24 replies to this topic

[Valkyrie Red one]

I havent played MWO since a looooong time now, but im still a mechwarrior fan and I was longing for a new MW game for years now. MWO is not it, in fact its lousy as a MW game and I have no love for its dev, but this is a last hope if I ever seen one. So know this.
MW4 is not a good example to make an MW game after. MWO even less so. We are supposed to pilot bipedal tanks. It should feel like it. This is no competitive online, so a less trigger happy, MORE REALISTIC, SIMULATOR orientated(in context of course) game is pretty much the only way. In 3 you could one shot mechs, cripple them with a few well placed shots and even step on people. In MWO I feel like I can unload alpha strikes on my opponents and do nothing.

Dear piranha devs, please play MW3 before making this. Or any tank or realistic combat flight sim for that matter.

Edited by Valkyrie Red one, 10 December 2016 - 01:03 PM.

[Metus regem]

I'd love it if they use MW2;Mercs as an example of what MW5 should be like...

[Valkyrie Red one]

Metus regem, on 10 December 2016 - 03:00 PM, said:

I'd love it if they use MW2;Mercs as an example of what MW5 should be like...

unfortunately this goes to the ones ive not played as its quite old. 4 got me interested(and its fairly good to be honest), but 3 is what gave me the most satisfaction piloting and shooting.

[Metus regem]

Valkyrie Red one, on 10 December 2016 - 03:09 PM, said:

unfortunately this goes to the ones ive not played as its quite old. 4 got me interested(and its fairly good to be honest), but 3 is what gave me the most satisfaction piloting and shooting.

I can understand that, but what made MW2; Mercs great was, multiple endings, various factions to work for, taking part in historic in universe battles and my personal favorite was taking jobs from ComStar to be a sh*t disturber between the great houses. Getting to fight on Tukayyid against the Clans.

[Valkyrie Red one]

Metus regem, on 11 December 2016 - 06:57 AM, said:

I can understand that, but what made MW2; Mercs great was, multiple endings, various factions to work for, taking part in historic in universe battles and my personal favorite was taking jobs from ComStar to be a sh*t disturber between the great houses. Getting to fight on Tukayyid against the Clans.

Youre gonna make me go out and find it(running it is going to be rough).

In anycase, Id really like to see designs rollback to older style. Hardcore industrial, rough, oily, dirty hulls. Like that trailer they showed many years ago.

[Saori Arai]

What I think the OP means is, and I agree, MechWarrior 3 had the best physics engine/combat system of any of the MechWarrior games. For example, in a game released in 1999, when you fired an autocannon mounted in one arm your recoil would push you back (torso) in that direction temporarily. Also, if you hit by too much physical fire (missile/cannon) in too short a time, your 'Mech could fall down.

That's just one example, there are a lot more things to say. I encourage anyone who hasn't to download the game and try it for themselves and see. I played MW3 a lot while the multiplayer was alive, and it was one of the best gaming experiences I ever had. I miss those days.

[Metus regem]

Saori Arai, on 11 December 2016 - 10:59 AM, said:

What I think the OP means is, and I agree, MechWarrior 3 had the best physics engine/combat system of any of the MechWarrior games. For example, in a game released in 1999, when you fired an autocannon mounted in one arm your recoil would push you back (torso) in that direction temporarily. Also, if you hit by too much physical fire (missile/cannon) in too short a time, your 'Mech could fall down.

That's just one example, there are a lot more things to say. I encourage anyone who hasn't to download the game and try it for themselves and see. I played MW3 a lot while the multiplayer was alive, and it was one of the best gaming experiences I ever had. I miss those days.

Don't get me wrong, I loved MW3. I really enjoyed being able to alter the landscape with big missile barrages, but story wise, MW2;Mercs was the best.

[Karl Streiger]

MW3 had a great look and feel. But it was far from perfect. The story missions were to linear - even to simple.
Althoug weapon handling was good - LRMs flight path and how to avoid incoming LRMs and missiles.

Heat system was also very adequate, recoil was mentioned as well as the ability to throw an enemy to the ground.

but as said the Mechwarrior 2 games had the best story lines and missions. Ok MW4 missions were not bad either (not to mistaken for MW4:mercs those missions were bad as were the Mechs from MW4: Mercs...)

[Valkyrie Red one]

So, story from MW2:MERC, gameplay from MW3 and graphics from U4. Id really like to see the mech designes revert back to something less supershiny sleek.

like in the vid bellow. The atlas in this looks badass. Warhammer is better also. No need to mention the pacing of the fight.

Edited by Valkyrie Red one, 12 December 2016 - 09:18 AM.

[Sylonce]

Mechwarrior 3 had the best "simulator" elements to it, although I hated the point-and-click aiming associated with it. The recoil, the knockbacks, and the weapon behavior were all good. My biggest issue with the game however is that the story wasn't too memorable.

I agree with all the rest in using MW2: Mercs as a benchmark.

Quote

I can understand that, but what made MW2; Mercs great was, multiple endings, various factions to work for, taking part in historic in universe battles and my personal favorite was taking jobs from ComStar to be a sh*t disturber between the great houses. Getting to fight on Tukayyid against the Clans.

You don't actually fight on Tukayyid against the Clans in MW2: Mercs. That was a Comstar battle, and the only time you see that was in the ending movie.

You do get to fight with the Dracs on Luthien though. You also get to fight on Wolcott, although in actual fiction, it was not as prolonged as it was in the game.

[Steel Raven]

I'm really tiered of people treating MW3 as the prodigal child, it's where the 'aim with mouse' mechanic came from to the chagrin to those who rather use the joy stick and throttle.

MW2 did so many thing right but its old, like Tekken 2 and Mortal Kombat 2 in terms of fighting games old.

If we didn't have such a huge time gap in the game series between MechWarrior 4 Mercs and MWO (thanks Microsoft, why the hell do you even have a game division? ) we may actually had a better progression of game play (of lack there of) vs 4 years of drastic re-balancing as the community argues which past incarnation was better instead of trying to figure out the common elements for a better game. Biggest common denominator: build everything in the game game around a solid single player experience.

[Metus regem]

Sylonce, on 15 December 2016 - 11:39 AM, said:

Mechwarrior 3 had the best "simulator" elements to it, although I hated the point-and-click aiming associated with it. The recoil, the knockbacks, and the weapon behavior were all good. My biggest issue with the game however is that the story wasn't too memorable.

I agree with all the rest in using MW2: Mercs as a benchmark.



You don't actually fight on Tukayyid against the Clans in MW2: Mercs. That was a Comstar battle, and the only time you see that was in the ending movie.

You do get to fight with the Dracs on Luthien though. You also get to fight on Wolcott, although in actual fiction, it was not as prolonged as it was in the game.

Luthien, Tukayyid same **** different day for the IS.... I still remember the first time I bumped into those "Unknowns" during the campaign.... rough mission that was...

[Valkyrie Red one]

I think MW4 mechlab should be retained with hard points an the lot. It was far easier to equip mechs.


BTW Got myself a download of MW2 Mercenaries. The mechanics have aged fairly well, But besides the initial trouble running the game, I have trouble with the combersome and clunky controls menu.

[Valkyrie Red one]

So I found this guy and he is hilarious while taking on the subject

[9erRed]

Greetings all,

Keep in mind that if PGI adds any ability to visually destroy or kill ground troops with weapons fire or stepping on, the games rating will be increased. Most likely an ESRB "Mature 17+" rating for that type of visuals and Gore. Simplifying the effects and removing the blood and additional effects could allow for a lower rating, but it just wouldn't be the same or as satisfying to the player. (because we all want to see that level of carnage from BettleMech's!)

- ESRB Mature (M): Games with this rating contain content which the ESRB believes is suitable for those aged 17 years and older; they can contain content with an impact higher than the "Teen" rating can accommodate, including intense and/or realistic portrayals of violence (such as blood, gore, mutilation, and depictions of death), stronger sexual themes and content, partial nudity, and more frequent use of strong language.


If they tone down the scenes somewhat and don't actually show explicit content, they may be able to get it rated to the "Teen" ESRB rating. And allow a greater audience and platform involvement.

- ESRB Teen (T): Games with this rating contain content which the ESRB believes is suitable for those aged 13 years and older; they can contain moderate amounts of violence (including small amounts of blood), mild to moderate use of strong language or suggestive themes, and crude humor.

Also keep in mind that different Countries have somewhat different qualifiers for these ratings. But lets see what PGI deems reasonable violence for their new game, and what's currently 'the norm' for this type of Mech combat. That 'other game' Titan Fall has some very ghastly pilot and infantry kill visuals, is rated as PEGI 18, ESRB M, but still played across multiple platforms by a wide variety of ages. So, what PGI would like to visualize and where the rating falls may/will set just how 'Great' some of the action will be.
~ Flamers and Mg's against ground troops is what they were designed for but if they show the actual effects, again, could drive the rating up too high. But then again I've seen Castle building games with archers setting fire to many ground troops and not change that games rating.??

9erRed

[Rogue Jedi]

one thing I remember about MW3 ^{(it has been at least 10, probably closer to 15 years since I last played it)} was that there were some weapons which could not be used in the campaign because it was near impossible to get enough ammo, e.g. towards the end of the campaign I decided I wanted to use a certain 100 ton assualt with its stock 4 LBX10s, but despite having salvaged every shell I could find for the LB10 during the rest of the campaign I did not have anywhere near enouth ammo to load the standard configuration of the Anahilator.

MW3 definately had some good points but it was far from perfect.

I loved the idea you drop in with very limited support and literaly only survive by salvaging but having to swap out armor type because I ran out, or be very careful if taking ammo based weapons because I was not finding enough ammo is likely to be annoying for some people.

that would work great for mini campaigns, your lance will be dropped with an MFB behind enemy lines your job is to fight through 3 sectors (missions) to get to the objective , kill the objective (4th mission) then kill the orbital gun and secure a drop zone (5) and hold out so we can get a drop ship in to get you out (6) that could be a great mini campaign,

the MFB should be able to carry a few Mechs and other salvage, totaling maybe 500 tons but the only supplies you have for the mission are what you can load onto the MFB so if you take ammo based weapons you had best make sure you bring enough ammo, and do you bring spare Mechs ^{(the MFB should be able to replace armor and reload weapons but should not have full Mechlab functionality, and should be unable to repair serious structural damage e.g. replacing destroyed limbs or damaged engines)} or leave the MFB lightly loaded so you can get lots of salvage?

lets say at this point you only have Lights and Mediums, a Marauder is up for salvage but your MFB does not have any spare Mechbays, do you dump the Star League spec Hunchback you braught as a reserve just in case your beloved Griffin gets badly damaged or give up on salvaging that Marauder?

in my opinion those sort of conciderations for short campaigns would be great but cannot be the whole game, as it is a mercinaries title it could have a variaty of diferant support levels depending on your contract ^{(maybe even options to bid for more/less employer support resulting in reduced/increased wages)} from drop behind enemy lines with no support to extended campaigns backed by an MFB or grounded dropship ^{(e.g. you need to kill the orbital gun to make your escape)} to single missions with full support or base defence missions where you have full support from the bases defences

[Valkyrie Red one]

Rogue Jedi, on 23 December 2016 - 01:32 PM, said:

one thing I remember about MW3 ^{(it has been at least 10, probably closer to 15 years since I last played it)} was that there were some weapons which could not be used in the campaign because it was near impossible to get enough ammo, e.g. towards the end of the campaign I decided I wanted to use a certain 100 ton assualt with its stock 4 LBX10s, but despite having salvaged every shell I could find for the LB10 during the rest of the campaign I did not have anywhere near enouth ammo to load the standard configuration of the Anahilator.

MW3 definately had some good points but it was far from perfect.

I loved the idea you drop in with very limited support and literaly only survive by salvaging but having to swap out armor type because I ran out, or be very careful if taking ammo based weapons because I was not finding enough ammo is likely to be annoying for some people.

I think customisable difficulty options can remedy this and offer people the experience they want.

In anycase, I tried to put a video earlier of a guy I found talking about the news, but I failed. here it is again.

[Vanguard319]

Saori Arai, on 11 December 2016 - 10:59 AM, said:

What I think the OP means is, and I agree, MechWarrior 3 had the best physics engine/combat system of any of the MechWarrior games. For example, in a game released in 1999, when you fired an autocannon mounted in one arm your recoil would push you back (torso) in that direction temporarily. Also, if you hit by too much physical fire (missile/cannon) in too short a time, your 'Mech could fall down.

That's just one example, there are a lot more things to say. I encourage anyone who hasn't to download the game and try it for themselves and see. I played MW3 a lot while the multiplayer was alive, and it was one of the best gaming experiences I ever had. I miss those days.

The physics engine could do more than that. You could destroy buildings, and even leave craters in the terrain. there has not been a MechWarrior game since that matched that level of detail. (the MechAssault games came pretty close though.)

[Davegt27]

need to review MW stuff

[Weepy Wanebow]

I hated the heat system in MW3, it was terrible. The heat system from MW4 or MWO is far superior. The recoil from guns is something I miss and could actually help balance out some of the pin point issues that plague MWO. I also liked falling after getting rocked by a bunch of gun fire, although that doesn't work well in anything but a single player game.

Also I'm not a fan of the rageoholic's take on MechWarrior. He obviously I working from memory and not from recent experience in many of his statements. I beat MW3 and Pirate's Moon less then a year ago (getting it to run right is a nightmare) and right after that played MW4 an Black Knight.

While the physics of a mechs being a lumbering war machine is satisfying in MW3, it suffered from the same problems that previous Mechwarror games did in that you could pretty much customize your mech however you wanted as long as crit slots and weight worked out. It made for some wild and ridiculous game play. Also as stated, the heat system was trash, want to fire 2 or 3 weapons in a row or at the same time? get ready to over heat, regardless of how many heat sinks you have.....garbage. Mechs were super fragile in that game as well. The only reason some mission could be beaten is because you had the little dudes that could repair you.

MW4 had repair stations on maps but you didn't need to use them nearly as much as you needed in misson repairs in MW3. The heat system was way better then all previous MechWarrior games as well. Also, Mechs had a distinct feel between weight classes for the first time out side of the heavier you go, the slower you go (even though in general they were all in at least some ways more agile then their MW3 counterparts.). Mechs in MW4 felt sturdier but not invincible. Making bad choices hurt you but were rarely the instant death/legging they were in MW3.

What the ragoholic gets wrong and a lot of players seem to forget is that pin point damage has pretty much been thing since MW3. It could be done in MW2 but solidly since MW3 have you been able to isolate, target, and actively destroy a component of your choice with little to no difficulty. The statement that I see happening over and over again that this wasn't thing an it was more just a cone of fire is straight up not accurate. There are enough game play videos online that if you don't want to play them yourself, are incapable of playing them yourself, or don't have access to the games, that you can look tem up and see that it isn't true.

Also be aware that any reference to "real tank warfare" is going to be inaccurate and subjectively "realistic" at best. You might think that "if tank A shoots tank B, then tank B is gonna feel it and die and it is going to be crazy!!!" Which may be true for the average tank but there are tanks that are specifically designed to hunt and destroy other tanks, they are armored beasts and you can pound on them with other conventional tanks and conventional anti-tank weaponry all day with little more then scratches and hearing loss for the crew..... also tank on tank warfare is not nearly as common as movies would have people believe......plus Sci-Fi.....so yeah