141 replies to this topic

[XxXAbsolutZeroXxX]

MischiefSC, on 05 December 2016 - 08:34 PM, said:

The population is small because factions and worlds mean nothing, there's no logistics of any sort to add depth or purpose to the above and a long list of other issues.

We had thousands in FW 1/2. At one point Davion had over 100 players each on Marik, Liao and Kurita borders at the same time in primetime and still had some teams playing the Clans.

People were excited to be part of a faction trying to take over the universe, we made alliances and made strategies and politics and trash talked our enemies.

Then.... we started to run into the issue of how pointless the dots were, that being a loyalist was in all ways inferior to being a merc and the imbalances between IS and Clan tech. Then the issues with how the ghost drop mechanics worked (weaponized boredom!) and team v pugs. The things we *should* have been able to do like share borders with allies to reinforce and dynamically adjust faction populations to deal with imbalances, to have faction membership really a meaningful choice, that mercs should be *hired* and hired for a specific strategic goal and not just these huge unit population boosts hopping around at will to shuffle the map....

so people left. Then LT showed up and people left *in droves* and PGI ignored it. That's the critical piece; we had some issues but it was still fixable in 2.0. There was still hope, there were people who wanted to come back. If we'd gotten this new QP maps and stuff for 3.0 and no LT? If we'd gotten dynamic alliances you vote for (so for example Liao votes to ally with Kurita then Liao and Kurita pilots can all drop on each others fronts mixed) you'd have a dynamic population that can shrink or grow, contract or focus as needed to deal with the ebb and flow of players and you'd have had excitement and growth.

This? This is an embrace of failure. Ignoring the huge issues created by 3.0 for so long got a lot of people to give up and now? The elimination of faction relevance entirely is blowing off the bulk of players that FW should appeal to and giving nothing really to draw anyone else in. The pugs who come? They're going to get stomped repeatedly and quit. Units? I can already tell you being in contact with most the units who still play.... most are probably going Clans. With factions gone why not play with the better mechs/tech? Especially with quirk removal coming in a month or so. You'd be an idiot to stay IS. With faction membership being even more irrelevant than it was before why not?

The bucket change is the embrace of failure. Just try to keep the declining few finding matches while giving nothing substantial to get new people playing.

This was a good post.

AnimeFreak40K, on 05 December 2016 - 08:38 PM, said:

The primary issue is that there is are fundamental differences between the different sorts of players who want to play FW...and some (though not all) are mutually exclusive to each other.

For example, there are people who want to play FW so they and their unit can control/move the map around. They like the space-nerd politics that go along with their giant stompy robots. These guys, whether as a unit or as casuals, play for fun and don't really care beyond that. This crowd runs directly counter to the competitive guys. These guys play to win, and winning is all they care about. Drop, take the objective ASAP, repeat until the planet is theirs because success is measured by tagged planets.

These two types of players are mutually exclusive to each other because while both groups want to win, one group doesn't care about spawn-camping or gen-rushing...while the other tend to avoid such tactics.

You have folks that don't care about the space-nerd politics or the meta-tryhards, but they do want to drop with their friends/unit/faction...then you have guys that just want to play. They don't want to join a unit or faction, they just want to play giant stompy robots in something other than just 12v12 TDM. These two are also mutually exclusive, because one requires teamwork and prefers to play vs. other units, and the other rejects the idea of doing exactly that and are more at home in QP... but they're bored of QP or want something different (even if it's just the rewards)

To be clear, these lines of division aren't definitive, nor are they the only sorts of people that want to play FW... but their mindsets do make things mutually exclusive to each other.

I mean, if things aren't hard-core comp, you alienate that group...but if they are, then you alienate the casuals. If things aren't team-oriented and focused, you alienate those guys... but if there is too much "Teamwork OP", then the casuals are pushed out. And keeping things separated isn't the answer.

I watched units/groups poke fun at the casuals and pretty much want the casuals and solos out. Feeling was mutual; solos hated facing off against groups/units. But the fact of the matter is that the population of this game can't support such division. It never could

...so at the end of it, there is no real solution for FW that will satisfy enough people to make a real difference.

And this one was good also.

Plz dont bury relevent and intelligent posts with your one liner **** posting.

[Johnny Z]

I Zeratul I, on 05 December 2016 - 10:03 PM, said:

This was a good post.



And this one was good also.

Plz dont bury relevent and intelligent posts with your one liner **** posting.

I don't think that is intelligent at all. On the contrary its made up nonsense. Think every guild wants comp or teamwork OP? I don't think so. Some just want to be casual to. That entire post you called intelligent is nonsense.

Think casual player not in a guild don't want to work as a team, or cant?

Like I said, a bunch of nonsense.

If he hadn't of included "mutually exclusive" and alluded to that so often it may well be an intelligent reply.

Bottom line, guild/units are player made content. Players shouldnt want games to force players into guilds or even push them in.

Edited by Johnny Z, 05 December 2016 - 10:18 PM.

[BLOOD WOLF]

0bsidion, on 05 December 2016 - 12:35 PM, said:

Good luck getting much of anyone not to be negative at this point. PGI has worked so hard to earn the negativity, it'd be a shame not to give it to them in spades every chance we get

So I guess mechcon, FW 4.1, Solaris, New game mod. All of that was to work towards earning negativity points.......Here I thought you were a fair person,

[XxXAbsolutZeroXxX]

Johnny Z, on 05 December 2016 - 10:06 PM, said:

I don't think that is intelligent at all. On the contrary its made up nonsense. Think every guild wants comp or teamwork OP? I don't think so. Some just want to be casual to. That entire post you called intelligent is nonsense.

Think casual player not in a guild don't want to work as a team, or cant?

Like I said, a bunch of nonsense.

If he hadn't of included "mutually exclusive" and alluded to that so often it may well be an intelligent reply.

Nothing in that post says anything about everyone wanting the same thing.

The point is many in the community *demand* game changes that make circumstances worse for everyone.

The majority here consistently call for the same generic & unimaginative bad ideas due to them being too lazy and entitled to consider details and think about what is best for this game's player base in a legit sense.

It shouldn't be a surprise that generic and unimaginative people *demand* game changes that make this game more generic and *surprise* unimaginative.

Too many blame PGI for trying to appease the demands of this game's player base.

[Johnny Z]

I Zeratul I, on 05 December 2016 - 10:15 PM, said:

Nothing in that post says anything about everyone wanting the same thing.

The point is many in the community *demand* game changes that make circumstances worse for everyone.

The majority here consistently call for the same generic & unimaginative bad ideas due to them being too lazy and entitled to consider details and think about what is best for this game's player base in a legit sense.

It shouldn't be a surprise that generic and unimaginative people *demand* game changes that make this game more generic and *surprise* unimaginative.

Too many blame PGI for trying to appease the demands of this game's player base.

Ok totally right. But not the same subject. But totally right.

If they make a good game then if some players want to form units and there are goals that units and other players can strive to achieve then its all good for everyone. Some wont be happy with that though. Very few luckily.

By the way I am actually on the side of units more than it appears. But not on the side of giant units crushing small units and regular players through any means neccessary out of games.

Edited by Johnny Z, 05 December 2016 - 10:27 PM.

[Johnny Z]

Carl Vickers, on 05 December 2016 - 10:02 PM, said:

Just out of interest Johnny, are you in a unit that is not of your own creation?

Nope and this games lack of units says a lot about a few things. Same goes for other games. I played Arch Age for a while a while back and it has one giant unit and one or two other big units and the giant unit and the other large, mostly alts units runs around beating everyone up. I think this game has similar problems and same with other games.

Edited by Johnny Z, 05 December 2016 - 10:31 PM.

[Carl Vickers]

Johnny Z, on 05 December 2016 - 10:29 PM, said:

Nope and this games lack of units says a lot about a few things. Same goes for other games.

The exact response I expected from what you write.

Thanks for the confirmation.

[Johnny Z]

Carl Vickers, on 05 December 2016 - 10:30 PM, said:

The exact response I expected from what you write.

Thanks for the confirmation.

I like to think of myself as solid and not shifty so ya, I am not full of surprises.

But like Machiavelli wrote, you can trust a thief more than an honest man because he will always steal. It really comes down to who he wrote "The Prince" for. (see an honest man may even steal if he is starving. There is a line of thought here....)

Edited by Johnny Z, 05 December 2016 - 10:41 PM.

[Carl Vickers]

Johnny Z, on 05 December 2016 - 10:31 PM, said:

I like to think of myself as solid and not shifty so ya, I am not full of surprises.

Full of something, thats for sure.

[Johnny Z]

Carl Vickers, on 05 December 2016 - 10:33 PM, said:

Full of something, thats for sure.

You got nothing to say on this subject, so your a troll.

[BLOOD WOLF]

Johnny Z, on 05 December 2016 - 10:35 PM, said:

You got nothing to say on this subject, so your a troll.

you just noticed that.

[Requiemking]

For those of you who assume I'm negative, I'm not. I'm just sick of seeing the same faction of people mindlessly droning on and on about a 90 ton failure of a knockoff and wording their posts like it's something everyone wants, when in reality the FailCat MK2.......was an epic fail.

Edited by Requiemking, 05 December 2016 - 11:59 PM.

[RestosIII]

'looks at the last page of posts'



Well, this thread is going places...

Requiemking, on 05 December 2016 - 11:58 PM, said:

For those of you who assume I'm negative, I'm not. I'm just sick of seeing the same faction of people mindlessly droning on and on about a 90 ton failure of a knockoff and wording their posts like it's something everyone wants, when in reality the FailCat MK2.......was an epic fail.

Oh lord. You have a bigger hard-on for keeping it from being praised than we do for wanting the damn thing, if your posts are any indication. We're going to continue asking for a mech we want as long as we want, because that's what this game is. A nostalgia slideshow that you can occasionally.battle in. I'm"eagerly" awaiting your reply telling us we're wrong for wanting it.

[Requiemking]

RestosIII, on 06 December 2016 - 12:05 AM, said:

Oh lord. You have a bigger hard-on for keeping it from being praised than we do for wanting the damn thing, if your posts are any indication. We're going to continue asking for a mech we want as long as we want, because that's what this game is. A nostalgia slideshow that you can occasionally.battle in. I'm"eagerly" awaiting your reply telling us we're wrong for wanting it.

I'm trying to remind you people that, for all intents and purposes, the Knockoff MK2 was an epic fail. Also, I'm sick of Imperius constantly saying the MK2 is something everyone wants, which, if his last demand thread is anything to go by, is very incorrect.

Edited by Requiemking, 06 December 2016 - 12:10 AM.

[RestosIII]

I really shouldn't do this, but here we go...

Requiemking, on 06 December 2016 - 12:09 AM, said:

I'm trying to remind you people that, for all intents and purposes, the Knockoff MK2 was an epic fail. Also, I'm sick of Imperius constantly saying the MK2 is something everyone wants, which, if his last demand thread is anything to go by, is very incorrect.

I've asked this a few times, and I've not gotten a response. He was it a failure? By what measure did it fail? If you're talking about the fact that the other Clans didn't snap it right up, that's easily explained with them honestly just not respecting Clan Diamond Shark+working on their own mechs they believed to be superior.

On the subject of.who wants what mechs, everyone acts to some degree that their favorites are the obvious choice. It's normal. Do I have any clue how many people want it? Nope! Do I really care? Sure, but I just know that there aren't that many people against it, and it's one of the few mechs I would gladly drop cash on currently.

[Requiemking]

RestosIII, on 06 December 2016 - 12:19 AM, said:

I really shouldn't do this, but here we go...



I've asked this a few times, and I've not gotten a response. He was it a failure? By what measure did it fail? If you're talking about the fact that the other Clans didn't snap it right up, that's easily explained with them honestly just not respecting Clan Diamond Shark+working on their own mechs they believed to be superior.

On the subject of.who wants what mechs, everyone acts to some degree that their favorites are the obvious choice. It's normal. Do I have any clue how many people want it? Nope! Do I really care? Sure, but I just know that there aren't that many people against it, and it's one of the few mechs I would gladly drop cash on currently.

Number 1- The Knockoff MK2 was a Battlemech. In TT this automatically rendered it to be inferior to the Timby.
Number 2- It is completely redundant. Everything the Knockoff can do we can already do with a Kodiak, a Direwolf, a Highlander IIC, or the upcoming Supernova.
Number 3- It has already been a star in a MW game. Granted, said game was part of a sequence of events that nearly destroyed the franchise, and the MK2's creation was a mistake, but still. There are a lot of mechs, not just Assaults, that deserve a place in the light more than that old nag.

I have my favourites that I would like to see in game, but I don't spout off my lines in such a way as to make it sound like everyone agrees with me when they don't. I also didn't embarrass myself in the same thread by talking about balancing matters that I clearly knew nothing about.

Edited by Requiemking, 06 December 2016 - 12:28 AM.

[RestosIII]

Requiemking, on 06 December 2016 - 12:27 AM, said:

Number 1- The Knockoff MK2 was a Battlemech. In TT this automatically rendered it to be inferior to the Timby.
Number 2- It is completely redundant. Everything the Knockoff can do we can already do with a Kodiak, a Direwolf, a Highlander IIC, or the upcoming Supernova.
Number 3- It has already been a star in a MW game. Granted, said game was part of a sequence of events that nearly destroyed the franchise, and the MK2's creation was a mistake, but still. There are a lot of mechs, not just Assaults, that deserve a place in the light more than that old nag.

I have my favourites that I would like to see in game, but I don't spout off my lines in such a way as to make it sound like everyone agrees with me when they don't. I also didn't embarrass myself in the same thread by talking about balancing matters that I clearly knew nothing about.

Alrighty then, gonna respond to this hopefully before I fall unconscious from meds.

#1. Clans were experimenting with BattleMech designs a good deal at the time, and I don't see it as a liability. In this game, it's a pro.

#2. Outdone by other mechs, eh? The Kodiak was a power creep monster 10 tons heavier than it, the Dire Wolf is slow as molasses, the Highlander IIC is just a lurm chassis as far as I'm concerned, and the Supernova is a good deal slower than the MK2.

#3. Because it featured prominently in a previous game, it shouldn't be added to this one? I didn't realize I was hurting anyone's feelings by daring to ask for a mech that was in a previous game, and not advocating for one of the more unknown mechs, like the Porcupine.

Finally, I'd love to know what your jab about either me or another pro MK2 player "embarrassing ourselves" in a balance thread is about. Because I'm sure I'll love this one, since it definitely has to do with us wanting a mech, and not some sort of grudge.

Anyways, asleep now, will respond to whatever you think up when I wake tomorrow, if this thread is still here.

[MischiefSC]

BLOOD WOLF, on 05 December 2016 - 10:06 PM, said:

So I guess mechcon, FW 4.1, Solaris, New game mod. All of that was to work towards earning negativity points.......Here I thought you were a fair person,

I like the Roughneck. I like it more than a lot of canon mechs. There is literally no good reason to **** on PGI for making mechs; what, do people think there's this alternate dimension where BT is real and FASA had this incredible machine that would send them into the BT universe to scout out the 'real mechs' for use? Do they think any true and serious work was put into mech design in the 3048+ TROs?

Mechs are designed by someone sitting down and making a mech. Mechs are memorable because they look cool and they look like they fit. Full stop.

QP maps with 4 respawns and still 15 minutes isn't a bad idea. It'll probably need some tweaking but it's something long overdue.

I'm willing to give the Skill Tree changes a theoretical chance - it's a big change that effects *everything* and it should be expected that it'll **** up some of it. I can see what they're trying to do with the concept and I'm happy to see where it goes, even if the here-to-there is still muddled. My big fear would be them doing what they did with the sensor upgrades: something ancillary (laser range) got panned so they ditched the good stuff with it (lock delays, sensor range modifiers by mech type/class, etc).

The FW move to 1 bukket though? Be honest; how many of the original bulk of Clan Wolf players will come back to be part of 'The Clans'? Who's going to care about the changes, beyond playing QP style with QP maps with respawns? When the newness wears off, then what?

Removing the factions from Faction Warfare ends FW. There's nothing in this to draw anyone back; just tidy up the closing of FW and migrating the content to QP.

[Bradigus]

The new FW/ CW patch will do very, VERY little to actually keep people interested in the game mode. In fact, I'm fairly certain it will drive them away after less than a week. Why? Because it will still be manual matchmaking where pick up gamers get every single one of their orifices violated by premade groups. Thought group queue was bad? Try it now with added respawn function! Quintuple the violation and time wasting!

Lack of meaningful content is only half of the problem why people stopped participating in faction warfare, and even then it was overwhelmingly the groups that quit at that point. Before that, it was the random players that left out of frustration of being stomped on game after game after game after game and getting less than you get in a quick play match as a reward to show for the experience.

Only now, with combining factions and reducing the number of planets people can play on, random players cannot even avoid premade groups by attacking or defending other planets. People don't want to be c-bill pinatas to a premade group. It kills interest in the game mode when you are instantly obliterated.

And the way "phase 4.1" is seemingly set up, it looks like it's built to fail once more.

[Lily from animove]

Shiroi Tsuki, on 05 December 2016 - 12:19 PM, said:

You can either have a White Teddy Bear, a Red Puppy, a Green Chicken or a Gray Kitty if you're a Clanner next to your name on the scoreboard

yeah but now we can alos introduce all clans because it's just a sticker then anymore.

Bradigus, on 06 December 2016 - 01:28 AM, said:

The new FW/ CW patch will do very, VERY little to actually keep people interested in the game mode. In fact, I'm fairly certain it will drive them away after less than a week. Why? Because it will still be manual matchmaking where pick up gamers get every single one of their orifices violated by premade groups. Thought group queue was bad? Try it now with added respawn function! Quintuple the violation and time wasting!

Lack of meaningful content is only half of the problem why people stopped participating in faction warfare, and even then it was overwhelmingly the groups that quit at that point. Before that, it was the random players that left out of frustration of being stomped on game after game after game after game and getting less than you get in a quick play match as a reward to show for the experience.

Only now, with combining factions and reducing the number of planets people can play on, random players cannot even avoid premade groups by attacking or defending other planets. People don't want to be c-bill pinatas to a premade group. It kills interest in the game mode when you are instantly obliterated.

And the way "phase 4.1" is seemingly set up, it looks like it's built to fail once more.

The majority of people is just badly informed. when I see hw much many whine and try to rio themselves a leg off just fo a few MC whenever there is an event, I wonder why they all do not look at FW where you can get a lot MC and other stuff in a PERMANENT event. if people would understand that they would play FW a lot more.

Edited by Lily from animove, 06 December 2016 - 02:24 AM.