better chance of hitting your target the LRMs without Artemis equipped, but in the long run, you do not necessarily need the Artemis LRM system; Artemis, as fr as I know, just helps LRMs home in a tad better than what regular LRMs do... But if I wrong about that last, someone please correct me on it.