196 replies to this topic

[Legionary Titus Pullo]

I can see why people are worried. But I'm torn im my opinion. First of all, if theres no more three mech rule, even if they TRIPLE the needed exp for master, it is essentially the same amount, without grinding 2 potentially unwanted chassis. Second, I dont see the point of owning so many mechs if you dont want to play them. Sure, they wont be tip top no more, but how many peoples mechs will be? Most people said only a few of their mechs (prob favs) will be masterable outright. So everyone will be the same at first. It'll be like back in the day when everyone is playing whatever to find out what works and what doesn't. The thrill of finding something amazing and new will be back.

On the other hand, long grinds of any kind are annoying when all you wanna do is stay level with the next guy. Especially during times when all you wanna do is pop in for a few matches, have a great time wreaking face, then go on with your day.

Maybe if your already mastered your mech, they should just put it at %75 done with the new system. At least itll be decent, but still give you a reason to dust off old mechs and see whats new and good with them.

[Deathlike]

Guys... my 1m GXP is gonna make a difference... right... right????

Then again, the 1m Mech XP on the ACH should be more than enough.... for the ACH.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Widowmaker1981, on 05 December 2016 - 09:25 AM, said:

CW isnt going to happen properly

Don't get me wrong, I agree, but the point is there needs to be some underlying purpose for matches that could be considered "end-game" whether it be a comp league, a planetary league, some sort of other outside play, etc. Making combat effectiveness a level of "end-game" will always be a bad way to go because it extends the divide between veterans and newer players.

Widowmaker1981, on 05 December 2016 - 09:25 AM, said:

in the interest of openness though, i will admit that when i used to play MMOs, i always preferred the korean grindy sort. I didnt like how in 'western' style (WoW, AoC, WAR etc) the leveling process was just a precurser to starting the game, and preferred that being a high level actually meant something.

Any time the word grind comes up, that implies no fun. So if I have to spend monotonous amounts of time leveling up the same mech, chances are I'm not having fun considering there are 350+ other mechs to be playing. Sorry but this idea that mechs should be harder to level up flies in the face of one of the major facets of this game and only encourages staleness.



Long story short, a proper end-game should be ranked mode and/or third party leagues that do what CW can't.

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 05 December 2016 - 10:29 AM.

[Kiyoshi Amaya]

Ok guys, so I've read through 7 pages of chatter about the skill trees and everyone being concerned about "mastering" their mechs. I think the term "mastering" is about to become redundant. From what I've worked out from all the info given about the new system, is that we'll actually be "optimising" our mechs.

What it basically looks like to me, is that all these skill points will be used by us to optimise the different trees for each mech, so that means that the quirks are still there but we get to put the points where we want them rather than having set fixed quirks that we had no say over.

It also seems the same for the module system too, though as Russ has said we'll still be keeping the consumable modules.

I'm actually intrigued to see this in action because given that Russ said we'll be able to respec our mechs at any time we wish, that means that we'll be able to optimise our mechs to suit our own style of play.

Feel free to correct me if I've misunderstood anything here.

[Y E O N N E]

NoiseCrypt, on 05 December 2016 - 09:25 AM, said:

Or he said the exact opposite of the thing that you think he said.
He said "Done" and he said "needs QA testing".

To me that sounds like they are testing software stability and not game play impact.

And then on Twitter last night, he answered tweets from Pariah Devalis and Wintersdark about balancing bad 'Mechs with the new system, saying "that's what the next month is for."

I checked the source. If youcan't be arsed to check the source, kindly shut up to limit the FUD so we can have productive discussions. This whole thread is based on a false premise designed to ruffle feathers because Prosperity Park feels like trolling bittervets and all of you crackerjacks fell for it.

[WarHippy]

Prosperity Park, on 04 December 2016 - 06:29 PM, said:

Yup, PGI is releasing the new skill tree in its final form that will never be changed and the amount of points required to unlock the new nodes will always remain exactly how they are now. It will never change. It is final.


Oh, wait...

Prosperity Park, on 04 December 2016 - 06:29 PM, said:

Maybe it can be changed? Maybe we should calm down and not scream and shout like kindergarteners about millions of XP. Maybe we should provide feedback after we actually begin using the system.

I would hope so. In fact I think a lot of people hope so which is why you see a lot of people voicing concerns. As with anything some are more emotional than others, some are more eloquent than others, and some are condescending jerks.

Prosperity Park, on 04 December 2016 - 06:29 PM, said:

And this is a very radical concept: maybe a single MechWarrior pilot is not meant to be the absolute master of over 300 different kinds of vehicles...

This isn't a RPG. This is essentially a FPS with mechs, and if we are truly not meant to master all of the mechs we have then PGI has made a colossal mistake in game design.

Prosperity Park, on 04 December 2016 - 06:29 PM, said:

And another thing that I feel must be pointed out: if you consider your bounty of Mechs to have been "Mastered" already, then you're basically endorsing the old skill tree.

How so? People may not have liked the old skill tree, but that is what we had, and that is what people invested a great deal of time and money into. That investment should not be ignored or marginalized just because we finally have a new skill tree.

[s0da72]

I'm not a fan of the current skills system. But im not seeing what is so great about this new system. Any leveling system that provides an advantage against other players simply becuase they played longer seems counter productive in a game dedicated to PvP play. This new system doesn't change that. It's just a more complicated version of it. At least the current system doesn't impact game play as much since mechs can be mastered in a short period of time. We don't have the numbers yet on how long the new system will take to master a mech, but I think it is safe to say that it will take longer.

Also doing away with the modules is disappointing. Today if I want to change a mech's build from 'long range' to 'short range brawler' I'm going to have to pay to reset my skills. Otherwise I'm at a disadvantage in PvP play. Today as long as I own the weapons and modules already I don't have to pay anything extra, plus I can share those modules with all my mechs even mech's that are not mastered. If they wanted us to pay more for doing things in the mech bay they simply could have added a C-Bill cost for adding and removing modules from mechs.

I rather they not have any skills, leave that kind of stuff for PvE where it belongs.

Edited by s0da72, 05 December 2016 - 11:19 AM.

[Ragnahawk]

Yes finally a reason to spend my 8 million experience in my hunchback 4P.

[Johnny Z]

They don't want Battletech hard liners running around naked in their parking lot screaming "Ive been playing BT since the 80's", so Im sure there will be some testing and balance passes.

Edited by Johnny Z, 05 December 2016 - 11:46 AM.

[Grimlock Magnus]

Wait... I just did some math...

I have between 500 and 550 million in modules (current market buy price). I'm getting all of that refunded...? Yet at the same time I'm guessing I have about 5 million XP between all my mechs and skills (rough guesstimate). Which masters all of 6 mechs completely in the new system...?

Mind you I'm all for change and the skill system does look interesting... but I'll also end up wit 550+ million C-bills, no clue what to spend that on, and enough legacy XP to maybe fully master about 6 mechs. Though granted I probably won't need all the weapons mods, so lets say 12 mechs...?

Wut...

PS: Is there a thread showing the new skill tree system somewhere?

Edited by Grimlock Magnus, 05 December 2016 - 02:29 PM.

[Kael Posavatz]

The XP grind if each node is flat-rated is...hellacious.

That said, if the respecialization is monetized (and pretty much all the other games with a similar system such as WoW or STO monetize theirs), this is going to strongly penalize those players who use OmniMechs, if not outright invalidate the use of Omni's entirely. Instead of versatile and customizable platforms, they will become locked into very narrow configurations at which point they might as well be less customizable battlemechs.

And with Russ stating repeatedly that he expects to see the Mad Cat Mk II in 2017, we're looking at a timeskip to mid-3060s which means Inner Sphere Omnis. For that matter the Raptor is already within the current time period that PGI pulls from.

Edited by Kael Posavatz, 05 December 2016 - 02:51 PM.

[Chuanhao]

Our mechs have been mastered with a basic set of characteristics. These characteristics should probably be "gotten" with the same number of XP. Where the innovation comes in will be mech and weapon module equivalents.

Currently, no one can mount more than two, so no one should expect to actually go all the way and master every possible weapon for a mech. If one chooses to do so, then one shouldn't feel salty.

Where the real pain seems to come in is the need to master for example range level 1 for LRMs 5,10,15, and 20, and cool down, before proceeding to range level 2 for LRMs 5 10 15 20. And so on, so previously, we had just. Simple choice to go direct and unlock that range module for a specific weapon, but now have to unlock it piece wise.

And we get to swop it around mechs. The trade off is that we HAD modules to find and swop them. The new system is permanent to a specific chassis. U gain the ability forever.

So that is the trade off. Permanent abilities vs shopping possibilities but limited to two/three modules. That means now our robots can become even more super Saiyan. I.e. The potential is greater for each mech, and or course it takes more effort to reach the, or even match what was previously achievable.

It is actually good that this reboot forces me now to go back to play that cataphract 3D that I have not touched for two years. The impact of always a new poke mech to catch and train every month.

It is a good thing, if u think about it, just that rare candy is going to be so hard to come by, or rather impossible to get.

[L3mming2]

Johnny Z, on 05 December 2016 - 11:30 AM, said:

They don't want Battletech hard liners running around naked in their parking lot screaming "Ive been playing BT since the 80's", so Im sure there will be some testing and balance passes.

the funny thing about that is that i have no problem what so ever beliving u guys would go and do that XD

[L1f3H4ck]

Is it ok to not really care? It's a new system, new strategies to try out, a new meta to adjust to and that's great. Will it take longer to grind? Try WoT and come back when you're sick of it. Does it look a lot like a sphere grid from FFX? Hell Yeah, and I'm loving it already.

Some mechs might suffer but I'll adjust. Look, even the Victors and 'Phracts have stopped crying. Ok, they've progressed to occasionally sobbing, but you get my drift, right?

[Sarsaparilla Kid]

Chuanhao, on 05 December 2016 - 03:12 PM, said:

---

Realize that not only modules, but mech quirks, and all the previous skills you had in the old skill tree will now be choices in the new skill paths, so you start with nothing and have to regain it all back, but with the new skill points limited to 75 per mech and the way the new skill paths unlock, it may or may not be possible to gain back exactly what you had before, it may end up with a different flavor altogether. Yes, it might be good to have new flavors, but man, will it ever be a grind with the numerical values they've shown us so far.

[Angel of Annihilation]

Prosperity Park, on 04 December 2016 - 06:29 PM, said:

Yup, PGI is releasing the new skill tree in its final form that will never be changed and the amount of points required to unlock the new nodes will always remain exactly how they are now. It will never change. It is final.


Oh, wait...


Maybe it can be changed? Maybe we should calm down and not scream and shout like kindergarteners about millions of XP. Maybe we should provide feedback after we actually begin using the system.

And this is a very radical concept: maybe a single MechWarrior pilot is not meant to be the absolute master of over 300 different kinds of vehicles...

And another thing that I feel must be pointed out: if you consider your bounty of Mechs to have been "Mastered" already, then you're basically endorsing the old skill tree.

You don't understand how this works.

IF NO ONE COMPLAINS PGI THINKS THINGS ARE FINE AND DOESN'T MAKE CHANGES.

Seriously, negative feedback is still positive feedback because it lets the devs know how players feel about a change. If people react positively, it is a good change. Negative reaction, well maybe you want to re-think things. That is the entire point of giving feedback and it is absolutely necessary to game development.

Edited by Viktor Drake, 05 December 2016 - 04:27 PM.

[Lupus Aurelius]

Viktor Drake, on 05 December 2016 - 04:27 PM, said:

You don't understand how this works.

IF NO ONE COMPLAINS PGI THINKS THINGS ARE FINE AND DOESN'T MAKE CHANGES.

Seriously, negative feedback is still positive feedback because it lets the devs know how players feel about a change. If people react positively, it is a good change. Negative reaction, well maybe you want to re-think things. That is the entire point of giving feedback and it is absolutely necessary to game development.

OMG, you obviously do not know PGI...

See, those that give any negative statement about anything PGI does are " a vocal minority that live on an island". They have NO RESPECT for our opinions, even when given math and data, they do not even read the forums nor play the game. They have stated such outright, that's not an "opinion" on my part.

That being said, all XP refunded should be refunded as GXP , 1 GXP to 1 XP, so that players can decide where they want to apply it not based on mechs that they bought 4 years ago which for whatever reasons, they no longer use.

Edited by Lupus Aurelius, 05 December 2016 - 04:48 PM.

[Felicitatem Parco]

UPDATE - Hey, everyone... Russ said on Twitter that the values in the previews are just placeholders, and that the time to Master your Mechs (75 nodes) will be similar in the new system to the old system.

Wow, I guess I was wrong... it's not in final form yet! Who would have guessed...?

[Kael Posavatz]

So...are we talking ~60-k or 180-k because we are no longer levelling 3?

I think I would be okay with the latter. It's the lack of info about whether the ReSpec will be monetized or not that is really bothering me.

[Felicitatem Parco]

Kael Posavatz, on 06 December 2016 - 02:56 PM, said:

So...are we talking ~60-k or 180-k because we are no longer levelling 3?

I think I would be okay with the latter. It's the lack of info about whether the ReSpec will be monetized or not that is really bothering me.

Tbe only "monetizing" will come from when you start spec'ing under the new system, and you then later want to unspec and respec. You will need MC to get your nodes replenished if you want to re-respec.

When the new system drops, you get all your XP/GXP back and full C-Bill refunds on all affected modules.

Edited by Prosperity Park, 06 December 2016 - 03:18 PM.