122 replies to this topic

[Monkey Lover]

In hour or so when IS players stop playing the clans move into scouting it will be maxed out too GGclose PGI thanks.

[SlyJJ]

Clan is "easy" mode for MWO. I can appreciate some that wish to have a discussion about it, but many are willfully ignorant- you put the facts in their face and they just make lots of noise until it goes away. I mean its just a coincidence that the top units all went Clan, right? And one of the top units that ran as merc was annihlated when it went IS for 2 weeks...

I wouldnt want to gve up such an edge if I had it too. Theres also ego-everyone wants to think they're a great pilot, so of course they'd like to think their high scores and successare because of their great piloting skill. Now of course one can actually be a skilled pilot and also be a clanner- Im just pointing out the reasons why the willfully igorant are as such. Any time I feel like dropping 1000 damage in a match I just go with a clan mech.

We all know they've got a signifiant advantage, but I'd be willing to let it stay that way in favor of Novakaines suggestion

[Wecx]

BluefireMW, on 13 December 2016 - 03:03 PM, said:

You don't play the same game as i do. It's just nice, but nothing compared to a quirked thunderbolt with 3 quirked Large Pulse.

Wah, a Thunderbolt really?

[Y E O N N E]

The TDR-9SE is better off with a pair of ER PPC and imitating the Summoner these days, tbqh.

[Karl Streiger]

BluefireMW, on 13 December 2016 - 03:03 PM, said:

You don't play the same game as i do. It's just nice, but nothing compared to a quirked thunderbolt with 3 quirked Large Pulse.

Oh now were you mentioned it.

Once, it must have been Spring, but there were not leafs on the dead and burned threes. There was also no grass left but at least the sun was shining.
I and my Thunderbolt huddled in a trench keeping heads down and PPCs and LRMs crossed overhead.
Suddenly a Vulture and a Loki jumped into the same trench. Both their uniforms were tattered and there rifles full of mud.
First nobody did move than we did drank some tee and then it was time again for the grim business of our job.
So while both reached for their long rifles - I grapped my 3 LPL TrenchKnife and eviscerate the MadDog. In a wild swing the rifle but of the Loki hit me but it was not enough from stoping me to dug my knife up to the handle in his chest.

moral of the story: don't bring a rifle into a knife fight

[RestosIII]

Monkey Lover, on 13 December 2016 - 07:10 PM, said:

In hour or so when IS players stop playing the clans move into scouting it will be maxed out too GGclose PGI thanks.

The hell.are you IS boys.doing? Are you trying to provide an accurate historical recreation of the invasion? I know you can do better than that!

[visionGT4]

visionGT4 said:

This thing is the poster boy for clan tech superiority. Nothing on the IS side comes close in terms of firepower, mobility and protection.

For kicks I replicated the same configuration I use on the 3R. 2xuac5, 2xLL & 2xML + same ammo and heatsinks with the equivalent clan tech (didn't bother reducing armor).

the IIC comes in at 11 tons under the IS equivalent with superior weapon performance, protection and equal mobility

sh1t really has gone full ret4rd up in here.


edit: make that 15tons had to much ammo

because I'm cool, quoting myself from one of the MAD-IIc threads.


and declaring /thread - cos no mater how much our disingenuous inbred cousins from beyond the periphery like to pretend... Clan tech sh1ts all over anything IS can field.

[Sedmeister]

I don't often contribute to forums but I read quite a bit.

I was thinking about posting something today but then I noticed that the drop deck tonnage for FW was changed today as part of the FW update. This was actually one of the suggestions I was going to make in a post on the matter.

The challenge with MWO is the coming together of lore and MWO as a FPS.

In lore, clan mechs are op. The challenge is trying to translate that dimension of the lore into a FPS. 48 x 48 in MWO FW clan v IS is challenging for IS atm. PGI have had to do all sorts of interesting things (read arcane nerfs) to try and balance what in lore is unbalanced. It is a difficult problem to solve (ie balancing the imbalance of the lore with MWO players desire for some kind of equity).

So I found myself thinking today, strip the quirk system, let the KDK3 be the uber mech of the game and let all of the other clan mechs be free to be more powerful than their IS counterparts (as per the lore) and seek to create equity in the MWO FPS land by giving IS an advantage in either tonnage or numbers of mechs (ie: 11 clan v 12 IS or in FW a tonnage advantage).

Would that be a way of merging lore and FPS balance?

So I was cautiously excited when I noticed in my first FW drop with the updated client that IS has a 15 ton advantage in drop deck allocation.

With caution, I think that this is a step in the right direction in terms of solving the conundrum. It may take some testing to get it right, but I say use this kind of thinking to solve the problem of balance rather than arbitrary nerfing.

[El Bandito]

Sedmeister, on 14 December 2016 - 12:34 AM, said:

So I found myself thinking today, strip the quirk system, let the KDK3 be the uber mech of the game and let all of the other clan mechs be free to be more powerful than their IS counterparts (as per the lore) and seek to create equity in the MWO FPS land by giving IS an advantage in either tonnage or numbers of mechs (ie: 11 clan v 12 IS or in FW a tonnage advantage).

Would that be a way of merging lore and FPS balance?

Long story short: It was proposed may times but people argued that such way of balancing has the nasty effect of drawing the majority of the players to the "1337 side" (Clans), thus deemed detrimental to player population balance.

[Kmieciu]

Pariah Devalis, on 13 December 2016 - 07:55 AM, said:

If I could install IS style single slug ACs on my Clan mechs, I absolutely would.

Please do tell, which IS AC would you install?
AC20 for example won't fit on most omnimech, not even Night Gyr or Warhawk because of the fixed endo structure and ferro armor. Only a Dire Wolf and a Hellbringer have the space required.

How about AC10 that nobody ever uses unless the mech has heavy quirks? That weighs the same as C-Gauss and takes 1 slot more (so no way of doing 4xAC10 on a Kodiak)

If it was the other way around, I would swap IS UAC5 for Clan UAC10 on every IS mech I own. 1 slot smaller (LOL) and just 1 tonne heavier. A minor difference since 3 tonnes of UAC10 ammo deals the same damage as 4 tonnes of UAC5 ammo.

Imagine 3xC-UAC10 Jagermech or 4xC-UAC10 King Crab...

Edited by Kmieciu, 14 December 2016 - 01:11 AM.

[Averen]

Kmieciu, on 14 December 2016 - 01:07 AM, said:

Please do tell, which IS AC would you install?
AC20 for example won't fit on most omnimech, not even Night Gyr or Warhawk because of the fixed endo structure and ferro armor. Only a Dire Wolf and a Hellbringer have the space required.

How about AC10 that nobody ever uses unless the mech has heavy quirks? That weighs the same as C-Gauss and takes 1 slot more (so no way of doing 4xAC10 on a Kodiak)


If it was the other way around, I would swap IS UAC5 for Clan UAC10 on every IS mech I own. 1 slot smaller (LOL) and just 1 tonne heavier. A minor difference since 3 tonnes of UAC10 ammo deals the same damage as 4 tonnes of UAC5 ammo.

Imagine 3xC-UAC10 Jagermech or 4xC-UAC10 King Crab...

Haha, a tripple UAC10 jagger would be sick.

People who say IS AC's are better by design have no clue what they are talking about, just reurgitating some old excuses. Only the AC20 is good but not very versatile+expensive, and the (U)AC5 is already a DPS weapon, so the single slug makes hardly a difference.

Quirks make DPS weapons even more favorable.

Edited by Averen, 14 December 2016 - 07:27 AM.

[Karl Streiger]

well 4 AC10 on a Cerberus or Annihilator on the other hand would be a thing.

[no one]

El Bandito, on 14 December 2016 - 01:05 AM, said:

Long story short: It was proposed may times but people argued that such way of balancing has the nasty effect of drawing the majority of the players to the "1337 side" (Clans), thus deemed detrimental to player population balance.

Which is and has always been a load of hellhorsehockey. Perfect symmetrical balance is never going to happen and every attempt to achieve it bludgeons the game further and further into bland mediocrity. You'll always have your Kodiaks and your Zeuses, your cheetahs and your firestarters, your Novas and your Vindicators. . .
and Urbs will always reign supreme.

Edited by no one, 14 December 2016 - 02:36 AM.

[Karl Streiger]

no one, on 14 December 2016 - 02:35 AM, said:

Which is and has always been a load of hellhorsehockey. Perfect symmetrical balance is never going to happen and every attempt to achieve it bludgeons the game further and further into bland mediocrity. You'll always have your Kodiaks and your Zeuses, your cheetahs and your firestarters, your Novas and your Vindicators. . .
and Urbs will always reign supreme.

TT got the BV for it - and we have tonnage (didn't you know the Gargoyle is superior to the TImberWolf)

Further MM should rather ignore the player and be more selective on the Mech

[Appogee]

I have long wondered why Clan geneticists didn't weed out the "perpetual whining about IS Mechs" from the Clan gene pools.

Then I realised that "perpetually claiming to be victims" is a desirable evolutionary trait for them.

If the sheer weight of Clanner whining convinces the balance overlords to ignore evidence - such as the weight and range superiority of Clan equipment, superior XL engines, comp teams almost exclusively using Clan Mechs, both Tukkyid events won by the Clans, last night's contested planets all won by Clans - then they can maintain their tech dominance.

Makes perfect sense

Edited by Appogee, 14 December 2016 - 03:09 AM.

[El Bandito]

no one, on 14 December 2016 - 02:35 AM, said:

Which is and has always been a load of hellhorsehockey. Perfect symmetrical balance is never going to happen and every attempt to achieve it bludgeons the game further and further into bland mediocrity. You'll always have your Kodiaks and your Zeuses, your cheetahs and your firestarters, your Novas and your Vindicators. . .
and Urbs will always reign supreme.

The balance we have currently is much better than what 10v12 could have brought. Much, much better.

[Sedmeister]

El Bandito, on 14 December 2016 - 01:05 AM, said:

Long story short: It was proposed may times but people argued that such way of balancing has the nasty effect of drawing the majority of the players to the "1337 side" (Clans), thus deemed detrimental to player population balance.

Hey El Bandito, I am not sure I follow you. What do you mean when you say "such way of balancing has the nasty effect of drawing the majority of players to the "1337 side""?

[El Bandito]

Sedmeister, on 14 December 2016 - 03:21 AM, said:

Hey El Bandito, I am not sure I follow you. What do you mean when you say "such way of balancing has the nasty effect of drawing the majority of players to the "1337 side""?

Under 10 v 12 system, Clans will have superior tech (far better than the superior tech they have now) over the IS in exchange for less numbers per team. Which means individual Clan pilot will earn better match score and kills on average than the IS pilot. Since stats whoring and e-peening is a thing, the majority of the player base will opt to join the Clan side to pad their stats and to enjoy superior tech. Which means Clan side will have the majority of the playerbase.

[Lily from animove]

can the ex members of MS pls go Is and show that it's not the tech deciding it. thx.

Kmieciu, on 14 December 2016 - 01:07 AM, said:

Please do tell, which IS AC would you install?
AC20 for example won't fit on most omnimech, not even Night Gyr or Warhawk because of the fixed endo structure and ferro armor. Only a Dire Wolf and a Hellbringer have the space required.

How about AC10 that nobody ever uses unless the mech has heavy quirks? That weighs the same as C-Gauss and takes 1 slot more (so no way of doing 4xAC10 on a Kodiak)

If it was the other way around, I would swap IS UAC5 for Clan UAC10 on every IS mech I own. 1 slot smaller (LOL) and just 1 tonne heavier. A minor difference since 3 tonnes of UAC10 ammo deals the same damage as 4 tonnes of UAC5 ammo.

Imagine 3xC-UAC10 Jagermech or 4xC-UAC10 King Crab...

he said clanmechs, not clan omni mechs.

Edited by Lily from animove, 14 December 2016 - 04:45 AM.

[Willard Phule]

El Bandito, on 14 December 2016 - 03:29 AM, said:

Under 10 v 12 system, Clans will have superior tech (far better than the superior tech they have now) over the IS in exchange for less numbers per team. Which means individual Clan pilot will earn better match score and kills on average than the IS pilot. Since stats whoring and e-peening is a thing, the majority of the player base will opt to join the Clan side to pad their stats and to enjoy superior tech. Which means Clan side will have the majority of the playerbase.

You know....if they separated Clan from IS in the solo queue, that's pretty much what you'd see. Lots of 10v12 matches.

Why? Because, without a matchmaker, you're almost guaranteed to have at least 2 people per team that either suicide, disconnect or blunder about with their zoomed steering wheeled mechs, rendering them useless.