196 replies to this topic

[NoiseCrypt]

BLOOD WOLF, on 04 December 2016 - 09:48 PM, said:

It's not the MWO forums without assertions with conclusive statements with 0 evidence, thats what these forums are known for

DaZur, on 04 December 2016 - 09:29 PM, said:

Don't ya know it's fashionable to run around with our hair on fire making wild speculation over things we have near-zero information on that we derived from some fancy graphics?

You know... MWO forum usual hysterics and hyperbole.

Yeonne Greene, on 04 December 2016 - 09:12 PM, said:

Did I miss something? The skill tree is still being tweaked, it's not set in stone. Russ said himself that that is what the next month is for.

He showcased a demo with some specific valus. Then he said that it was done for all intents an purposes, and that it only needed testing.

So the question is what he means by testing.
1) software stability
2) game play impact

Edited by NoiseCrypt, 05 December 2016 - 01:23 AM.

[NeoCodex]

I expect XP to be inflated, but it comes with tremendous value. I can finally get rid of the extra variants I'll never use (particularly the clans) and completely focus on just the few that I want. Not to mention that all the xp you grinded the bad mechs you will never use again will get refunded, all that additional milions of unused stockpiled xp on your favorite mechs is also refunded.

And you don't have to grind trough 3 chassis anymore, that alone is a big time saver! You only buy 1 chassis and level that, and you basicaly have to level it 3 times less now and all the value is getting into this single chassis. Even if they would inflate the required xp by 3 for this, it would still be acceptable for what we're getting.

There has to be some sort of XP inflation otherwise you could simply max all your mechs on day one, and from what I've seen in the video (10.000 XP for 1 SP, 75 SP per chassis = 75.000 total XP) I think that's a completely reasonable inflation and even less from what I would expect. Actually, this value seems really low for a fully mastered mech, it's barely anything more than the current mastery. They might change the values still but it seems pretty fair to me. Pretty sure I'll have plenty of extra cbills and xp lying around as I certainly won't be leveling all the mechs in my hangar at once.

And that's the beauty of it. With all of it refunded, you can just level up on the go the things you'll actually going to play right that moment.

Edited by NeoCodex, 05 December 2016 - 01:33 AM.

[AnTi90d]

NeoCodex, on 05 December 2016 - 01:29 AM, said:

10.000 XP for 1 SP, 75 SP per chassis = 75.000 total XP. I think that's a completely reasonable inflation and even less from what I would expect.

It's 750,000 XP. You missed a zero.. and 750k is assuming the last SP cost the same XP as the first few.

An average player, playing 2 hours a day will take ~150 days to master one single mech.

An average player, playing 4 hours a day will take ~75 days to master one single mech.

That cost is obscene.

..not to mention the imbalance this will create between mechs with sparse/low hardpoints versus the mechs with numerous/high hardpoints, since they will be losing all of their quirks.

Oh, but PGI will just give the underperforming mechs more SP slots!..

Great.. so it will take 200 days to master one underperforming mech?.. or 250?..

Edited by AnTi90d, 05 December 2016 - 01:47 AM.

[Oberost]

AnTi90d, on 05 December 2016 - 01:46 AM, said:

It's 750,000 XP. You missed a zero.. and 750k is assuming the last SP cost the same XP as the first few.

An average player, playing 2 hours a day will take ~150 days to master one single mech.

An average player, playing 4 hours a day will take ~75 days to master one single mech.

That cost is obscene.

..not to mention the imbalance this will create between mechs with sparse/low hardpoints versus the mechs with numerous/high hardpoints, since they will be losing all of their quirks.

Oh, but PGI will just give the underperforming mechs more SP slots!..

Great.. so it will take 200 days to master one underperforming mech?.. or 250?..

Not to speak about IS/Clan balance, that will go to hell.

No matter if an IS mech has more slots avalaible, this just means that an IS mech will take way more time to be balanced against a Clan one...

[Darky101]

It takes 60000 GXP for this guy to get the ac node done.....
60000
sixtyt housand!

That GXP amount is huge!
Its not about one pilot not being ment to master 100 mechs because that would kill mech sales.
Its about forcing you to use the gxp conversion, for MC, and increase income.

Thats going to hugely increase the performance gap between new players and veterans.
I was so happy about mechccons anouncments but if this proves to be true it will push mechwarrior too far into the pay to win puke game category for my taste....
And thats why they made it so much easier to list available xp for conversion.... its the next cashgrab!

Edited by Darky101, 05 December 2016 - 02:41 AM.

[Prof RJ Gumby]

First of all, it would be nice not to generalise and throw people that are concerned, worried, unfavourable with and rageing about the new skill tree into one bucket.

Secondly, it would be nice it is better to prevent the problem from occuring than to allow it take its toll for a period of time before it is fixed. Espacially that PGI, a company I actually rather like (I'm here from like May 2015, did not experience any of their worst practices from close beta and IGP era) is kinda slow on making changes. Better to prevent than to treat, right?

Thirdly, it would be nice to think that even if you don't mind it, introduction of a system that might make the New Player Experience much worse (time to get on par with other players just got extended from 2 to about 6 months), irritate the loyal customers and persuade paying customers into not paying for mechpacks (that are the no.1 way to keep this game running) might actually hurt the game overall and thus your experience in it as well.

Fourthy, it would be nice to understand that some people might feel cheated. Especially some of the paying customers. They bought mechpacks and thus supported the very existence of their game on a premise that the mechs they buy are not far away from getting "maxed out", i.e. from being competitive. Now it seems something they paid for is being taken away from them. Yes, in legal terms it is not like that, but in terms of honest business practices it is.

Edited by Prof RJ Gumby, 05 December 2016 - 02:48 AM.

[Ano]

TercieI, on 04 December 2016 - 07:38 PM, said:

OK, so I just looked at the video and they actually say there's a limited amount of SP per mech (and it appears the example has 75 as its limit). Wouldn't that just be 75,000 XP? That seems like no problem, only a slight increase over the current 57,750. Can cover the gap off my couple million XP mechs...

This is the impression I got, and frankly, the only sane way to implement such as system. Not only that, but it then makes specialisation a thing, even for identical chassis. So you could own two of the same variant of a chassis (for whatever reason -- favourable torso hardpoints?) and build a sniper loadout on one, and a brawler loadout on the other, then use the skill tree to specialise each one for the role you've selected.

I *think* this is what a lot of people wanted from the skill tree -- less "you must earn NNNN XP to fully empower your mech", more "you will use your earned XP to focus your mech's capabilities in the areas you find most useful". Choice, not merely "grind to 100%".

[NoiseCrypt]

Ano, on 05 December 2016 - 03:00 AM, said:

This is the impression I got, and frankly, the only sane way to implement such as system. Not only that, but it then makes specialisation a thing, even for identical chassis. So you could own two of the same variant of a chassis (for whatever reason -- favourable torso hardpoints?) and build a sniper loadout on one, and a brawler loadout on the other, then use the skill tree to specialise each one for the role you've selected.

I *think* this is what a lot of people wanted from the skill tree -- less "you must earn NNNN XP to fully empower your mech", more "you will use your earned XP to focus your mech's capabilities in the areas you find most useful". Choice, not merely "grind to 100%".

The demo shows a total cost of 750'000xp to master a mech.
With those numbers i will be able to master one or two mechs a year

[Ano]

Prof RJ Gumby, on 05 December 2016 - 02:46 AM, said:

Thirdly, it would be nice to think that even if you don't mind it, introduction of a system that might make the New Player Experience much worse (time to get on par with other players just got extended from 2 to about 6 months), irritate the loyal customers and persuade paying customers into not paying for mechpacks (that are the no.1 way to keep this game running) might actually hurt the game overall and thus your experience in it as well.

Fourthy, it would be nice to understand that some people might feel cheated. Especially some of the paying customers. They bought mechpacks and thus supported the very existence of their game on a premise that the mechs they buy are not far away from getting "maxed out", i.e. from being competitive. Now it seems something they paid for is being taken away from them. Yes, in legal terms it is not like that, but in terms of honest business practices it is.

Assuming there is a max-unlocks cap in place, the amount of XP per unlock is something that they need to balance. There is the tradeoff that in future, you won't need to buy 3 variants to "master" a mech, but I think it's fair to be concerned that if the XP values are badly tuned, the time it takes to get a mech to "solidly-skilled" (perhaps the equivalent of elited, but not mastered) could increase dramatically.

If that *is* the case, then there's going to be the negative effect you talk about for new players -- although at least they won't have to buy three of the same mech to "elite" their preferred chassis.

[Gaden Phoenix]

Ano, on 05 December 2016 - 03:06 AM, said:

Assuming there is a max-unlocks cap in place, the amount of XP per unlock is something that they need to balance. There is the tradeoff that in future, you won't need to buy 3 variants to "master" a mech, but I think it's fair to be concerned that if the XP values are badly tuned, the time it takes to get a mech to "solidly-skilled" (perhaps the equivalent of elited, but not mastered) could increase dramatically.

If that *is* the case, then there's going to be the negative effect you talk about for new players -- although at least they won't have to buy three of the same mech to "elite" their preferred chassis.

I just hope that the xp required is 75k XP and not 750k XP. But from the demo seems more like 750k XP then 75k.

Edited by Gaden Phoenix, 05 December 2016 - 03:14 AM.

[Lightfoot]

Well, if it takes too many XP points to reach a simple Mastery, say the Speed Boost, players will just be piloting Mad Cats, Loki's, Cheetahs, Dire Wolves, Locusts, Maulers, etc., and not buy new mechs. It's a tricky thing. Players will be more focused on a few good mechs if the Skill Tree buffs are actually worth anything. Too little value and the Skill Trees will seem like a joke. Too much XP and they will stop new sales of mechs.

The way it should be done is to have the mid level buffs or path to a special single buff be reachable in a normal amount of time and then get harder as you unlock the ace levels.

How is my XP being refunded is another question.

I actually think they should keep the weapon modules since those are not specific to any mech. You could also have some Skill Tree buffs working like Quirks, but weapon mastery is more from the pilot than the mech. Am I now supposed to forget that I am a laser or LRM master just because I pilot a different mech chassis or variant?

[NoiseCrypt]

Lightfoot, on 05 December 2016 - 03:15 AM, said:

Well, if it takes too many XP points to reach a simple Mastery, say the Speed Boost, players will just be piloting Mad Cats, Loki's, Cheetahs, Dire Wolves, Locusts, Maulers, etc., and not buy new mechs. It's a tricky thing. Players will be more focused on a few good mechs if the Skill Tree buffs are actually worth anything. Too little value and the Skill Trees will seem like a joke. Too much XP and they will stop new sales of mechs.

The way it should be done is to have the mid level buffs or path to a special single buff be reachable in a normal amount of time and then get harder as you unlock the ace levels.

How is my XP being refunded is another question.

I actually think they should keep the weapon modules since those are not specific to any mech. You could also have some Skill Tree buffs working like Quirks, but weapon mastery is more from the pilot than the mech. Am I now supposed to forget that I am a laser or LRM master just because I pilot a different mech chassis or variant?

https://mwomercs.com...-roadmap-beyond

All past Module purchases will be refunded to you in whole, and all GXP and 'Mech XP spent on Skill or Module unlocks will be carried over as 'Legacy GXP', to be used at-will for unlocking new nodes in the revamped Skill Tree system for any variant.

[Kmieciu]

Ano, on 05 December 2016 - 03:06 AM, said:

you won't need to buy 3 variants to "master" a mech

Right now only need 14250 XP for basic skills, then you can sell the mech you don't like to use.
35750 XP gets you elite skills, where the only thing missing is 1 extea module slot (that most mechs don't even need).
57250 XP to master a single variant. 85750 XP if you count the 2 other variants you need to grind.

It doesn't matter if the new systems throws away the 3-mech rule, if it cranks up the grind 10-fold.

It's in PGI`s best interest is to make mech leveling fast enough so that when the player reaches mech mastery he's got enough C-bills to buy a new mech. When a player buys a mech, PGI gets $$$.

Edited by Kmieciu, 05 December 2016 - 03:53 AM.

[Darky101]

So someone with a twitter account please ask about those insane values.

I won't grind those amounts out, and I will definitely not buy that amount of GXP with real cash.
I buy the occasional Mechpack or MC but these values look absurd and would be a real dealbreaker for me!

[Kmieciu]

Darky101, on 05 December 2016 - 03:27 AM, said:

I buy the occasional Mechpack or MC but these values look absurd and would be a real dealbreaker for me!

Imagine how painful it will be to level those new, quirkless, mechs you spent real $$$ on playing against fully upgraded Kodiaks, Timber Wolves and HBKIICs.

Edited by Kmieciu, 05 December 2016 - 03:33 AM.

[NoiseCrypt]

Darky101, on 05 December 2016 - 03:27 AM, said:

So someone with a twitter account please ask about those insane values.

I won't grind those amounts out, and I will definitely not buy that amount of GXP with real cash.
I buy the occasional Mechpack or MC but these values look absurd and would be a real dealbreaker for me!

https://twitter.com/...683463152091136

Edited by NoiseCrypt, 05 December 2016 - 03:34 AM.

[TexAce]

FupDup, on 04 December 2016 - 06:46 PM, said:

You do know that the REASON we're complaining right now is TO HELP THEM CHANGE IT, right?

If nobody raises any complaints, PGI won't see any reason to change it. Why would they change something that the entire playerbase thinks is perfect?

You sound just like one of those people that don't think people should make complaints about the PTR. "Oh, it's just PTR, it's not final yet! You can't criticize anything on it!"

Never, ever, will "the entire player base" agree together on something being either good or bad. When did this happen ever in this game's 4-5 years? Come on, seriously.

Screaming "change it" only because you saw a 30-seconds preview of it is just bananas.

Let's wait and see. I dont care if they reset everything or not, I play this game for 4 years now, its way past over its lifetime, so who cares anymore. No one.

Wipe everything clean, change over to Unreal 4 engine and call it MWO2 and I'm fine with that. (Becuase that is what will happen 2018-2019 so get used to it.)

Edited by TexAce, 05 December 2016 - 03:37 AM.

[Ex Atlas Overlord]

oldradagast, on 04 December 2016 - 06:49 PM, said:

- Veteran players are rightly ticked off that they'll go from dozens of fully mastered mechs to a handful.

I'm not.

If they refund XP on mechs I'll still have millions left to spare

[HGAK47]

Are some of you guys insane!? Customising our mechs and skill trees / quirks? Being able to customise our mechs based on how we like to play!?!? Hell yes please!!!

I think it should cost more in game resources to tweak all of our mechs at this level of fine detail.

Really surprised and happy about the mech con announcements.

[Darky101]

NoiseCrypt, on 05 December 2016 - 03:34 AM, said:

https://twitter.com/...683463152091136

Thank you!