122 replies to this topic

[no one]

El Bandito, on 14 December 2016 - 03:17 AM, said:

The balance we have currently is much better than what 10v12 could have brought. Much, much better.

Could be. ~The world may never know~. I will say that with all the disconnects I've gotten pretty used to fighting in matches at a 10 vs 12 disadvantage anyway. But hey, if we're going the bland homogeneous effectiveness leveling route though PGI may as well open up clan and IS tech for all chassis. Quirks are going away and lore died crying in a corner long ago so why not?

Edited by no one, 14 December 2016 - 10:33 AM.

[L3mming2]

Kmieciu, on 14 December 2016 - 01:07 AM, said:

Please do tell, which IS AC would you install?
AC20 for example won't fit on most omnimech, not even Night Gyr or Warhawk because of the fixed endo structure and ferro armor. Only a Dire Wolf and a Hellbringer have the space required.

How about AC10 that nobody ever uses unless the mech has heavy quirks? That weighs the same as C-Gauss and takes 1 slot more (so no way of doing 4xAC10 on a Kodiak)

If it was the other way around, I would swap IS UAC5 for Clan UAC10 on every IS mech I own. 1 slot smaller (LOL) and just 1 tonne heavier. A minor difference since 3 tonnes of UAC10 ammo deals the same damage as 4 tonnes of UAC5 ammo.

Imagine 3xC-UAC10 Jagermech or 4xC-UAC10 King Crab...

pleas stop i would give my left nut for those ...

[L3mming2]

Lily from animove, on 14 December 2016 - 04:44 AM, said:

can the ex members of MS pls go Is and show that it's not the tech deciding it. thx.




he said clanmechs, not clan omni mechs.

yes a good IS team drop can stomp a clan drop. this proves verry litle,
i have more ore eaqual k/d ratio's when i drop as IS vs clans as a pug,

however individual skill is not enough to counter the clan advantage, and IS vs CLAN pug drops are won way way more often by clans.

every time the clan win rate vs IS is way higher then 50% it was in the past and it is still the case now

(when i cheked yesterday then of the 40 matches shown 80% where won by clans..)

so ore all good units deliberatly join the clans, whit as goal to brake FW as fast as posible and make it deserted again, ore they join it cos it has better tech, ore the units are distibuted eaqual and the tech is making the difference...

IMO, its a combination of the last 2, clan tech is better and the good units know it and go clan to get a advantage..

i have the kodiaks/ night gry/ timber/ direwolf and dire wolf UV/ artic cheater/ stormcrow/ebonjag/ ....

and i know very well my personal gap in score when i take them out in comparison to my IS mechs.

IS has some mechs that clans cant match (in fun that is) but when the clans get the LCT IIC i probably defect for good.

[BLOOD WOLF]

W A R K H A N, on 13 December 2016 - 06:04 AM, said:

I didn't reach rank 20 for ghost bear and 17 for wolf by doing scout matches. The vast majority of matches were invasion. And most of them were losses to IS. Like it or not IS mechs aren't nearly as helpless as the forums would have you believe.

[L3mming2]

Van Hoven, on 14 December 2016 - 08:16 AM, said:

Well there is this http://mwo.smurfy-ne...25fc9c38ebab8dd 5 ac5 mauler
this http://mwo.smurfy-ne...4c13414dc245207 4 ultra ac 5 king crab
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...3c672dadd077a46 2 ac5 2 ultra ac5 black widow
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...8f6fb9bfaf58a03 3 ultra ac5 jaeger
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...dc0c7f8f6a3f7c4 4 ultra ac5 mauler
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...c581b56c626ccee 3 ac5 2 ppc cyclops
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...80e7c0162273b8e 2 ultra ac5 2 ppc mar

... to name a few



You dip your head out of cover for one shot then go back. if you never do this its easily understandable why you think clan acs are so good. If you cant return fire when shot at with clan acs same thing applies. And well... same thing with shoot twist shoot... yeah, just because you can say things that doesnt make them true, you know? And btw UAC5 has 1.66 cooldown. if you doubletap in the middle of the cooldown time its still ,83. Ok thats close. But why doubletap in the middle? If you dont know is weapons, why comment on them being subpar?

20 points of damage applied to at least 2 sections of the mech isnt much. and uac10s are only usable at stationary targets beyond 400m. Especially with the jam chances you really shouldnt double tap if the uac10s are your main weapon system.

to name 1 http://mwo.smurfy-ne...a3438f065789300

the one mech tu rule them all and invalidate the existence of all the onece u mentioned
(ah and the night gyr ofcorce if u dont want to take a assault, aa and the HBK IIC if u want a med..)

what u seem to ignore is that for the jager to take enough ammo
it only gets to go 10kph faster then the KDK3 with can bring way more ammo,

the time it takes for a jager to go from forward to reverse is way higer then the reload of a UAC5, so no unlike the clan UAC boats who can vomit out quite respectable alphas and retreat, IS realy cant do that..

and on your mention of 0.83...
the jager DD has CD quirks... so no not 0.83. and unlike the clan UAC's u cant double tap the IS UAC's right after the first tap. it only works after atleast a 3'd of the CD has past..

[C E Dwyer]

Oh look a clanboi v spheroid balance thread

Oh no they're, not, oh yes they are, not, are, not ,are.

[xe N on]

Not everything is about clan or IS tech. Hardpoints, shape and tonnage also plays an important role.

The KDK-3 is not only that good because it is a battlemech with freely configurable clan tech. It comes with best hardpoint configuration: high hardpoint location, only 50% ballistics and 50% laser. In addition it comes with shield arms.

Clan battletech clearly needs some sort of drawback, as already in place for the HGN-IIC and the ON1-IIC. Both are not in particular great despite coming with clan tech.

Edited by xe N on, 14 December 2016 - 12:35 PM.

[Vincent Quatermain]

BCAW, on 12 December 2016 - 08:04 PM, said:

All the mechs I own are Clan.

Then how can you know enough to weigh in on this conversation? IS tech is fine, people just have no guts and try to play peek-and-poke. The Clans will win that fight every time.

Novakaine, on 13 December 2016 - 03:28 PM, said:

But dammit this ongoing problem needs to be addressed in the only way possible.
Two Clan stars, or Binary vs. One IS Battlemech Company.

Sadly, no. The real issue with play balance is a known problem with the MWO playerbase. If you want to form a 12-man of the most useless glue-eating grognards, who have played this game for years and still suck donkey balls, there is a sure-fire strategy to achieve that goal:

Just start up an IS Loyalist unit.


The fact remains that the tech gap is so small that it only matters if you have two teams with equal levels of coordination, and equal levels of player skill, both in a match and in the mechlab. Only then will Clan tech make the decisive difference. This happens so infrequently in Faction Play that I can't even think of an FP match where I know for sure the tech made the difference.

People care less about this in QP, because you can mix techs together. The restricted tech in FP basically gives every scrub in MWO a ready-made excuse for failure.

[El Bandito]

no one, on 14 December 2016 - 10:33 AM, said:

Quirks are going away and lore died crying in a corner long ago so why not?

Quirks are not going away. Russ confirmed that most mechs will retain stats boost.

Vincent Quatermain, on 14 December 2016 - 12:37 PM, said:

Sadly, no. The real issue with play balance is a known problem with the MWO playerbase. If you want to form a 12-man of the most useless glue-eating grognards, who have played this game for years and still suck donkey balls, there is a sure-fire strategy to achieve that goal:

Just start up an IS Loyalist unit.

So IS pilots are automatically worse than Clan pilots? Wonderful logic you got there.

Vincent Quatermain, on 14 December 2016 - 12:37 PM, said:

The fact remains that the tech gap is so small that it only matters if you have two teams with equal levels of coordination, and equal levels of player skill, both in a match and in the mechlab. Only then will Clan tech make the decisive difference. This happens so infrequently in Faction Play that I can't even think of an FP match where I know for sure the tech made the difference.

People care less about this in QP, because you can mix techs together. The restricted tech in FP basically gives every scrub in MWO a ready-made excuse for failure.

Since Clan tech makes decisive difference in an even team, Clanners have no excuse to whine when people ask for balance.

Edited by El Bandito, 14 December 2016 - 06:40 PM.

[Requiemking]

El Bandito, on 14 December 2016 - 06:36 PM, said:

Quirks are not going away. Russ confirmed that most mechs will retain stats boost.




So IS pilots are automatically worse than Clan pilots? Wonderful logic you got there.




Since Clan tech makes decisive difference in an even team, Clanners have no excuse to whine when people ask for balance.

How would we know? Every time one of the major units shifts from one side to the other, all the major units follow them, so we never get the kind of scenario to prove whether Clan tech truly is superior or not.

[El Bandito]

Requiemking, on 14 December 2016 - 06:55 PM, said:

How would we know? Every time one of the major units shifts from one side to the other, all the major units follow them, so we never get the kind of scenario to prove whether Clan tech truly is superior or not.

I saw the world championship. I participated in the CWX 1v1 tourney. I saw the overwhelming majority of the top choices were Clan mechs, despite the fact IS mechs have quirks. Now there must be a reason for that.

[Vincent Quatermain]

El Bandito, on 14 December 2016 - 06:36 PM, said:

Since Clan tech makes decisive difference in an even team, Clanners have no excuse to whine when people ask for balance.

Yes, but since FP has no matchmaking, even teams only happen once in a blue moon -- and when they do, defender advantage can trump the tech differences even then. I'm not saying there might not be some tuning to do, but anyone not playing IS in FP because "Clans are too strong" is just making excuses.

The imbalance in FP right now is due to all the big units going Clan because the MAD-IIC dropped this week, but that should right itself in about a week.

[Requiemking]

Vincent Quatermain, on 14 December 2016 - 07:09 PM, said:

Yes, but since FP has no matchmaking, even teams only happen once in a blue moon -- and when they do, defender advantage can trump the tech differences even then. I'm not saying there might not be some tuning to do, but anyone not playing IS in FP because "Clans are too strong" is just making excuses.

The imbalance in FP right now is due to all the big units going Clan because the MAD-IIC dropped this week, but that should right itself in about a week.

No it won't. It never does. Everywhere the big units go, the others follow. Why? Because they don't want to fight each other.

[NeoMaddy]

All these matches aren't just premade teams vs. PUGs. The fact that every clan faction wins more than they lose, and every major IS house loses more than they win says something. FRR is holding on to a positive win ratio, I know it's attracted a lot of the IS talent.

I don't think Clan Tech is necessarily broken, but I think that the gestalt of the meta in Community Warfare favors clans to an exceptional degree. Furthermore, while the gap between IS and Clan isn't that far off in Quick Play where tech is mixed, the exceptionality of a select few chassis on the Clan side ensure that those chassis are overwhelmingly representative of what you see in Community Warfare. What are the strongest mechs in each class (feel free to disagree with me, these are based on my own experience playing both IS and Clan)?

Light: Arctic Cheetah
Medium: Stormcrow, Huntsman, Hunchback IIC
Heavy: Timberwolf, Night Gyr, Mad Dog
Assault: Kodiak

Notice a trend here? I'm not arguing that all clan mechs are superior, only that the ones that are superior blow their competition out of the water. And when it's virtually ONLY those mechs against the best the IS has to offer... it's simply not a fair contest to have equal numbers of IS mechs fight Clan mechs. That's like fish in a barrel.

I'm a fairly new player, exactly 1200 games under my belt at the time of this writing, starting in October, so my only frame of reference is the current meta. It limits my history, but it also doesn't bias me with prior experience.

tl;dr: Clan mechs (for the most part), aren't broken, but the balance in CW is.

[Natred]

I want complete transparency when it comes to Mechs, Including individual health. How much damage the armor on the component can take before being breached. Time it take for heat dissipation to begin after firing weapon. EVERYTHING

Bunch of my unit mates have noticed that even though the clan heat sink got "buffed" clan mechs are more prone to be hot then normal. Buff something then shadow nerfing stuff is not cool. Say it with me, COMPLETE TRANSPARENCY.

Tired of Inner Sphere mechs seeming like they take a ton more damage then they should on consistent basis.

Edited by Natred, 14 December 2016 - 07:46 PM.

[Requiemking]

El Bandito, on 14 December 2016 - 07:03 PM, said:

I saw the world championship. I participated in the CWX 1v1 tourney. I saw the overwhelming majority of the top choices were Clan mechs, despite the fact IS mechs have quirks. Now there must be a reason for that.

The tourney client was also stuck in an outdated build, a build from before the rescale.

[El Bandito]

Requiemking, on 14 December 2016 - 07:52 PM, said:

The tourney client was also stuck in an outdated build, a build from before the rescale.

Rescale screwed IS more than Clans. Firestarters are all but extinct. Warhammer and Black Knight got bigger.

Edited by El Bandito, 14 December 2016 - 07:59 PM.

[Jman5]

Here's an interesting tidbit. I added up all the wins during this current attack phase. At present count 132 FP matches have been played in the last few hours.

Clans have won 70% of the matches.

[Lily from animove]

NeoMaddy, on 14 December 2016 - 07:36 PM, said:

All these matches aren't just premade teams vs. PUGs. The fact that every clan faction wins more than they lose, and every major IS house loses more than they win says something. FRR is holding on to a positive win ratio, I know it's attracted a lot of the IS talent.

I don't think Clan Tech is necessarily broken, but I think that the gestalt of the meta in Community Warfare favors clans to an exceptional degree. Furthermore, while the gap between IS and Clan isn't that far off in Quick Play where tech is mixed, the exceptionality of a select few chassis on the Clan side ensure that those chassis are overwhelmingly representative of what you see in Community Warfare. What are the strongest mechs in each class (feel free to disagree with me, these are based on my own experience playing both IS and Clan)?

Light: Arctic Cheetah
Medium: Stormcrow, Huntsman, Hunchback IIC
Heavy: Timberwolf, Night Gyr, Mad Dog
Assault: Kodiak

Notice a trend here? I'm not arguing that all clan mechs are superior, only that the ones that are superior blow their competition out of the water. And when it's virtually ONLY those mechs against the best the IS has to offer... it's simply not a fair contest to have equal numbers of IS mechs fight Clan mechs. That's like fish in a barrel.

I'm a fairly new player, exactly 1200 games under my belt at the time of this writing, starting in October, so my only frame of reference is the current meta. It limits my history, but it also doesn't bias me with prior experience.

tl;dr: Clan mechs (for the most part), aren't broken, but the balance in CW is.

MDD as strongets heavy? lol, what about the hellbringer? thtas surely a way better mech than the MDD.

Edited by Lily from animove, 15 December 2016 - 05:43 AM.

[Elessar]

Natred, on 14 December 2016 - 07:45 PM, said:

...
Tired of Inner Sphere mechs seeming like they take a ton more damage then they should on consistent basis.

Perhaps that is the effect of many IS mechs sporting standard engines instead of XL ones,meaning that (unlike their IS XL engine brethren) they don't immediately get destroyed when a side torso is destroyed.(but also meaning that they can equip much less weapons than them)
Or that they carry less weapons that require ammunition (as CASE is a rarity in IS mechs (after all it takes 1 internal slot and 0.5 tons for each location that is equipped with one) that means that a single crit to the ammo can mean the end of an IS mech (thanks to damage propagation))

So, IS Mechs with no XL engine and few or no Ammo bins may de facto look unnaturally durable to a clanner