59 replies to this topic

[Dee Eight]

Ok...so I bought a second ARC-5W... with 9 SRM6s, 9 tons of ammo, 300XL, Endo, 12DHS total every space is filled. You can alternatively use SRM4 with artemis instead of the SRM6 if you want to go that route. Either way though, you quickly hit max heat even without awakening the ghost. The biggest problem is the hit registration lately is just TERRIBLE. Oh the game tracks how much you did for the end match results...but good luck having that damage actually applied properly to the target. I put 54 SRMs into the rear torso of a timberwolf from nearly point blank range...and he walked away. It took another 70 or so finish him off. That is a ridiculous amount of damage into a mech who's torso doesn't have that much health. In testing grounds where everything registers perfectly, I can drop an atlas 7S in a lot less effort than that from behind.

Edited by Dee Eight, 12 December 2016 - 12:07 AM.

[DovisKhan]

Bombast, on 10 December 2016 - 04:32 PM, said:

Probably because even the most poorly sinked mech could alpha with an SRM36 four times without break before shutting down, and the new heat capacity buff would have made that even worse.

EDIT: For people who haven't read the patch, here you go. I thought it was pretty clear.



https://mwomercs.com...ec2016#gameplay

So you mean to say it's a patch meant to send SRMs into further obscurity when short pulse lasers were already debatably better tool for short range combat, got it

[Escef]

Nerokar, on 11 December 2016 - 11:55 PM, said:

And now tell me the tactical advantage of a hiding LRM boat, shooting at max RNG and not trading armor.

How about instead you tell me the tactical advantage of brawlers that make no effort to engage? Because hiding until all of the ranged assets are dead and then getting slaughtered by the enemy team is what I see a disproportionate number of brawlers doing.

[DovisKhan]

Escef, on 12 December 2016 - 12:54 AM, said:

How about instead you tell me the tactical advantage of brawlers that make no effort to engage? Because hiding until all of the ranged assets are dead and then getting slaughtered by the enemy team is what I see a disproportionate number of brawlers doing.

You're talking terrible team cohesion, tweaking weapons can't change that


Brawlers wait cause the team is made up of cowards that won't advance and rather trade poorly, they do that because they have 2 options:

1) Go solo and die

2) Wait with the team


What this basically means that you can only use short range builds on fast flanking mechs, because otherwise you're team dependent


That is why specialist builds like 6 ASRM6 are feast or famine and simple builds like 2 CERPPCs or 2 C Large Pulses will always net you ~500 dmg or more

Edited by DovisKhan, 12 December 2016 - 01:32 AM.

[Nerokar]

Escef, on 12 December 2016 - 12:54 AM, said:

How about instead you tell me the tactical advantage of brawlers that make no effort to engage? Because hiding until all of the ranged assets are dead and then getting slaughtered by the enemy team is what I see a disproportionate number of brawlers doing.

Ok. There is a lot of things a hiding brawler can contribute.

• Protecting you from those red light squad who like lurmbaots a lot
  
• counter enemy pressure on maps where longrange combat is NOT the A and O like

• canyon
  
• caustic
  
• crimson
  
• forest
  
• HPG
  
• mining
  
• viridian

• build pressure on enemy team
  
• spot/counterspot
  
• hold locks for lurms
  
• assasinate lurms and snipers
  
• attacking on Assault/Domination/Conquest

Again: There is plenty to do as a waiting brawler. Things, that hiding Lurms can not do.


Noone complains on Lurms if they are played offensive. The people complain on lurms sitting behind a wall at 999m Range spaming LRMs with nothing but >1600 Rockets. If a Lurmboat stays with the team at 500-600 m range making use of his own tag and artemis he is a great asset of the team. In my PB I love this kind of lurm boats, because they actualy hit things they shoot at... and save my little ... mech.

As I love brawler, they are a save spot for me. If someone hunts me and there is a blue streak crow I will be happy to run to him (and most brawler wait near the team)

But if I hear at match beginning from an KGC: I got 60 tubes and 1980 ammo, hold locks!

Only thing I think is: What a wasted firepower... unless the map name is alpine or polar. THEN I (as a spotter and brawler) have a good hope that I can make his build work... And guess what I do in my PB while hiding? I hold locks *gasp*

What happens with a team without long range hiding LRM boats? Nothing. It works.

What happens with a team without brawler but a lot of Lurms? Hard time getting locks. You may have a good time in first 3-4 min of the match. But then the range will be so close, that your hiding lurms get some big problems. There will be no brawler holding the line for you...

Edited by Nerokar, 12 December 2016 - 01:56 AM.

[Escef]

Nerokar, on 12 December 2016 - 01:37 AM, said:

Ok. There is a lot of things a hiding brawler can contribute.

Can they? Sure. In practice, however, most of them just sit there with their thumbs up their hindquarters.

DovisKhan, on 12 December 2016 - 01:32 AM, said:

Brawlers wait cause...

I know why it happens. Thanks.

[El Bandito]

DovisKhan, on 12 December 2016 - 12:43 AM, said:

So you mean to say it's a patch meant to send SRMs into further obscurity when short pulse lasers were already debatably better tool for short range combat, got it

If you are not alphaing with more than 5 SRM6 launchers together, you wouldn't even notice any difference. Which means most mechs have nothing to worry about.

As for SPL being somewhat better than SRMs, speak for Clan version only. IS SPL is utter crap. That **** needs to be balanced.

Edited by El Bandito, 12 December 2016 - 03:02 AM.

[DovisKhan]

El Bandito, on 12 December 2016 - 03:01 AM, said:

If you are not alphaing with more than 5 SRM6 launchers together, you wouldn't even notice any difference. Which means most mechs have nothing to worry about.

As for SPL being somewhat better than SRMs, speak for Clan version only. IS SPL is utter crap. That **** needs to be balanced.

Still, why nerf an already very situational weapon

[Nerokar]

Escef, on 12 December 2016 - 02:53 AM, said:

Can they? Sure. In practice, however, most of them just sit there with their thumbs up their hindquarters.

I know why it happens. Thanks.

Oh man, I ask you for tactical adv. of hiding lurms. You answer to me: No! you!
I make effort to write some examples for you that I practice a lot and see a lot of people doing so. And your answer on my post? Not true! And only to selected out of context snippets of my post? Realy?
You could convince me that hiding lurmboat is a good asset of a team and offers something I can't see but instead you are simply whining how unfair the treatment of lurms is without any arguments.
I have no fun to 'discuss' in this way. If anyone else but Esceff can explain me the advantages of a long range hiding lurm, I would be glad to hear them.

Thanks!

Edited by Nerokar, 12 December 2016 - 03:25 AM.

[Bombast]

DovisKhan, on 12 December 2016 - 12:43 AM, said:

So you mean to say it's a patch meant to send SRMs into further obscurity when short pulse lasers were already debatably better tool for short range combat, got it

IS SPLs are terrible, and SPLs in general require absolutely absurd quantities of hard points, being useless at anything below, what, 4-6, depending on mech weight? While SRMs can be useful at 2+.

[DovisKhan]

Bombast, on 12 December 2016 - 06:03 AM, said:

IS SPLs are terrible, and SPLs in general require absolutely absurd quantities of hard points, being useless at anything below, what, 4-6, depending on mech weight? While SRMs can be useful at 2+.

SRM6s are near worthless without Artemis if you don't have at least 3 of them, and even so the damage is spread


So technically you spend 10 tons for the same dmg output you could achieve with 4 clan smalls


Having 2 of them means you're simply taking away from your main weapon efficiency, since you're far better of with adding more heatsinks or having a bigger engine

[Bombast]

DovisKhan, on 12 December 2016 - 06:29 AM, said:

SRM6s are near worthless without Artemis if you don't have at least 3 of them, and even so the damage is spread

So technically you spend 10 tons for the same dmg output you could achieve with 4 clan smalls

Having 2 of them means you're simply taking away from your main weapon efficiency, since you're far better of with adding more heatsinks or having a bigger engine

...Ok?

Non-Artemis SRMs work fine, and SPLs require massive amounts of hardpoints. Hardpoints that, beyond light mechs, and maybe a few of the lighter mediums, are almost always better spent on heavier lasers. While SRMs maintain their usefulness from lights to assaults.

I mean, if you wanted to pit Mediums and MPLs against SRMs, I guess that's something. But SPLs are highly situational weapons that are pretty useless outside of the lightest of mechs with the boatiest of energy hard points. While SRMs are useful everywhere, from Lights like the Jenner IIC to assaults like the Cyclops (Which do have to boat them, because of low individual tube count).

[process]

This nerf makes sense in the context of ghost heat, which is still a band aid. 99% of my SRM builds don't go over 4 ASRM 6, so not a big difference in practice.

I wouldn't mind seeing, for starters, IS small and small pulse lasers have their range extended to close to, if not the same as medium laser range. The duration vs damage trade off would provide some interesting options.

Edited by process, 12 December 2016 - 07:32 AM.

[Weeny Machine]

Escef, on 11 December 2016 - 10:40 PM, said:

Uh huh. Whatever you say.

I am sorry if that's beyond you. Proof below

Escef, on 12 December 2016 - 12:54 AM, said:

How about instead you tell me the tactical advantage of brawlers that make no effort to engage? Because hiding until all of the ranged assets are dead and then getting slaughtered by the enemy team is what I see a disproportionate number of brawlers doing.

Edited by Bush Hopper, 12 December 2016 - 07:52 AM.

[rolly]

Yeonne Greene, on 10 December 2016 - 04:34 PM, said:

Really, though, the big news is that Skillcrows and such are now unable to fire SSRM36 volleys without roasting. Justice, tbqh.

Sounds to me just in time for the new changed to FP. Enjoy your baking Skillcrows, maybe Scouting will be a bit more enjoyable for some of us.

[rolly]

LT. HARDCASE, on 10 December 2016 - 07:04 PM, said:

So few mechs are affected, and all this means is that you can't brain dead alphawarrior with SRM36+ anymore.

Yay for not dumbing this game down any further!

[El Bandito]

DovisKhan, on 12 December 2016 - 03:10 AM, said:

Still, why nerf an already very situational weapon

Just cause the weapon is situational, doesn't mean such restriction is unwarranted. Heck, by your logic, there should be almost no GH penalty for LRM boating.

[Escef]

Nerokar, on 12 December 2016 - 03:22 AM, said:

Oh man, I ask you for tactical adv. of hiding lurms. You answer to me: No! you!

Because in asking me that question you already gave me the exact same answer. Care to tell me why it's ok for you to do that, but wrong for me?

[LordNothing]

Bush Hopper, on 11 December 2016 - 08:54 AM, said:

I am sorry but that's a stupid comment. Why?
A LRM boat is more effective being near the front due to the travel time of the LRM. Showing itself gets it targeted soaking damage another mech would take. The same goes for snipers. A LRM boat which sits in the back and doesn't share armour means that all shot have to be eaten by its friends. I have seen many matches were LRM boats were the last mech and in pristine condition...and got rolled.

As for brawler...LRM boats have a choice - on some maps brawlers do not have that choice (Alpine, Polar etc) and can in some situation do nothing until either the enemy spreads out or is in a position were the brawler can attack without being instant gibbed. Too bad that the problems brawlers have is to blame on PGI: maps which lead to snipefests with too much open terrain, peek-a-boo playstyle support, seismic sensor etc

So please do not compare stupid voluntary behaviour with a forced-upon behaviour

i have to agree. when im stuck with a team that decides that its best interest is to camp the enemy at 800 meters, i dont have many options if im kitted out as a pure brawler. while patience is a virtue, i think its important for a team to utilize all of its assets, its brawlers as much as its campers. otherwise you are coming at the enemy at much less than 100%.

option one is to support the line, usually by covering the flank on the off chance some light mech tries to get behind the target fixated campers. of course when this does happen, most of the time all the campers break their line to get an easy kill. so not only do they hold me back where im useless, but they also take the one job i can do when it presents itself. im usually better at that job than any one camper, but not better than 6 er laser boats that all want the same isolated target.

option two is usually a suicidal leeroy jinkens run. on maps with cover this is actually the preferable option when your team gets all sedentary. on more open maps, it a suicidal waste of a mech. its sort of like how the rebels lost the battle of gettysburg. if you do this and die, even if you get a kill or two, your team will blame you for the loss. campers and lerm boats not pushing the line is a lot like scouts not pressing r. a simple action can give your team the keys to victory and its simply not being done.

there are other options, for example if you are fast you could do some forward observation or scouting. a slower mech cant do this but they can try to rally a charge by advancing the front, and hopefully the team moves forward with him. you can also equip your bawers with couple low end long range weapons, like lrm5s, an ac2 or an erll. at least that way you can participate in the trades at least initially until the range closes. you will be sub optimal and might be better served to save your armor until you really need it. but every laser can count in a trade battle. ultimately the team needs to act like a team.

Edited by LordNothing, 12 December 2016 - 10:19 PM.

[Johnny Z]

....

Edited by Johnny Z, 12 December 2016 - 10:38 PM.