59 replies to this topic

[LT. HARDCASE]

So few mechs are affected, and all this means is that you can't brain dead alphawarrior with SRM36+ anymore.

[Mole]

QuantumButler, on 10 December 2016 - 07:01 PM, said:

Can't let brawling possibly compete with the front loaded pinpoint damage sniping meta.

You're kidding, right? My Catapult C4 is capable of dumping 61.6 points of practically pinpoint damage every 4 seconds. It has 4 launchers and is not affected by this nerf. My Atlas is capable of dumping 74.4 points of damage in a similar manner and it is unaffected by this nerf. My Archer, while it also has LRMs, is capable of dumping 34.4 points of damage every 3 seconds and it is unaffected by this nerf. Shadow Cat, 50 points of damage, unaffected. All of the 'mechs I've just listed are SRM brawlers owned by me that are by no stretch of the imagination bad 'mechs and they are all unaffected by this nerf. Just because they've given SRMs harsher ghost heat penalties for boating more than 4 launchers doesn't mean they've broken brawling.

[Koniving]

fire your srms in a pair or in sequence and you wont have been nerfed.

Edited by Koniving, 10 December 2016 - 07:29 PM.

[QuantumButler]

Mole, on 10 December 2016 - 07:20 PM, said:

You're kidding, right? My Catapult C4 is capable of dumping 61.6 points of practically pinpoint damage every 4 seconds. It has 4 launchers and is not affected by this nerf. My Atlas is capable of dumping 74.4 points of damage in a similar manner and it is unaffected by this nerf. My Archer, while it also has LRMs, is capable of dumping 34.4 points of damage every 3 seconds and it is unaffected by this nerf. Shadow Cat, 50 points of damage, unaffected. All of the 'mechs I've just listed are SRM brawlers owned by me that are by no stretch of the imagination bad 'mechs and they are all unaffected by this nerf. Just because they've given SRMs harsher ghost heat penalties for boating more than 4 launchers doesn't mean they've broken brawling.

It's a slippery slope my man, one nerf here, another there, suddenly one day they're trash. see the UAC10s and 20s.

Edited by QuantumButler, 10 December 2016 - 07:29 PM.

[Sorbic]

Bombast, on 10 December 2016 - 04:32 PM, said:

Probably because even the most poorly sinked mech could alpha with an SRM36 four times without break before shutting down, and the new heat capacity buff would have made that even worse.

EDIT: For people who haven't read the patch, here you go. I thought it was pretty clear.



https://mwomercs.com...ec2016#gameplay

Close, my the A1 with skill Efficiency Multiplier x2 unlocked will overheat (barely) from 0 heat/standing still on the third SRM 36 volley. I agree that the penalty should go up but REALLY wish they would take small steps instead of these big pendulum swings.

[Dee Eight]

Ahhhh and I never put together a 100+ alpha damage archer yet. Might have to do that before the ghost heat scale change tuesday.

Sorbic, on 10 December 2016 - 08:01 PM, said:

Close, my the A1 with skill Efficiency Multiplier x2 unlocked will overheat (barely) from 0 heat/standing still on the third SRM 36 volley. I agree that the penalty should go up but REALLY wish they would take small steps instead of these big pendulum swings.

Yes because they small stepped the UAC/10 heat scale...

C-ULTRA AC/10 3.00 6.00 17.10 33.60 56.85 86.85 125.85 178.35

Also the double-tap penalty bug, still exists for 3 or more UAC/10s together. So if you double-tap 2, its 12 heat. Double-tap 3 and its 86.85 heat.

Edited by Dee Eight, 11 December 2016 - 11:58 PM.

[LordNothing]

this is mostly going to affect srm boats. like people running 36 tube jenner iics. poor tubes, im gonna miss that little death bot.

people just running a couple asrm6es on their assault arent even going to notice it. this nerf is much less severe than it looks. its only going to effect stupid srm builds (like tubes, and hardly much since i usually fire in a 1-2 punch to avoid heat spikes).

Edited by LordNothing, 11 December 2016 - 08:34 AM.

[Weeny Machine]

Escef, on 10 December 2016 - 06:05 PM, said:

The big thing there is patience. Which is rather ironic. People whine about mechs with LRMs not sharing armor while people are trading long to mid range fire, but are perfectly ok with the brawling specialists waiting in pristine condition and not engaging at all.

I am sorry but that's a stupid comment. Why?
A LRM boat is more effective being near the front due to the travel time of the LRM. Showing itself gets it targeted soaking damage another mech would take. The same goes for snipers. A LRM boat which sits in the back and doesn't share armour means that all shot have to be eaten by its friends. I have seen many matches were LRM boats were the last mech and in pristine condition...and got rolled.

As for brawler...LRM boats have a choice - on some maps brawlers do not have that choice (Alpine, Polar etc) and can in some situation do nothing until either the enemy spreads out or is in a position were the brawler can attack without being instant gibbed. Too bad that the problems brawlers have is to blame on PGI: maps which lead to snipefests with too much open terrain, peek-a-boo playstyle support, seismic sensor etc

So please do not compare stupid voluntary behaviour with a forced-upon behaviour

[Y E O N N E]

QuantumButler, on 10 December 2016 - 07:28 PM, said:

It's a slippery slope my man, one nerf here, another there, suddenly one day they're trash. see the UAC10s and 20s.

Except, cUAC/10s are still prolific and cUAC/20s were never good...

The poster-child for slippery slope nerfing is probably the PPC. First it was min-range, then it was a heat increase, then there was a rate of fire decrease, then there was the velocity reduction...boom, garbage.

[Chados]

Well, they've also buffed heat sinks. There's going to be some offset there.

[PhoenixFire55]

Snazzy Dragon, on 10 December 2016 - 04:36 PM, said:

Clearly OP has never been one shot by 7 srm6+A cyclops with range extension from 300 meters.

The fact that you think that it is possible to build an 7xASRM6 Cyclops really tells everyone that you have no clue what you are talking about to begin with ...

[Mole]

PhoenixFire55, on 11 December 2016 - 09:26 AM, said:

The fact that you think that it is possible to build an 7xASRM6 Cyclops really tells everyone that you have no clue what you are talking about to begin with ...

Well I did just go sot smurfy's and build a 6 SRM6+A and 1 SRM4+A Cyclops. It was extremely impractical though.

[Spheroid]

What do they mean by 1 to 1.75 heat penalty? Those numbers don't line up at all with the heat penalty table at smurfy's.

The math is unclear to me.

[Deathlike]

Spheroid, on 11 December 2016 - 10:20 AM, said:

What do they mean by 1 to 1.75 heat penalty? Those numbers don't line up at all with the heat penalty table at smurfy's.

The math is unclear to me.

It's the Ghost Heat multiplier.

It's fair enough to assume the math at smurfy's is correct before the match. It's easier to say that hitting the Ghost Heat penalty will hurt more with things like Archers and Cyclops with their larger potential SRM alphas, not just existing mechs with 5+ missile hardpoints.

[Spheroid]

@Deathlike

Break it down. How can the current value of 1.0 result in a fractional heat value if used in either a multiplicative or additive manner? That is what is confusing. I thought that perhaps they were giving the ghost heat multiplier range, but super boating missiles(8+) would have a higher value than that as well.

Edited by Spheroid, 11 December 2016 - 11:00 AM.

[Y E O N N E]

The first weapon to trigger ghost heat has its base heat multiplied by the multiplier. That's how it works.

Five SRM4 is 12 heat from the first four plus the fifth, whose heat is the 3.00*1.45. That gives you 16.35 heat.

It also works for the SRM6.

What doesn't seem to work are the LRM values. Using that formula, I get 19.08 heat after ghost, not 21.02. LRM5 is 8.6, not 9.68.

[Deathlike]

Spheroid, on 11 December 2016 - 10:55 AM, said:

@Deathlike

Break it down. How can the current value of 1.0 result in a fractional heat value if used in either a multiplicative or additive manner? That is what is confusing. I thought that perhaps they were giving the ghost heat multiplier range, but super boating missiles(8+) would have a higher value than that as well.

There's a formula, and it's not exactly linear either. I just leave it to smurfy to do math for me.

[L3mming2]

Yeonne Greene, on 10 December 2016 - 04:34 PM, said:

This is hardly a nerf to SRMs. Most people that I've seen are already firing SRM6 as 18+18 or 24 + 18 and not a full blast. Those with only four launchers are completely untouched.

Really, though, the big news is that Skillcrows and such are now unable to fire SSRM36 volleys without roasting. Justice, tbqh.

LET THEM BURN!

the LCT.

[Escef]

Bush Hopper, on 11 December 2016 - 08:54 AM, said:

I am sorry but that's a stupid comment. Why?

/insert a bunch of stuff I never implied and criticism of the things I didn't say.

So please do not compare stupid voluntary behaviour with a forced-upon behaviour

Uh huh. Whatever you say.

[Nerokar]

Escef, on 10 December 2016 - 06:05 PM, said:

The big thing there is patience. Which is rather ironic. People whine about mechs with LRMs not sharing armor while people are trading long to mid range fire, but are perfectly ok with the brawling specialists waiting in pristine condition and not engaging at all.

It is not ironic... There is a difference between a waiting brawler and hiding LRM boat in this game. While a LRM boat can actively engage enemy at high ranges and trade armor, and is even rewarded doing so thanks to Artemis and Tag, the brawler is simply punished doing this. As he has to:

1) become a bad brawler by dropping his knives for some poor ranged dps or
2) becoming a damaged brawler and doing no dmg but trading his armor...
3) rushing, doing some nice dmg, if he get close enought and die

This are conditions why brawler wait for lategame (and it will come in 80% of games. And a waitding brawler will shine there).
And now tell me the tactical advantage of a hiding LRM boat, shooting at max RNG and not trading armor.

Edited by Nerokar, 12 December 2016 - 12:00 AM.