196 replies to this topic

[MechWarrior5152251]

PGI is shooting themselves in the foot. All this will do is reduce the number of mechs people use. They won't buy new mechs because they won't want to grind 3 new variants. People will just play their favorite 3 or 4 mechs.

[Duke Nedo]

Ex Atlas Overlord, on 05 December 2016 - 03:40 AM, said:

I'm not.
If they refund XP on mechs I'll still have millions left to spare

It's no joke lol, if it's 750k xp to ace out each mech variant now I'll go from 200 mastered mechs to 17 mastered mechs, meaning that I will only play my very best mechs and I'll not be arsed to even start levelling up Victors or Dragons in unskilled AND unquirked form. I don't hate my self that much...

Kmieciu, on 05 December 2016 - 03:33 AM, said:

Imagine how painful it will be to level those new, quirkless, mechs you spent real $$$ on playing against fully upgraded Kodiaks, Timber Wolves and HBKIICs.

This is the thing, I doubt PGI has thought that through. As it is now the worst mechs ship with quirks, then it's moderately painful to skill them up. In the new system they will ship as RAW suck-bots and will be masochistic to skill up.

Edited by Duke Nedo, 05 December 2016 - 03:56 AM.

[oldradagast]

Duke Nedo, on 05 December 2016 - 03:55 AM, said:

It's no joke lol, if it's 750k xp to ace out each mech variant now I'll go from 200 mastered mechs to 17 mastered mechs, meaning that I will only play my very best mechs and I'll not be arsed to even start levelling up Victors or Dragons in unskilled AND unquirked form. I don't hate my self that much...

This is the thing, I doubt PGI has thought that through. As it is now the worst mechs ship with quirks, then it's moderately painful to skill them up. In the new system they will ship as RAW suck-bots and will be masochistic to skill up.

This is PGI we're talking about. If this goes live without a game-crashing bug, I'll be surprised... as for testing balance, yeah... not going to happen.

We're right back to the pre-quirk days when the Clans were released. Remember how much "fun" that was? Oh, but wait - if you're willing to take a 2nd job grinding sub-par mechs in MWO, you can maybe unlock some quirk-like skills that might make them able to compete with unleveled versions of the meta-mechs... which, but then, will already be leveled.

On the plus side, with this insane new system, the high XP requirements, and the removal of the 3 of a kind rule, you'll never need to buy another mech again. Good for player's wallets, bad for PGI.

[Duke Nedo]

oldradagast, on 05 December 2016 - 04:10 AM, said:

This is PGI we're talking about. If this goes live without a game-crashing bug, I'll be surprised... as for testing balance, yeah... not going to happen.

We're right back to the pre-quirk days when the Clans were released. Remember how much "fun" that was? Oh, but wait - if you're willing to take a 2nd job grinding sub-par mechs in MWO, you can maybe unlock some quirk-like skills that might make them able to compete with unleveled versions of the meta-mechs... which, but then, will already be leveled.

On the plus side, with this insane new system, the high XP requirements, and the removal of the 3 of a kind rule, you'll never need to buy another mech again. Good for player's wallets, bad for PGI.

One way around it would be if bad mechs have larger skill trees and start off with a set amount of legacy XP that it can spend freely to bring it up to par before you start grinding your own XP into the mech. I totally trust PGI to... wait. Nevermind.

[oldradagast]

Duke Nedo, on 05 December 2016 - 04:13 AM, said:

One way around it would be if bad mechs have larger skill trees and start off with a set amount of legacy XP that it can spend freely to bring it up to par before you start grinding your own XP into the mech. I totally trust PGI to... wait. Nevermind.

Exactly. This is PGI. No way in heck will they get this right. You'll probably have to grind half-way through the skill tree of a crud mech to get your quirks back - by then, the meta-mechs will be even more powerful. And there's no way you'll get the big quirks back, either. Those are almost surely gone for good.

Yeah, yeah - the white-knights are all whining about the facts we've pointed out (as usual), but they can't defend this lunacy, and if they had any wit at all they'd know by now based on PGI's track record that this is not going to end well if implemented in any way close to the displayed form.

[Widowmaker1981]

I doubt it will be the millions people are suggesting, seems pretty unlikely.. but, this is what im getting from this whole ruckus:

Players: We want end game progression!
PGI: Ok, here is end game progression.
Players: But now all my mechs wont be mastered anymore!
PGI: Erm, what? So what end game progression did you want then?
Players: Erm.. something something.. er.. Cosmetic maybe?.
PGI: Our research indicates that most people don't consider that to be actual progression though, as they cannot see the outside of their mechs while they play them..
Players: WONT SOMEONE THINK OF THE CHILDREN NEW PLAYERS?!

my point is i dont think PGI will be able to please everyone with this - i seriously doubt that the final XP value is going to be millions, personally - and we need to see actual numbers, but it is possible that PGI dont feel that you should be able to master every single mech you use. Yes, they could do it wrong, but we dont know enough at this point. Maybe the XP requirement is exponential, starting off slowly, so a mech can fairly rapidly be say, 90% effective after not too long, and the other 10% then takes a long time? We just dont know enough.

[L3mming2]

RestosIII, on 04 December 2016 - 06:58 PM, said:

Hiding quirks necessary to keep **** mechs from being **** behind grinding doesn't sound good to me. I need a lot more details on this system before I can get even close to promoting it, because there's a large chance a ton of IS mechs and Clan mechs are about to become about as valuable to us as a drum set was to Helen Keller. I don't think they should replace all quirks with skill trees, honestly. "Oh, but underperforming mechs might have more points available than others!" That still doesn't change the fact that they'll be terrible until you grind them out. The current skill system has nice bonuses, but it's not entirely necessary to master a mech and still have fun at T2-T1. Make it so all of our quirks are linked into it though, where you have to grind to get back to pre-basic levels of efficiency, and you've got a situation where no-one will want to buy a new mech or start up on one they haven't piloted before, because if they do, they're going to get stomped. A lot.

looked up helen keller ==> ROFL XD
so wrong, so funny

[Gaden Phoenix]

Widowmaker1981, on 05 December 2016 - 04:32 AM, said:

I doubt it will be the millions people are suggesting, seems pretty unlikely.. but, this is what im getting from this whole ruckus:

Players: We want end game progression!
PGI: Ok, here is end game progression.
Players: But now all my mechs wont be mastered anymore!
PGI: Erm, what? So what end game progression did you want then?
Players: Erm.. something something.. er.. Cosmetic maybe?.
PGI: Our research indicates that most people don't consider that to be actual progression though, as they cannot see the outside of their mechs while they play them..
Players: WONT SOMEONE THINK OF THE CHILDREN NEW PLAYERS?!

Err I do not see alot of people wanting End Game Progression in MWO. Alot of people want more weapons, they fav mechs, Clan/IS balance, FW fixes and more game modes. Not end game progression. So if PGI thinks this is End Game Progression that many wanted... err that will be ... not quiet right...

Oh also alot of people want PvE, which is MW5 in 2+ years.

I have seen what End Game Progression has done to mmorpgs across the years. I have come to dislike "padded on" End Game Progression, which is near always super grindy.

I still remember Guild Wars 2 and their epic grindy Ascended Weapons. Oh you can slowly grind for it across many months.... Yea slowly grind for one weapon, in a game which you change weapons, weapon specs and skins for fun. End Game Content as it's finest (worst).

Edited by Gaden Phoenix, 05 December 2016 - 04:49 AM.

[Cy Mitchell]

MechWarrior5152251, on 05 December 2016 - 03:54 AM, said:

PGI is shooting themselves in the foot. All this will do is reduce the number of mechs people use. They won't buy new mechs because they won't want to grind 3 new variants. People will just play their favorite 3 or 4 mechs.

There will be no more requirement to grind 3 variants. How that affects PGI's 3 Mech sales model is anyone's guess at this point.

[NeoCodex]

Oh wow, how could I fail math with 75 times 10.000 into 75.000... Yeah... 750.000 is way too much for a single mech mastery... That's just absurd.


If they don't change the numbers, I would at least expect that the quirk benefits get exponentaly decreased, like for example you would get most of the important stuff including speed tweak with 75.000 xp and then start progressing toward module functionality like radar derp which would offset the 6 mil cbill cost.

But still, numbers are cranked up way too high, it was probably just a test build... hopefully....

[L3mming2]

what will happen if u own 2 variants of a mech? will the xp u have stockpiled on it be devided between the 2 ore not?

[Bud Crue]

In re all of the above.

All of this hand wringing will be avoided when PGI has a townhall where all of the intricate details of this plan will be discussed, and their vision and intentions for what they hope to achieve will be laid forth. Because PGI is all about keeping its customers well informed and excited about their product, I expect that to happen within the next week or so. In other news pigs have developed wings and are taking flight all over the world. More on this exciting news will be revealed at Mechcon 2017.

[Cy Mitchell]

Bud Crue, on 05 December 2016 - 05:20 AM, said:

In re all of the above.

All of this hand wringing will be avoided when PGI has a townhall where all of the intricate details of this plan will be discussed, and their vision and intentions for what they hope to achieve will be laid forth. Because PGI is all about keeping its customers well informed and excited about their product, I expect that to happen within the next week or so. In other news pigs have developed wings and are taking flight all over the world. More on this exciting news will be revealed at Mechcon 2017.

As a matter of fact, it was mentioned on a NGNG podcast that there would be a post Mech_Con Town Hall. At first, it was scheduled before Mech_Con but then it was decided to move it back so that the reveals at the event could be openly discussed.

[Greyhart]

Well at the least its an improvement over the current skill system.

I assume that they will have to roll the quirks into the tree for each mech. I expect things to be changed on a regular basis and there being much complaining like when there's any changes in quirks.

The grind may be higher but is a fully mastered mech going to be that much better than a non mastered one? Remember there will now be no double basics! the performance jump will be small with each unlock.

I suspect that 10,000 xp may be a place holder as a match nets about 1,000xp but if it isn't everyone is in the same boat so seems hardily worth the nashing of teeth until after there is some time to play with it.

Edited by Greyhart, 05 December 2016 - 05:32 AM.

[Bud Crue]

Rampage, on 05 December 2016 - 05:28 AM, said:

As a matter of fact, it was mentioned on a NGNG podcast that there would be a post Mech_Con Town Hall. At first, it was scheduled before Mech_Con but then it was decided to move it back so that the reveals at the event could be openly discussed.

Well that's good! I'm sure it will be full of details and great substantive discussion of specific features in the typical PGI effort to keep the customers informed. Undoubtedly they will make a significant effort to address the various concerns that have been raised since this announced. I for one can't wait for this exciting exchange of ideas!

[Gaden Phoenix]

Bud Crue, on 05 December 2016 - 05:34 AM, said:

Well that's good! I'm sure it will be full of details and great substantive discussion of specific features in the typical PGI effort to keep the customers informed. Undoubtedly they will make a significant effort to address the various concerns that have been raised since this announced. I for one can't wait for this exciting exchange of ideas!

Wait what Bud Crue being super positively excited and supportive... Really?

Also I present to you PGI's new Mech (just imagine it with JJs).

Edited by Gaden Phoenix, 05 December 2016 - 05:42 AM.

[Bud Crue]

Gaden Phoenix, on 05 December 2016 - 05:37 AM, said:

Wait what Bud Crue being super positively excited and supportive... Really?

Its amazing how sunny one's out look can be about this game when one decides to ignore all precedent of this developer's past conduct toward its community and even its own product.

-walks away singing "sunshine and lollipops"-

[EAP10]

All I can think of is my poor Direwhales... They're going to be so slow

[Lightfoot]

I don't think I have earned more than 350k on any mech. Maybe because I didn't have too earn more. But the other thing I would ask is: say I do load 750k into a mech and it's the new meta and everyone whines for it to be burned and come for it with their torches alight, will it then be nerfed and I am left with a steaming pile of 750k junk? That would not be right. Your reward for excellent mech construction and skilling is next month's nerf.

[DaZur]

NoiseCrypt, on 05 December 2016 - 01:19 AM, said:

He showcased a demo with some specific values. Then he said that it was done for all intents an purposes, and that it only needed testing.

So the question is what he means by testing.
1) software stability
2) game play impact

"he said that it was done for all intents an purpose"

I think folks are biasedly reading way too much into this to infer it's not open to revision...