17 replies to this topic

[Ximenetto]

I don't know what happen,i usually kill from 2 to 4 mechs on a PUG,but this night i killed 1 mech and with luck. Every other kills has been stealed from me,counting to the teammate. But half all PUGs loss.

So,maybe i have bad luck and i think that night PUGs have bad players. All on my team die so quick and players are so weird,because they select hot maps like terra therma and so. The best maps are polar highlands for example or frozen city. They have 0% increased hot on ur mech.

Also,maybe the IS mechs are worse on firepower,because i do the same work with the Rifleman C as the Nova S and i can't kill what i want.

Here is my build of Rifleman C,my first builded mech on this account:

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...4caf6fbd725aee8

Here is my last account (Warden Xim) first builded mech,the Nova S:

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...056a4484115c9e8

I know that small pulse lasers can be lethal,but i think that médium lasers aren't that bad.

But the proff was this night,i only killed 2 mech on 10 matches. But because teammates steals my kills. I thought that machine-guns are the best for shred internals,but when this occurss,a guy with large laser/pulse laser appears and steal my kill.

It was very frustrating.

Hopefully on the light of the day i find better teammates.

[Tesunie]

You have mashed a 50 ton payload into a 60 ton mech. You also have discrepancies from clan to IS tech levels.

To be honest, I find your Riflemen build looking a little anemic. I did a little tinkering on Smurfy, and I was able to place 4 MGs and 4 LLs (which risk of Ghost heat if you where not careful). For more punch, 2 LPLs, 2 MLs and 4 MGs possibly would be a better step to avoid Ghost Heat.

I mean, by all means play what you want, but your Riflemen has almost 2 full tons (once you remove just 2 points of armor) that isn't being used. You have a ton of heat sinks, or more like 7 tons, that you honestly just don't really need. You also have a lot of MG ammo, at least from my experience with MG ammo consumption. You can even shrink up the engine size for more weapons, as a few less KPH really wont effect you too much.

As I said though, your mech, your build. I'm not going to tell you how you should play it. If it works for you, by all means use it.


As for the other players, you are playing currently at a dead time. There are fewer players on, so MM is harder pressed to find and create balanced matches. You very well could be dropping with low skilled players, or high skill, or even a broad mix of skill levels within the same match.

I also would prefer not to look at it as "kill steal", but as "kill secured". You are a team after all, and dropping an enemy mech, even a few seconds faster, is normally a good thing. If anything, look at your number of assists and even Kill Most Damage Dealt counts. Work as a team. As a team, you also should be looking out for others and not as much for personal glory (though we all wish to leave an impression within a match to show we did well on our own). It doesn't matter if you dropped that Atlas, or if a teammate did just before you could. It's one less enemy you need to worry about.

[Ximenetto]

Tesunie, on 10 December 2016 - 10:42 PM, said:

You have mashed a 50 ton payload into a 60 ton mech. You also have discrepancies from clan to IS tech levels.

To be honest, I find your Riflemen build looking a little anemic. I did a little tinkering on Smurfy, and I was able to place 4 MGs and 4 LLs (which risk of Ghost heat if you where not careful). For more punch, 2 LPLs, 2 MLs and 4 MGs possibly would be a better step to avoid Ghost Heat.

I mean, by all means play what you want, but your Riflemen has almost 2 full tons (once you remove just 2 points of armor) that isn't being used. You have a ton of heat sinks, or more like 7 tons, that you honestly just don't really need. You also have a lot of MG ammo, at least from my experience with MG ammo consumption. You can even shrink up the engine size for more weapons, as a few less KPH really wont effect you too much.

As I said though, your mech, your build. I'm not going to tell you how you should play it. If it works for you, by all means use it.


As for the other players, you are playing currently at a dead time. There are fewer players on, so MM is harder pressed to find and create balanced matches. You very well could be dropping with low skilled players, or high skill, or even a broad mix of skill levels within the same match.

I also would prefer not to look at it as "kill steal", but as "kill secured". You are a team after all, and dropping an enemy mech, even a few seconds faster, is normally a good thing. If anything, look at your number of assists and even Kill Most Damage Dealt counts. Work as a team. As a team, you also should be looking out for others and not as much for personal glory (though we all wish to leave an impression within a match to show we did well on our own). It doesn't matter if you dropped that Atlas, or if a teammate did just before you could. It's one less enemy you need to worry about.

Well,every loadout i make for my mechs,i priorize cooling and DPS than a lot of firepower and a lot of heat. It works for me very well.

And about night PUGs,maybe u have reason and i found low skill players on my team,the proff is that a GREAT STALKER on my team on one of those night PUGs hides back a light mech and only firing lasers,when i far knew that had LRMs. We lose of course.

And another point that u have reason is the "kill secured" instead of "kill stolen" but i need titles and GXP that only a good kills offer me,specially on my starts.

[Tarogato]

Ximenetto, on 10 December 2016 - 11:00 PM, said:

Well,every loadout i make for my mechs,i priorize cooling and DPS than a lot of firepower and a lot of heat. It works for me very well.

And about night PUGs,maybe u have reason and i found low skill players on my team,the proff is that a GREAT STALKER on my team on one of those night PUGs hides back a light mech and only firing lasers,when i far knew that had LRMs. We lose of course.

And another point that u have reason is the "kill secured" instead of "kill stolen" but i need titles and GXP that only a good kills offer me,specially on my starts.

If you managed to kill any mechs using a Rifleman with only 4 medium lasers and machine guns... then you were just very lucky. Because those weapons are something you could reasonably fit on a 25-ton mech.

• For four machine guns, use 1.0 to 1.5 tons of ammo. You have four tons loaded, which is unnecessary. You'll never use that much ammo with four machine guns if you're using them optimally.
  
• In a Rifleman, always use an XL engine. If you use a STD engine, you won't be able to dish out enough damage to people with other players who do use XL engines.
  
• Take almost all of your armour off the back and put it on the front, where most enemies will be shooting you from.
  
• Gut your medium lasers and see if there's something bigger that you can fit.

If you've done the above, you have a template that looks like this: http://mwo.smurfy-ne...16842b268fcd50e

See what you can do with those 20 tons. I personally would choose four large lasers, which fit like this: http://mwo.smurfy-ne...260913cd9853403

You could also do three large pulse, like this: http://mwo.smurfy-ne...245959a25c8c2f1




But really, you shouldn't be using machine guns. If you could run six machine guns to back up some laservomit, I could buy it. But you can only run a maximum of four MGs, so just don't bother. Mount some real ballistics instead.

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...d732bae66c57867

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...7be2744dbc0529b

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...dd30704fb107802

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...014fca84dd600b4

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...b9b5621feb6bf08

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...9ab01105306a0a4



If you really absolutely must run a STD engine for whatever reason that you think it is necessary (it's not), then you could run something like this: http://mwo.smurfy-ne...18658204bf1aa2f

or maybe something like this: http://mwo.smurfy-ne...b4dd4a22deae2e1

---

Okay, now that the Rifleman is dealt with, let's take a look at that Nova you shared. 4 small pulse, four MGs, too much MG ammo, and some AMS ammo with no AMS system.

Personally, I would recommend one of these three builds, pick which one appeals to you the most:

12 SPL: http://mwo.smurfy-ne...f802cb70d9cae13

9 SPL with extra heatsinks: http://mwo.smurfy-ne...6bed3af157bb371

9 SPL 4 MG: http://mwo.smurfy-ne...79abe7379ef8575




And in case you need any qualifications before you take my advice, I just had this match tonight after trying out the 9 SPL 4 MG build myself: http://i.imgur.com/GzI5SMN.png

=D

[SilentScreamer]

Ximenetto, on 10 December 2016 - 09:59 PM, said:

So,maybe i have bad luck and i think that night PUGs have bad players.

Hopefully on the light of the day i find better teammates.

Since mech builds and tactics have already been discussed I will simply add this:

Yes, the general player population differs in MWO:

Time - During "night" hours when population is low the matchmaker is more likely to mix Tiers, a long wait to get a match is a good indicator that you will see mixed tiers in match.

Server- If your internet connection is powerful enough try different servers. I have noticed more communication/teamwork on the Euro server than on North America and Oceanic.

Day of the week - Weekends, especially during events have a much wider variety of players. There are more casual players online so you may see an increase in non-meta builds.

My advice, stay flexible. If you notice a pattern, adjust to it. You mentioned terra therma was voted ss map multiple times. Maybe bring a different mech if your current one does not perform as well as you want. Or, if possible, change the time of day or server when you log on for a match.

[Tarl Cabot]

Quote

I don't know what happen,i usually kill from 2 to 4 mechs on a PUG,but this night i killed 1 mech and with luck. Every other kills has been stealed from me,counting to the teammate. But half all PUGs loss.

https://mwomercs.com...i-fail-at-pugs/

This is your second or third account, isn't it? If it is, you already have experience under your belt from your previous account. With that experience, it also means you generally do much better and should be scoring better vs actual new players who may have only a few or no games under their belt, which also means you are being moved through the TIERS faster, after starting as a new account in Tier 5. So you are moving up the tiers with experienced players. You have left GOD mode and now reside in the lands of mortals

PS, that is why your current account name is still baby blue, you have not finished your 25 drops w/Cadet bonus and can only post in the Newbie forum.

Edited by Tarl Cabot, 11 December 2016 - 07:35 AM.

[Rogue Jedi]

Ximenetto, on 10 December 2016 - 09:59 PM, said:

I don't know what happen,i usually kill from 2 to 4 mechs on a PUG,but this night i killed 1 mech and with luck. Every other kills has been stealed from me,counting to the teammate. But half all PUGs loss.

So,maybe i have bad luck and i think that night PUGs have bad players. All on my team die so quick and players are so weird,because they select hot maps like terra therma and so. The best maps are polar highlands for example or frozen city. They have 0% increased hot on ur mech.

Also,maybe the IS mechs are worse on firepower,because i do the same work with the Rifleman C as the Nova S and i can't kill what i want.

Here is my build of Rifleman C,my first builded mech on this account:

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...4caf6fbd725aee8

Here is my last account (Warden Xim) first builded mech,the Nova S:

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...056a4484115c9e8

I know that small pulse lasers can be lethal,but i think that médium lasers aren't that bad.

But the proff was this night,i only killed 2 mech on 10 matches. But because teammates steals my kills. I thought that machine-guns are the best for shred internals,but when this occurss,a guy with large laser/pulse laser appears and steal my kill.

It was very frustrating.

Hopefully on the light of the day i find better teammates.

it is not often I say this but those Mechs are way too cool, it should be almost impossible to overheat ether of them with more than a minutes continuous firing required to overheat, but the downside of that is that you will be outgunned by Mechs about half you size which will also have almost twice your speed and agility.

it is not possible to steal kills in a team game, you should be focus firing with the team to take down Mechs, so it is random luck who gets the kills.
MGs are great for shreading internals, but in my experiance you need 85kph+ for that to realy work and preferably 130+ to make the best use of them
the Nova is faster, more heavily armed, more agile, smaller, harder to hit, can jump high and in general better in every way than the Rifleman with that build.

my advise would be to drop a few heatsinks, upgrade the Med Lasers to MPLs and possibly loose a ton or 2 of MG ammo as I doubt you would use that much 1 game in 100 and if you are carrying unused ammo you are wasting tonage.

[Void Angel]

Yeah, I've seen more guns on a Jenner. Ditch the Machine Guns and all those superfluous heat sinks in favor of some kind of ballistic armament that actually uses all of your heavy Ballistic quirking, with either a 250 standard or (probably better) an XL.

As for your original question - player demographics do vary by time of day. So you're playing at 10pm EST, you'll be playing with a different mix of player skills than I will be at 1230pm PST. Playing late at night (for most applicable time zones) usually corresponds with a fall in average player skill. This will be shown in tactics and marksmanship, however, not map selection. Players selecting hot maps when you think the "best maps" are cold ones says more about your preferences and ability to adapt than their skill.

[BodakOfSseth]

Tesunie, on 10 December 2016 - 10:42 PM, said:

I also would prefer not to look at it as "kill steal", but as "kill secured". You are a team after all, and dropping an enemy mech, even a few seconds faster, is normally a good thing. If anything, look at your number of assists and even Kill Most Damage Dealt counts. Work as a team. As a team, you also should be looking out for others and not as much for personal glory (though we all wish to leave an impression within a match to show we did well on our own). It doesn't matter if you dropped that Atlas, or if a teammate did just before you could. It's one less enemy you need to worry about.

This. This. This.

too often I hear "Kill steal" bandied about and I'm like, "so? The Red Dorito is dead. Good Job. Next!"

It would be nice if the stat records actually showed KMDD counts, or even (gasp) all of the stats that end-of-match scores you on. Then we could actually look at a players whole record, not just the billboard numbers.

[Void Angel]

People talking seriously about kill stealing are usually bad players. Mitigating circumstances may exist, but the rule is proven by its exceptions.

[Ximenett]

Void Angel, on 11 December 2016 - 10:17 PM, said:

People talking seriously about kill stealing are usually bad players. Mitigating circumstances may exist, but the rule is proven by its exceptions.

And normally people that say those things are usually weird kiddos

Edited by Ximenett, 11 December 2016 - 11:39 PM.

[TooDumbToQuit]

Man, morning players suck....

[Blind Baku]

Tesunie, on 10 December 2016 - 10:42 PM, said:

You have mashed a 50 ton payload into a 60 ton mech. You also have discrepancies from clan to IS tech levels.

To be honest, I find your Riflemen build looking a little anemic. I did a little tinkering on Smurfy, and I was able to place 4 MGs and 4 LLs (which risk of Ghost heat if you where not careful). For more punch, 2 LPLs, 2 MLs and 4 MGs possibly would be a better step to avoid Ghost Heat.

I mean, by all means play what you want, but your Riflemen has almost 2 full tons (once you remove just 2 points of armor) that isn't being used. You have a ton of heat sinks, or more like 7 tons, that you honestly just don't really need. You also have a lot of MG ammo, at least from my experience with MG ammo consumption. You can even shrink up the engine size for more weapons, as a few less KPH really wont effect you too much.

As I said though, your mech, your build. I'm not going to tell you how you should play it. If it works for you, by all means use it.


As for the other players, you are playing currently at a dead time. There are fewer players on, so MM is harder pressed to find and create balanced matches. You very well could be dropping with low skilled players, or high skill, or even a broad mix of skill levels within the same match.

I also would prefer not to look at it as "kill steal", but as "kill secured". You are a team after all, and dropping an enemy mech, even a few seconds faster, is normally a good thing. If anything, look at your number of assists and even Kill Most Damage Dealt counts. Work as a team. As a team, you also should be looking out for others and not as much for personal glory (though we all wish to leave an impression within a match to show we did well on our own). It doesn't matter if you dropped that Atlas, or if a teammate did just before you could. It's one less enemy you need to worry about.

As said above, KMDDs/Solo Kills are worth note, Kills are superfluous unless there is a Kill Count event (past few have been KMDD so there is that too).

Your RFL build makes me sad. Play what you like, but know it is a very flawed build. If you need something with Crit seeking you could always do an off RLF-LK build with 2LXB10s + other stuff, but the 3C is not the best RFL to mimic that build on.

Tarogato posted some solid builds. I love running the 4AC2 (I up the engine and loose the MLs, add Firectrl macro for extra flavor if you're ok with macros), AC10 build is good fun too.

[Tesunie]

Blind Baku, on 12 December 2016 - 01:28 PM, said:

Tarogato posted some solid builds. I love running the 4AC2 (I up the engine and loose the MLs, add Firectrl macro for extra flavor if you're ok with macros), AC10 build is good fun too.

AC2s also have increased chances to crit too (last I knew). So, there is also that to consider.

[JC Daxion]

I get fine games at night.. but just like all times you can have bad streaks. I had to laugh as i am closing in on T2 now, and been playing assaults and getting good damage so the creep is going up..

so i swapped to lights the other night and started playing spiders.. I figured, good matches in a light, are going to push me up slower than an assault.. but then i went on a 2 hour winstreak.. Darn thing is about to pop t2.. and here i've done my best to keep with my t3 Bro's.

Point is, no time of day is more subject to bad or good.. its all kinda luck but more importantly what you bring to the match. I can see many times in our losses, that if i only did X instead of Y it would of been a win.


all that said, your rifleman build is just not good, and i am all about DPS builds. but the thing looks like a a blackjack build than a 60 tonner. If you want to run 4 machine guns on it that is fine, but swap to large pulse, or Large lasers. Lights can pack more DPS than that.. You are basically running a Clan adder build which is a 35 ton mech, and stuffing it into a 60 ton chassis.

But that said, most rifleman builds i see run AC2's or 5's..

[Jingseng]

It's always night somewhere.

[Horse Pryde]

Tesunie, on 10 December 2016 - 10:42 PM, said:

I also would prefer not to look at it as "kill steal", but as "kill secured". You are a team after all, and dropping an enemy mech, even a few seconds faster, is normally a good thing. If anything, look at your number of assists and even Kill Most Damage Dealt counts. Work as a team. As a team, you also should be looking out for others and not as much for personal glory (though we all wish to leave an impression within a match to show we did well on our own). It doesn't matter if you dropped that Atlas, or if a teammate did just before you could. It's one less enemy you need to worry about.

SO TRUE!
Needing to get every kill is what leads 6 mechs chasing one light that flanked and leaves the others on your team in a 6 on 11 match. Some times you are the lead guy on the team some times you are there to give up some armor so someone else can get the kill.

[NRP]

That's perhaps the biggest problem I see in solo play when my team gets rolled. One mech runs off on his own and gets killed. Then another one. Then another. Before long, the rest of us are hopelessly outnumbered when the enemy eventually pushes. I try to tell the team to get set up and be patient, but most of the time they don't listen.