283 replies to this topic

[Ted Wayz]

Barantor, on 06 December 2016 - 07:53 PM, said:

You drive a 68 ford pickup with no disc brakes and 3 on the tree a lot different than a 2016 Corvette. That is the kind of difference I'm talking about. An Awesome is a much different mech than a Wolverine and both are way different than a Locust. Each require a different set of skills. A locust is different than a spider and both of those are in the same weight class too.

I think having different trees for mechs is fine, might work out well, should be interesting at least.

Not really. Gas, brake, steering wheel. Four tires. My skill increases as I drive different cars, not the cars. Get it yet?

[Y E O N N E]

Ted Wayz, on 06 December 2016 - 09:06 PM, said:

Not really. Gas, brake, steering wheel. Four tires. My skill increases as I drive different cars, not the cars. Get it yet?

Alternative way to think about things:

As you get better with the car, you start swapping out parts to make it do what you want it to do. Stiffer suspension, more horsepower, etc. Those are your skill tree items.

[Scythe Kagato]

I think I'd be OK with an EVE-like character-based skill system where XP gained in combat could be spent on enhancing the character's skills in various classes of mechs, weapons systems, and support skills.

[LordNothing]

Nightmare1, on 06 December 2016 - 06:00 PM, said:

Wow, really? Entitled much?

is it entitled to close your wallet when you feel you are getting shafted? if yes then damn right im entitled. i am entitled to the right to decide who i do buisness with, and have decided that it will not be pgi. what is this some kind of slave state where you dont get to decide where the fruits of your labor go?

when i started playing this game the jury was out on this free to play model. now they have come back and declared it a scam, and it is a buisness model i will no longer support with my dollar in the future. especially if this is one of the better ones. i payed into this game because at the time i felt it was fair. however that fair period was just the foot in the door, and its just a money vacuum from here on out.

Edited by LordNothing, 06 December 2016 - 10:01 PM.

[xengk]

Star Commander Horse, on 06 December 2016 - 07:25 PM, said:

And these are some small examples of why "Free to Play" is an awful business model.

Though I do enjoy MWO I hope it is the very last "free" to play MechWarrior title. If we all pay then no one can complain about a 'pay wall' or make "pay to win" accusations.

I pay quite a bit for colors, camo, mechs I don't feel like grinding C-bills for, buying C-bills because I don't want to grind them for modules, etc, etc, etc.

I think I may never play another free to play game, ever.
And if the next multiplayer MechWarrior game is "free" to play as well, I may just skip multiplayer altogether and stick with the "paid in full" MW5 Mercenaries game.



TLDR: The "Free" to Play Game Business Model is bad for us, the Customers.

My advice for those who want to save $$: pick one mech chassis and just stick with that. You will be its master, and the icing on the cake is that you'll also save money

Free to Play game have its advantage, especially for MO PVP.
On a game where other player are part of the content for the game, it is best to have little to no entry barrier for player to join.
It benefits player with high population, quick match making, and option to not pay a single cent yet still enjoy most of the game.

Pay to Play game will have lower population compare to F2P, which is ok for MMORPG where player spend most of their time grinding AI mob, and interact with only small part of player base.
Player are almost ensure of constant content as the dev don't need to worry about their next pay cheque (actually they worry about player retention even more with P2P model).

[Dahrsis]

Serious question for all of you who wanted a new skill tree, be it Pilot or Mech tree, which has branching options (this was request by most of you).
Did you really haven´t thought about the respec option before? Or did you just assumed it was without any cost involved?
As i remember there were even some ´How can PGI make more money´ posts with exactly this idea in it.

Worst thing of all, is the misconception of paywall here. A paywall is a service or item you need to advance, which can not be attained through ingame means. Besides cosmetics (and the ****** Hero Mechs) there just is not ONE paywall in MWO. Which is indeed better than most other Free to Play games you enounter these days.

Playing a F2P usually means substituting time for money with the OPTION to do it more convenient if paid.

For all those with 200+ Mechs. The only thing you ´lose´ is the idea of being done with a Mech (and i can respect that...darn Wolfhounds), but neither your time (exp) or C-Bills will be lost. This just expands on what you were able to do before.

Nevertheless i still hope there is an option to reset single node points (from last aquired to first aquired) for either MC (1 MC per node sounds right) or to be earned back with Exp.

Yes this is a rant. Sue me.

[Nerokar]

LordNothing, on 06 December 2016 - 04:34 PM, said:

pay2respec

sad

wallet closed.

I was sad first too.

BUT its not as bad as it sounds.

He said, the amount of time to get skillpoints to completely skill your mech will stay the same. Keep this in mind.
If we keep earning XP in a mech with completed skilltree, like we do now, we will have a healthy buffer of skillpoints on every mech that is played on regular basis. The only paywall you will have is build of CBills, IF you play you own build for some more then 30 matches before your respecc.

Keyword is the planing. It will be not possible to play one match in a PPFLD TBR respeccing to Laservommit for the next and SRM Brawler for the third match without burnig your XP. But if you build a specc to use for longer time you will get no problems with respec beside of CBill costs.

And all the unused XP we have now will actualy get a usage.

But the system will get anoying If we stop earning XP when completely skilled the mechtrees...

[Duke Nedo]

I'd like to see 2-3 free respecs that you can use while skilling a new mech. You don't always predict the best build from the start, and also the best build may be different in a new mech compared to a mech where you have unlocked heat management for example. One also may want to just try out some fun builds along the road. All this will be behind an MC-wall before you have maxed it out and built an XP-buffer.

[QuantumButler]

I mean until we actually see it on PTS we can't say for sure if these are just words to placate angry players or not, but so far they're at least saying the right things so that's not a bad sign, will reserve judgement until more concrete stuff is out there but I don't hate this so far.

Nerokar, on 07 December 2016 - 02:18 AM, said:

I was sad first too.

BUT its not as bad as it sounds.

He said, the amount of time to get skillpoints to completely skill your mech will stay the same. Keep this in mind.
If we keep earning XP in a mech with completed skilltree, like we do now, we will have a healthy buffer of skillpoints on every mech that is played on regular basis. The only paywall you will have is build of CBills, IF you play you own build for some more then 30 matches before your respecc.

Keyword is the planing. It will be not possible to play one match in a PPFLD TBR respeccing to Laservommit for the next and SRM Brawler for the third match without burnig your XP. But if you build a specc to use for longer time you will get no problems with respec beside of CBill costs.

And all the unused XP we have now will actualy get a usage.

But the system will get anoying If we stop earning XP when completely skilled the mechtrees...

Or if you own 100+ mechbays like me, just buy one timberwolf of each build you want!

[Haakon Magnusson]

As always, Russ says feature is almost ready and could go live next patch (Or something to this effect)
But the fact is they don't even have an executive summary what the system is going to be like, which to me implies some technical aspects got ready just at the last minute and they tossed the skill tree screenies in.

And now they have the HUGE task of trying to balance all those trees so that it is feasible to remove quirks from all mechs not have the bad ones be total crap.

And I am slightly worried though, even if bad ones get "deeper trees", they are going to suck more XP.. which means that the newbie buying, say dragon versus say griffin is going to be rather annoyed that he needs to gather a LOT of XP to even be on equal playing field.

Not impossible I am sure, just worriesome, I think this might be in playable condition somewhere around next summer.

[RedDragon]

Haakon Magnusson, on 07 December 2016 - 03:12 AM, said:

As always, Russ says feature is almost ready and could go live next patch (Or something to this effect)
But the fact is they don't even have an executive summary what the system is going to be like, which to me implies some technical aspects got ready just at the last minute and they tossed the skill tree screenies in.

And now they have the HUGE task of trying to balance all those trees so that it is feasible to remove quirks from all mechs not have the bad ones be total crap.

And I am slightly worried though, even if bad ones get "deeper trees", they are going to suck more XP.. which means that the newbie buying, say dragon versus say griffin is going to be rather annoyed that he needs to gather a LOT of XP to even be on equal playing field.

Not impossible I am sure, just worriesome, I think this might be in playable condition somewhere around next summer.

Being beta testers for every new feature is a honored tradition of MWO!

[Widowmaker1981]

BattleBunny, on 06 December 2016 - 02:58 PM, said:

Russ could score easy points by posting these things himself on these forums.

Why he wont do this I will never understand.

Yeah, i have no interest whatsoever in using Tw@tter, i don't understand the obsession with it.

[Peter2k]

Widowmaker1981, on 07 December 2016 - 03:24 AM, said:

Yeah, i have no interest whatsoever in using Tw@tter, i don't understand the obsession with it.

Confirmed a post is coming, everyone just loves jumping the gun and PGI is on the slow end of posting things


Also there's a myriad of post about the skill tree and the sky falling
If people would stay in one thread maybe everyone would get updated

RedDragon, on 07 December 2016 - 03:18 AM, said:

Being beta testers for every new feature is a honored tradition of MWO!

I get what you're saying

But PGI makes more use out of the PTS these days
See ED, ghost laser range
And skill tree

Haakon Magnusson, on 07 December 2016 - 03:12 AM, said:

As always, Russ says feature is almost ready and could go live next patch (Or something to this effect)
But the fact is they don't even have an executive summary what the system is going to be like, which to me implies some technical aspects got ready just at the last minute and they tossed the skill tree screenies in.

And now they have the HUGE task of trying to balance all those trees so that it is feasible to remove quirks from all mechs not have the bad ones be total crap.

And I am slightly worried though, even if bad ones get "deeper trees", they are going to suck more XP.. which means that the newbie buying, say dragon versus say griffin is going to be rather annoyed that he needs to gather a LOT of XP to even be on equal playing field.

Not impossible I am sure, just worriesome, I think this might be in playable condition somewhere around next summer.

That's not what Russ said at all
It would take longer to find the tweets, but something tells me you wouldn't open them, even in a browser, anyway


All values we saw in the video are placeholders

It's not going to be in the game anytime soon, it's going on the PTS soon

Getting the values right is what's the next month is for (I'm assuming Russ means January)

Mechs that need help, get a baseline of quirks (no idea if they just keep the old quirks, or give out new) and the skill tree is on top

I saw someone asking if Russ remembers a +ammo skill, Russ said yes he did, would be in
Though I would have to look a bit to find that one

[TheLuc]

Quirks should stay as for flavor and help the under performer.

a copy paste from an other thread,

The only thing we can ask for in MWO is Mechs, when players ask for features it always turns out for the worst with PGI. Current Skill tree is more a Mechanical Optimization tree and the new one is more in the line of Adjustments.

Its clear that some trees will be mandatory like the Operation and Survival

With 75 nods only, just the Operation section to get same cooling performance as now or slightly better is 21 nods of 75 so 54 nods left. In the Survival section will cost 10 Nods for maximum Armor and Structure bonus which the values seem quite lower than the quirks we got at the moment, this means the Summoner, Cataphract, Orion, Atlas and others will feel like paper again. Left with 44 nods, the Mobility Section is divided in 2 sub-section, upper and lower chassis. Upper chassis section is 24 Nods for maximum bonuses in torso twisting and arms aiming. Some Mechs that have no use of arms except as shields its a loss of 9 Nods right there to get maximum torso bonus. Lower chassis will cost 20 nods to get Speed Tweak at same value we currently have with half of chosen nods the player may not actually want.

No nods left, no weapon nods been yet chosen, no radar deprivation and no seismic sensors. Current Skill tree give access to all bonuses, you get the modules you want and you play different variants of the Mech chosen to spice things up. In the end the current system offers way more than what they offer.

Edited by TheLuc, 07 December 2016 - 04:07 AM.

[Weeny Machine]

Russ tweeted "This means you can reset for free ( C-bills ) but lose the node points. Or use MC to keep the node points."

Does that mean that if you use CBs to reset skills, you lose the points (and thus the experience)?

[Sixpack]

Bush Hopper, on 07 December 2016 - 07:51 AM, said:

Russ tweeted "This means you can reset for free ( C-bills ) but lose the node points. Or use MC to keep the node points."

Does that mean that if you use CBs to reset skills, you lose the points (and thus the experience)?

Yes, and before people start complaining that is a better system than others I have seen where you are locked in unless you spend premium currency.

[Lostdragon]

Dahrsis, on 07 December 2016 - 01:29 AM, said:

Serious question for all of you who wanted a new skill tree, be it Pilot or Mech tree, which has branching options (this was request by most of you).
Did you really haven´t thought about the respec option before? Or did you just assumed it was without any cost involved?
As i remember there were even some ´How can PGI make more money´ posts with exactly this idea in it.

Worst thing of all, is the misconception of paywall here. A paywall is a service or item you need to advance, which can not be attained through ingame means. Besides cosmetics (and the ****** Hero Mechs) there just is not ONE paywall in MWO. Which is indeed better than most other Free to Play games you enounter these days.

Playing a F2P usually means substituting time for money with the OPTION to do it more convenient if paid.

For all those with 200+ Mechs. The only thing you ´lose´ is the idea of being done with a Mech (and i can respect that...darn Wolfhounds), but neither your time (exp) or C-Bills will be lost. This just expands on what you were able to do before.

Nevertheless i still hope there is an option to reset single node points (from last aquired to first aquired) for either MC (1 MC per node sounds right) or to be earned back with Exp.

Yes this is a rant. Sue me.

I suggested in the past that they move to a pilot based system where you can have multiple pilots with their own skill trees. One might be specced for brawling, one for long range, one for scouting/support, etc. I also suggested a MC cost to respec these, however an MC cost to respec a mech to avoid losing the XP already invested is much less desirable. I like to play my (I) variants when I can for the Cbill boost, so I reconfigure their loadouts a lot. If I can't optimize the skills when I do this it will take a lot of fun out of the game when I want to experiment with or tweak several configurations.

If the MC cost to respec is very low it might not be so bad, but PGI is not known for their reasonable pricing schemes. Unlimited free respecs with Premium time would add a ton of value to PT though, which is something it needs.

[GabrielSun]

Why the hell would I follow any twitters? I have a forum account.

[WarHippy]

Barantor, on 06 December 2016 - 08:41 PM, said:

That grind to get heroes to 60 in Marvel heroes tho.....

I'm with you on the free respecs with premium time though, even if it was just "X free a month" on respecs it would be something.

Well, getting those first few heroes to 60 is certainly rough, but as you level heroes you get bonus XP on other heroes(that might be something they could do with mechs) until you max out at 200% bonus xp on your account. Even without xp bonus from potions(which they give out like candy), and events that they have weekly at this point I can go 1-60 in roughly five hours and that is with me doing it in a less than optimal way.

Someone really needs to suggest to Russ that free respects should be added to premium time. It is an added incentive to purchase premium time which currently some find to be less than desirable. I'm still against MC costs for real respects, but I can live with it so long as they are free for people with premium time.

Dahrsis, on 07 December 2016 - 01:29 AM, said:

Playing a F2P usually means substituting time for money with the OPTION to do it more convenient if paid.

That is what premium time is supposed to do. In the case of the skill tree resets as described they are not substituting time for money as that time(and money if you were using premium) has already been spent leveling the mech the first time. This is negating time/money spent and making you do something again unless you spend real money. This is not a discussion of time vs convenience it is a discussion of bad design.

Edited by WarHippy, 07 December 2016 - 08:46 AM.

[Y E O N N E]

GabrielSun, on 07 December 2016 - 08:41 AM, said:

Why the hell would I follow any twitters? I have a forum account.

Why would Russ follow the forums? He has a Twitter account.