46 replies to this topic

[Johnny Z]

AphexTwin11, on 05 December 2016 - 08:37 AM, said:

The modules included in the early adopter packages were definitely a big incentive for me to purchase a mech pack. I have not purchased a mech pack since they took out the modules. Granted, this held a little more weight prior to the skill tree announcement.

The early-adopted rewards are what made the difference, at least to me, between purchasing and not purchasing. And why shouldn't it? If you're patient enough, you can get any mech sold via mech pack for C-bills anyway. The early adopter rewards eliminated hours of grinding - so sure, why not spend the $20 for a new shiny toy and a bunch of time(frustration) saving cbills, modules, and items? I don't care for any mechs (not yet released) enough to buy them with real money stand-alone, and for me there needed to be an extra incentive to push me to do it, which in many cases, were the modules.

What if I told you the new skill tree was done when they took modules out of mech packs.

Edited by Johnny Z, 05 December 2016 - 09:05 AM.

[Wintersdark]

Johnny Z, on 05 December 2016 - 09:05 AM, said:

What if I told you the new skill tree was done when they took modules out of mech packs.

Well, at least in progress/design. I'd assume they took the modules out of the mech packs when they decided that they'd be removing modules overall.

[Felbombling]

The first thing Russ clarified before he went into any detail on the new skill trees was the pending refund. They are not oblivious to the initial investment made by the players, so I cannot see them ignoring real cash investment when it comes to said refund.

As to the changes, I welcome them with open arms. No more going to the Mech Lab searching for the missing modules. Thinking back on all the time I wasted searching for modules, removing them, saving the Mech... then going to the Mech I wanted them on... placing them... saving the Mech. Good grief... this system will be ten times better for that reason alone.

[Wintersdark]

StaggerCheck, on 05 December 2016 - 09:14 AM, said:

The first thing Russ clarified before he went into any detail on the new skill trees was the pending refund. They are not oblivious to the initial investment made by the players, so I cannot see them ignoring real cash investment when it comes to said refund.

As to the changes, I welcome them with open arms. No more going to the Mech Lab searching for the missing modules. Thinking back on all the time I wasted searching for modules, removing them, saving the Mech... then going to the Mech I wanted them on... placing them... saving the Mech. Good grief... this system will be ten times better for that reason alone.

Well, one could argue that the new system is like having modules that can't be removed from mechs, but yeah.

Depends on what the skill cost is, I suppose.

Seriously, though, I won't miss modules. I'm really happy to see the whole module system going away. Skill up a mech and call it a day. I hope respec costs (there is a cost, I'd assume) are reasonable, though.

[Felbombling]

Wintersdark, on 05 December 2016 - 09:17 AM, said:

Well, one could argue that the new system is like having modules that can't be removed from mechs, but yeah.

Depends on what the skill cost is, I suppose.

Seriously, though, I won't miss modules. I'm really happy to see the whole module system going away. Skill up a mech and call it a day. I hope respec costs (there is a cost, I'd assume) are reasonable, though.

That, and no more three Mechs to Master system. This is a game mechanic some players were vehemently opposed to finally being wiped out. It will be interesting to see how the price structure changes, if at all. The Mechs are already priced nicely in bundles compared to other games where a single unit is worked upon. I hope prices don't go up, given that they've taken away the necessity of 2/3 of the Mech content. In short, I don't want to see prices like these in the game...

Edited by StaggerCheck, 05 December 2016 - 09:25 AM.

[Wintersdark]

Yeah, I'd hate to see a pricing change, too. I don't think that's really feasible though given the smaller player base.


No more 3 mechs to master is amazing. It's VERY good for new players and particularly for f2p players, being able to get "up to par" faster. Want to get a new player involved in faction play? Now he's just got to skill up 4 mechs instead of 12.

I do t really benefit from the changes much, but I think they're really good for the game, at least pending review of the actual costs.

[Appogee]

It doesn't bother me. I have had plenty of use from those modules.

Wintersdark, on 05 December 2016 - 09:53 AM, said:

It's VERY good for new players and particularly for f2p players, being able to get "up to par" faster.

Which part of needing 12 times the XP to fully level a single Mech do you think will be faster...?

Edited by Appogee, 05 December 2016 - 09:57 AM.

[Wintersdark]

Appogee, on 05 December 2016 - 09:56 AM, said:

It doesn't bother me. I have had plenty of use from those modules.


Which part of needing 12 times the XP to fully level a single Mech do you think will be faster...?

where do you get 12 times?

I certainly haven't seen any hard numbers.

But compare to getting Elite on 3 mechs to master one, then XP to unlock modules, and cbills to buy those modules and 3 mechs.

[TWIAFU]

RussianWolf, on 05 December 2016 - 08:18 AM, said:

how do you feel about PGI taking those away now?

first, your a dumb *** if you bought mech packs JUST for modules.

second, "taking them away" implies there is no 'refund' for module purchases, we all know that is false.

third, bored and just want to spread misinformation and stir up sh*t?

[Appogee]

Wintersdark, on 05 December 2016 - 10:01 AM, said:

where do you get 12 times?

Math based on the screenshots shown at the Con known as Mech.

750,000 XP to unlock 75 skills at 10,000XP each.

And that assumes there's not an escalating cost of unlocking skills... which there almost certainly will be,

Wintersdark, on 05 December 2016 - 10:01 AM, said:

But compare to getting Elite on 3 mechs to master one, then XP to unlock modules, and cbills to buy those modules and 3 mechs.

If we assume the lower requirement of 750,000, it will requires roughly 3x more to XP to unlock one Mech under the new system than it did to Master one, with modules, under the old system.

Not faster. Much slower.

Please Grind Indefinitely.

[Tordin]

I dont care AT ALL. I almost never use crutch-modules, unless for some experimentation in the testing grounds and I did go public with some IS uac 5 modules for my Enforcer 5p a few mathces.
If you mean consumable "modules" then sometimes. Gotta somehow use up all those hundreds of airstrikes and artillerys I cant sell..

Early adopter bonuses are after all, just bonuses. If you mainly go after those, theres something wrong somewhere. Exception is an added varaint/ config of a another mech from that specific package. Glad they did that for at least the MAD IIc.

True pilots can adapt in piloting any mechs, without modules and similar crutches. Quirks are another thing, however some mechs do need them to survive the meta whoring so thats an understandable excuse.

Edited by Tordin, 05 December 2016 - 10:21 AM.

[TKSax]

Wintersdark, on 05 December 2016 - 09:03 AM, said:

That's just silly. Seriously, man, they're not going to take away modules that came from packs and not refund them. The whole notion is ridiculous.




Help me out here. Are you seriously afraid PGI is going to take away things you bought and not give you anything in return? Really? Of course they're going to refund those modules - it'll almost certainly be the module's cbill value, though you didn't pay cbills for them, because that's just easier than trying to figure out some other value for them. But you'll definitely be refunded for them.

That's next order paranoia there, dude.

I have no Paranoia dude, you are making this a bigger deal than I am. I am simply asking the questions and have tweeted Russ about. There is no paranoia, you are making assumptions of my intent.

Russ did say they would be refunding the modules purchased in game. PGI sometimes tends to forget things, like the fact that they have given away modules in mech packs and in Weekend Challenges. I can see them no refunding the ones got in challenge because essentially they are free, but I do not want them to forget about the modules that were part of mech packs that is all.

[Tordin]

StaggerCheck, on 05 December 2016 - 09:24 AM, said:

That, and no more three Mechs to Master system. This is a game mechanic some players were vehemently opposed to finally being wiped out. It will be interesting to see how the price structure changes, if at all. The Mechs are already priced nicely in bundles compared to other games where a single unit is worked upon. I hope prices don't go up, given that they've taken away the necessity of 2/3 of the Mech content. In short, I don't want to see prices like these in the game...

Thats some insane cash grabbing, RIGHT THERE! If PGI goes that pricing path, yeah I dont need to say more...

Edited by Tordin, 05 December 2016 - 10:32 AM.

[Felicitatem Parco]

RussianWolf, on 05 December 2016 - 08:18 AM, said:

how do you feel about PGI taking those away now?

Full refunds, I am happy. They are converting my modules into fluid cash. That's better than the modules, themselves.

Stop whining about PGI giving full refunds on used equipment.

Edited by Prosperity Park, 05 December 2016 - 10:33 AM.

[Wintersdark]

TKSax, on 05 December 2016 - 10:23 AM, said:

I have no Paranoia dude, you are making this a bigger deal than I am. I am simply asking the questions and have tweeted Russ about. There is no paranoia, you are making assumptions of my intent.

Russ did say they would be refunding the modules purchased in game. PGI sometimes tends to forget things, like the fact that they have given away modules in mech packs and in Weekend Challenges. I can see them no refunding the ones got in challenge because essentially they are free, but I do not want them to forget about the modules that were part of mech packs that is all.

They'd refund ones got in challenges too, those were earned, every both as much as ones bought with cbills.

The point I'm making here is that the simplest method is removing the items from player inventory and refunding cbills, as it'll be a bulk database change. They're not going to know where, for example, challenge reward modules came from, or care. Some old modules (clan wave 1 iirc) are labeled differently, but otherwise modules are modules. You can sell all the modules you've won for cbills right now, after all - taking them away and not giving players anything would be egregiously wrong.

So obviously so, given Russ was right up front about refunding stuff, that there's no reason to suspect that.

PGI has done a lot of questionable things, but they don't outright screw people.

[RussianWolf]

Wintersdark, on 05 December 2016 - 12:03 PM, said:

They'd refund ones got in challenges too, those were earned, every both as much as ones bought with cbills.

The point I'm making here is that the simplest method is removing the items from player inventory and refunding cbills, as it'll be a bulk database change. They're not going to know where, for example, challenge reward modules came from, or care. Some old modules (clan wave 1 iirc) are labeled differently, but otherwise modules are modules. You can sell all the modules you've won for cbills right now, after all - taking them away and not giving players anything would be egregiously wrong.

So obviously so, given Russ was right up front about refunding stuff, that there's no reason to suspect that.

PGI has done a lot of questionable things, but they don't outright screw people.

my point is that if I pay MC or Cash for something, cbills won't be a good way to refund. I can make cbills easily enough.

If they were to say, pull all the Hero mechs and refund people cbills and you had spent MC/cash on them, would you be happy?

[Wintersdark]

RussianWolf, on 05 December 2016 - 12:29 PM, said:

my point is that if I pay MC or Cash for something, cbills won't be a good way to refund. I can make cbills easily enough.

If they were to say, pull all the Hero mechs and refund people cbills and you had spent MC/cash on them, would you be happy?

Hero mechs are quite different.

Modules where included as a bonus, but where never for sale for cash or MC - nobody bought modules with MC.

And while the inclusion of them in a mech pack may have been the deciding factor for buying that mech pack, the modules that where included are EXACTLY the same as ones sold via cbills, and as such they have an exact cbill value. If they'd just given you an extra 3/6 million cbills with your mech pack instead of the modules the result would have been exactly the same.

On the other hand, your hero mech analogy falls down completely. They're not available via cbills at all, have no direct cbill value. And just taking hero mechs away isn't even remotely similar: they're taking modules away, refunding their value, AND YOU CAN BUY THEM ANEW VIA SKILLS. The modules still exist, but in another form.

Now, I bought my Kodiak's for cash. If they took the KDK-3 away from me now, gave me it's value in cbills, and I could buy it again with those cbills I wouldn't care. Hell, if they took my Yen Lo Wang away, refunded me in cbills,. Then sold the YLW as a cbill mech for that value so I could buy it again and not be losing anything? That is more what's happening.

Of course, in this circumstance, not only can you rebut your module as a skill, but you can change your mind and do something else with those cbills entirely if you wish.. As such, you gain, you don't lose.

[RussianWolf]

Wintersdark, on 05 December 2016 - 12:41 PM, said:

Hero mechs are quite different.

Modules where included as a bonus, but where never for sale for cash or MC - nobody bought modules with MC.

And while the inclusion of them in a mech pack may have been the deciding factor for buying that mech pack, the modules that where included are EXACTLY the same as ones sold via cbills, and as such they have an exact cbill value. If they'd just given you an extra 3/6 million cbills with your mech pack instead of the modules the result would have been exactly the same.

except that its cbills AND XP that's needed to replace it. Will they refund enough to get up to that module ability on one mech?

If not, then they have rescinded on a bonus that may or may not have been a deciding factor. I know when I was buying packs I was buying in for the bonuses. The mechs just shortened the grind which wasn't a problem for me.

[Wintersdark]

RussianWolf, on 05 December 2016 - 12:58 PM, said:

except that its cbills AND XP that's needed to replace it. Will they refund enough to get up to that module ability on one mech?

If not, then they have rescinded on a bonus that may or may not have been a deciding factor. I know when I was buying packs I was buying in for the bonuses. The mechs just shortened the grind which wasn't a problem for me.

Presumably. We don't have final numbers yet though.

Keep in mind those modules shortened the grind less than the mechs did - modules are cheaper than mechs and available for cbills from the start. Buying a module with real money is indistinguishable from buying cbills with said money then buying a module with those cbills.

Modules are not and have not been a MC thing, and they do have a direct cbill value.

[AnimosityMonk]

Just a few thoughts on module refunds. We all have LTD modules that gave better bonuses than there non-LTD versions. Specifically the Speed Retention, Shock Absorbance, Enhanced Narc and AMS Overload. Will we get a bigger refund for those modules? Will we be given a DETAILED invoice on our refunded modules? I have 69 mechs. Roughly 95% of them have ALL the module slots filled. Just doing a "off the top" calculation I have roughly 1 Billion C-bills coming to me. How will I know that I was refunded for everything given PGI poor track record when it comes to customer service.

Also for those of us who have put in the time and effort to buy 3 mechs, basic, elite and master them, I for one am going to ******* pissed if after the "Great Refundening" I end up not being able to 75pt master everything that is already currently mastered. If the "GR" is not a 1 to 1 conversion, if all of us who have played this game for years are not made whole by the "GR", then PGI is going to have a horde of angry people to deal with.