43 replies to this topic

[naterist]

ok, so i see a lot of topics from experienced unit players that say the best way to enjoy faction play is through a unit or merc corp and pgi is of a similar mindset it would seem. theres nothing wrong with that mindset either in my opinion, this is an mmo, its about multiple people coming together ON TOP OF all the big stompy robot stuff. and thats the major downside to this game i think. its just a fact that if the game is supposed to be played through teamwork, then you should be able to easily find, create, organise and communicate with your team without having to rely on third party software to make the game work (lookin at teamspeak here)

so my question for pgi and the forum warriors is how should mechwarrior online imrove that, or does it need to improve that aspect of itself at all?

my solution is to add chatrooms in game were people can meet and form groups that has voicecomms, and an opton to go into mechbays with our friends and show them ingame reccommendations of a build out that the two could adjust in realtime together and have voicecomms doing it. it would help new players immensly with learning the game if the mentoring and coordination aspect was beefed up out of match. and itll especiallyt help FW because you can use it to sync drops in specific builds, and brief newbs beforehand on the different objectives and playstyles of FW compared to the qp que their used too. thats just my two cents. what do you guys think about it?

[BLOOD WOLF]

I think the Faction play chat tab is a great way for people in that faction to communicate, but that leaves mercs and solo's out. In that case there are already T.S people can use and get together. In any case there are so many avenues to get help from experienced players.

Also when it comes to in drops, experienced players need to be willing to help the newbies out.

[TWIAFU]

naterist, on 29 November 2016 - 10:05 AM, said:

its just a fact that if the game is supposed to be played through teamwork, then you should be able to easily find, create, organise and communicate with your team without having to rely on third party software to make the game work (lookin at teamspeak here)

so my question for pgi and the forum warriors is how should mechwarrior online imrove that, or does it need to improve that aspect of itself at all?

While back, pugs wanted certain features added to the game to put them on even footing with Units with all the added benefits that come with Units in the Unit queue. They asked for and got; Faction Chat, VOIP, and LFG. As anyone experienced in CW, or MWO at all, will tell you those features go widely unused. TBH, PGI could have just skipped most of them as they turned out to be a waste of time.

Only thing I can see to improve is an Invite to Group feature added to Faction Chat. Click on name, option to directly invite to group, bypass LFG.

For any non 12man Unit drop, forced enable of VOIP to hear orders at least.

CW being THE Teamwork dependent mode, there should be no way to opt out of being part of the team in CW.

[naterist]

i get were your coming from, but teamspeak just doesnt seem to cut it for me. i dont think teams should have to rely on it. thats just a personal thing though maybe. i just wish all people were consolidated in game, and not spread all over heaven and hell in the dozens of teamspeak servers.

[Deathlike]

TWIAFU, on 29 November 2016 - 10:33 AM, said:

While back, pugs wanted certain features added to the game to put them on even footing with Units with all the added benefits that come with Units in the Unit queue. They asked for and got; Faction Chat, VOIP, and LFG. As anyone experienced in CW, or MWO at all, will tell you those features go widely unused. TBH, PGI could have just skipped most of them as they turned out to be a waste of time.

Only thing I can see to improve is an Invite to Group feature added to Faction Chat. Click on name, option to directly invite to group, bypass LFG.

For any non 12man Unit drop, forced enable of VOIP to hear orders at least.

CW being THE Teamwork dependent mode, there should be no way to opt out of being part of the team in CW.

There's a couple of problems with your assessment though. Let me break down the 3 things brought up.

Faction chat is somewhat useful, but not really since it's limited to those in the faction. If you were a new player doing CW, you may or may not have declared to a faction. A global chat would be far more helpful here... and not to say there wouldn't be issues that would come from that, but faction chat is pretty limited in organizing.

VOIP is ONLY applicable for in-matches... whereas a Teamspeak Hub is a better proposition honestly... because you can do all the planning and stuff there. Basically, by the time you drop into a match, you are already under a handicap because you're not always going to be on the same page as other people... especially when you want to do organized stuff... preparation is required in advance... so in that sense... VOIP is ineffective as currently designed.

LFG is limited as well. It isn't broadcasted well... if at all. It doesn't announce to others "hey, we have a group being set up, please join us"... it's more like "here's our listing, take it or leave it" type of deal. LFG would be better utilized if the implementation was better (essentially, a global announcement of a group forming is what it SHOULD be, but isn't).

In essence, PGI's implementation of the listed issues are dissatisfactory... as it does not fully accomplish what it should for the purposes of CW. Pretty much every system has to be refined and improved... otherwise they will continue to be ineffective for what they are for.

[MischiefSC]

LFG gets used all the time. In game voip sometimes.

The game has always needed lobbys.

I hate to say this because it's going to sound harsher than it is intended but anyone unwilling to put the minuscule effort required to install TS is unlikely to be willing to put the vastly greater effort into playing as a team.

If someone objects "on principle", well okay. They're being stubborn and obstinate on something silly and gimping themselves and their would be teams.

There is nothing, absolutely nothing at all in the gameplay of MWO in any way, that's more fun than coordinating with a team. I often didn't even use a mic - just listen.

People will give you their TS, bookmark them. You'll build up circles of people you drop with.

The problem people have with pugging is essentially self-created. They want the teamplay aspect to fall into their outstretched hand. You need to put a tiny bit of effort in yourself.

Think of it like the barrier for entry into the fun part of the game. Are you willing to put a tiny bit of effort into effectively communicating with other olayrrs so they know it's worth the effort doing so with you.

[naterist]

MischiefSC, on 29 November 2016 - 12:26 PM, said:

LFG gets used all the time. In game voip sometimes.

The game has always needed lobbys.

I hate to say this because it's going to sound harsher than it is intended but anyone unwilling to put the minuscule effort required to install TS is unlikely to be willing to put the vastly greater effort into playing as a team.

If someone objects "on principle", well okay. They're being stubborn and obstinate on something silly and gimping themselves and their would be teams.

There is nothing, absolutely nothing at all in the gameplay of MWO in any way, that's more fun than coordinating with a team. I often didn't even use a mic - just listen.

People will give you their TS, bookmark them. You'll build up circles of people you drop with.

The problem people have with pugging is essentially self-created. They want the teamplay aspect to fall into their outstretched hand. You need to put a tiny bit of effort in yourself.

Think of it like the barrier for entry into the fun part of the game. Are you willing to put a tiny bit of effort into effectively communicating with other olayrrs so they know it's worth the effort doing so with you.

ok, im gonna stay calm cause you obviously havent met me in game. im in frr and i do have teamspeak. ive dropped with ek for a few weeks, was apart of the tyr battlegroup last weekend, and i normally am out there scouring the teamspeaks trying to get attack ques going in frr for pugs so that the clan invasion can be pushed back at least a smidge. thats my experience and were im coming from with my teamspeak concerns. as it is its too much effort for most people to do, and it really is a massive pain trying to get it started. people are spread all over multiple teamspeaks. most of those teamspeaks are ghost towns IS side. sometimes, people are playing but they just dont feel like having teamspeak on because theyre already sure theyre all empty, which makes it even emptier. so getting a group of players to get a group together is a real pain in the butt for people who just dont want to commit to a specific unit, but are totally open to working in a coordinated fashion, and in fact prefer to fight that way. which is why i say adding it to the game will help to get the people who are spread all over the place AND the PUGs who arent yet commited to the game to find people to help them break the learning curves (theres a curve for mwo, and another curve when you go into fw for the first time).

but im sorry, please dont say im too lazy. i do the best i can to keep the frr as a viable faction, solo merc though i am.

[Jman5]

I would add an in-game option to invite players to the group. When the game ends an invite will be waiting for them.

[MischiefSC]

I didn't say "you". Was directed at the majority of pugs who don't/won't use TS.

FRR has a great hub - just nobody is playing. I know EK, great players and have always been cool about bringing people into TS.

I've got countless TS in my bookmarks and have dropped with dozens of teams and almost all are eager and happy to being people in. This has always been the case.

I don't disagree that a lobby system, especially for letting you pull new people aside and helping them get up to speed would be great. Have always needed it.

However the need to use TS and coordinate isn't new. FE has been a thing for years and the pugs involved, with very few exceptions, can't say they don't know what's needed to play effectively.

It's not a new issue. People say "FW is too hard, favors groups". So they get shown how to group up, what builds and strats work and then say "but I don't want to do that, I want to bring my stock/sniper/LRM/whatever terribad build!"

So they lose. Again and again and again. This isn't new, these solutions are not a mystery and they were the case when the population was in the thousands.

I'm glad that's not you - however the low population isn't because you need TS to effectively work in a group most the time. It's not the lack of lobbys. It's a lack of depth, purpose, logistics, faction value, better mode design, etc etc etc.

All for a lobby system but that's not going to fix much.

[N0MAD]

A Lobby system may be to late now because no mater what you guys think MWO as a whole is on its death bed.
How long do you think MW2 would of been around without Kali or similar software? and MW2 was the smallest of the MW populations, how long would MW3-4 been around or how large would they of been without the Zone? how many of the numerous and to be honest Large Leagues would of survived and grown without the Zone?.
I can tell you places like the Zone is where i met alot of the guys i talk to, play with and become friends for decades, yes decades, some of the people i know and still talk to here on these very forums are people i met back on Kali.
It was suggested so long ago and so many times to PGI that chat/play lobbies were an essential community tool and examples like the zone were given thats its mind bogling that they simply could not see this or just failed to to act on it thru fear that there would be a huge anti PGI sentiment on said lobies, i say this because the only reason i can remember PGI giving for not introducing them was "difficult to moderate".
As for people not joining group or playing as a group,, its hard to meet and group with like minded people when the tools are not provided.
A couple months ago i loged into GW1, just for .dunno why...anyways my toon was in Kamadan, over ALL Chat a guys was asking about help with a build, after a few calls i decided to reply. After some conversation i asked if he wanted to come to our private TS as im a bad slow typer, he couldnt several reasons, so we continued to chat, i had to leave after a while but told him i be on in coming days if he needed more help, to cut story short over the next week we chated played found common ground and now we play GW, WoWs, Planes quite regularly and he comes on TS we he can.

Take that as you will.

[BLOOD WOLF]

N0MAD, on 29 November 2016 - 03:36 PM, said:

MWO as a whole is on its death bed.

[N0MAD]

What?
The man that has to spam the forums looking to find a game is in denial of this..
well just LoL..

[Carl Vickers]

N0MAD, on 29 November 2016 - 05:20 PM, said:

What?
The man that has to spam the forums looking to find a game is in denial of this..
well just LoL..

He is as bad at meme'ing as he is at playing the actual game.

[justcallme A S H]

naterist, on 29 November 2016 - 10:45 AM, said:

i get were your coming from, but teamspeak just doesnt seem to cut it for me. i dont think teams should have to rely on it. thats just a personal thing though maybe. i just wish all people were consolidated in game, and not spread all over heaven and hell in the dozens of teamspeak servers.

I rely on TS for pretty much every team online game I play... Not just MWO.

It always does it better than in-game functionality.

[Kael Posavatz]

naterist, on 29 November 2016 - 10:45 AM, said:

i get were your coming from, but teamspeak just doesnt seem to cut it for me. i dont think teams should have to rely on it.

As TWIAFU said, VOIP goes wildly unused.

Coordination kills whether its solo, group, scouting, or invasion queues.

Forget skills, Tiers, comp, meta, whatever... It is a group of player's ability that coordinate that determines whether they are a 'good team' or a 'bad team'.

Some quick maths, bear with me:

With a 250-ton drop deck you average 62.5 tons per mech which comes to 412 pts of armor (average 60- and 65-ton mechs) so you're looking at 1648 max armor. Most dropdecks will carry right around 1600.

If you're a good shot and the enemy face tanks you need to deal less than half of max-damage (including internals) per averaged kill. But most people get out of the habit of face-tanking pretty fast so the amount of damage-per-kill goes up by about 50%.

This is where coordination comes in. A team that's coordinated, whether its using VOIP or TeamSpeak, will usually average about 1200 damage per player. If they're up against a team that's bad (wholly uncoordinated), it'll be somewhat lower. Against a team that is also coordinated, it'll be higher, with the proviso that both sides duke it out to the bitter end. However, a VOIP-team that is particularly hammered on even one wave (not necessarily the first wave) will often break down into 'you guys suck' type comments and so turn from being a good (coordinated) team into a bad (uncoordinated) team.


My point here is, and sorry for the tangent, is that most solo-players do not use VOIP, or do not use it effectively. A VOIP group that is ably led is more than capable of going toe-to-toe with a TS group. But even when PUG teams use VOIP only rarely do they sustain the effort through the whole match.

Edited by Kael Posavatz, 29 November 2016 - 08:15 PM.

[justcallme A S H]

VOIP wildly unused? Every FP drop I've ever been in, if there are PUGs filling spots (1-7 spots) - VOIP is used every single time.

If a player is new, bringing unoptimised builds and doesn't really know the maps (like, you know, all new players) they are generally going to do 300-600dmg VOIP or no VOIP. That has absolutely zero bearing on dmg numbers because GOOD/EXPERIENCED players will do the bulk of the work.


Stop spouting absolute rubbish already.

[naterist]

sometimes i think the big units live in a bubble i swear to god.

[justcallme A S H]

I'm in a large unit, but, it's largely inactive... Because FP is, well, poo

That said I'm not unrealistic as to the issues with the game and what big units can cause issues wise... But the issues they create pale in comparison to ALL the other FP problems and fact is, without the big units, where is the population at now? They serve a purpose.

[Kael Posavatz]

justcallme A S H, on 29 November 2016 - 10:38 PM, said:

VOIP wildly unused? Every FP drop I've ever been in, if there are PUGs filling spots (1-7 spots) - VOIP is used every single time.

If a player is new, bringing unoptimised builds and doesn't really know the maps (like, you know, all new players) they are generally going to do 300-600dmg VOIP or no VOIP. That has absolutely zero bearing on dmg numbers because GOOD/EXPERIENCED players will do the bulk of the work.


Stop spouting absolute rubbish already.

Poor word choice on my part. I should not have said 'wildly unused'. mea culpa. Perhaps I should have said 'not used effectively' or something to that effect.

Very often I get sullen silence.

Most of the time there may be one or two who will interact with VOIP.

Almost always there'll be one, or two, or three who go off and do their own thing.

The majority of the time if my team take an uneven exchange against us in a single wave, what coordination exists will fall apart with comments like 'you suck' thrown up in the chat window.

On the flipside of all that, when a dozen PUGs stay coordinated, they can give a good accounting of themselves.

Yes. New players do not know the maps, or have CW-specific skills, or possibly mastered and moduled mechs. They are new, and for two of those three things I blame the lack of a competent CW tutorial. They also learn, and yes, generally it is placed on those who are not new to pick up some of the slack.

There is a world of difference between a player who is new, and PUG who is not coordinating well.

I know which I prefer to play with.

But you know what? That's just my experience. My opinion based on my experience. If you have had a different experience, good for you.

[TWIAFU]

naterist, on 29 November 2016 - 10:45 AM, said:

i get were your coming from, but teamspeak just doesnt seem to cut it for me. i dont think teams should have to rely on it. thats just a personal thing though maybe. i just wish all people were consolidated in game, and not spread all over heaven and hell in the dozens of teamspeak servers.

Teams dont have to rely on TS, they can use in game VOIP. They can but choose NOT to, because reasons. You have heard, in game, how often in game VOIP is used right? How often that is used to 'combat 12mans and TS'? Hell, how often is it used? Personally, not heard it used in weeks.

12mans use TS due it being superior app and vast amount of experience with TS/Vent as being part of a team, unit, guild, or whatever. Not to mention ability to grant speaking permissions within a Lance or full drop.