176 replies to this topic

[Zergling]

Sorry guys, but the Summoner is stupidly OP right now, and it honestly needs nerfs for the good of the game. Maybe it is entirely due to the loyalty hardpoints, but something should be done.


Here's the stats I (a fairly mediocre player) pulled off in it, 100% solo queue:


Both variants combined, that is 100 battles, 66 wins, 33 losses (2.00 W/L, 66.67% W/R), 145 kills, 43 deaths (3.37 K/D, 1.45 Kills/Battle), 614 damage/battle.


Here's my stats from play in October, up until I mastered it:


Combined, that is 58 battles, 36 wins, 21 losses (1.71 W/L, 63.16% W/R), 64 kills, 27 deaths (2.37 K/D, 1.10 Kills/Battle), 523 damage/battle.


The rest of the battles have been in December (didn't play it at all in November), which means for December I had the following stats:

42 battles, 30 wins, 12 losses (2.50 W/L, 71.43% W/R), 81 kills, 16 deaths (5.06 K/D, 1.93 Kills/Battle), 739 damage/battle.
And my average match score for those 42 battles was a ridiculous 451.

So my performance is only going up further as I play the mech, which combined with 100 battles means luck hasn't produced these results.


And for comparison, here's my stats in the Timber Wolf:


Combined, that is 59 battles, 31 wins, 28 losses (1.11 W/L, 52.54% W/R), 66 kills, 38 deaths (1.74 K/D, 1.12 Kills/Battle) and 443 damage/battle.

If the Timber Wolf is regarded as a good mech, then the Summoner is absurdly OP.


What nerfs could be done to the Summoner? I suggest reducing the ER PPC quirks, as the mech is only incredibly strong with the dual ER PPC build.
Removing the 30% ER PPC velocity from the Prime and M right arm omnipods would be a good start.

EDIT: following Ghogiel's idea, a superior nerf would be to instead move the Prime and M right arm ER PPC quirks to 8 set bonuses.
This nerfs the dual ER PPC in high torso hardpoint builds, without nerfing the single ER PPC builds, or other Summoner builds like laser or SRM vomit.

Edited by Zergling, 12 December 2016 - 04:19 PM.

[cazidin]

No.

[Bombast]

Should probably find other Summoner users to compare your stats to before making such a grand claim. Who knows, maybe you're just getting better? You're a bit above 'mediocre,' after all, even outside of the heavy weight range.

Edited by Bombast, 12 December 2016 - 03:46 PM.

[Angel of Annihilation]

And another problem is probably the vast majority of us don't have access to the Loyalty Mechs that give the Summoner the hard points it needs to actually be a good mech. I would absolutely re-buy a Summoner if you could buy the Loyalty Mech Side Torsos and get those two high mounted Energy hardpoints. Unfortunately since they aren't available, most of us only have access to the underpowered POS version of the Summoner.

[Ghogiel]

Yep it's a bit OP.

It doesn't need nerfs. All it needs is the quirks tied to the 8 set and all the issues with it will be gone completely

[Lukoi Banacek]

You demonstrably showing improvement in a chassis recently improved by PGI isnt really an example of it being OP. One potential indicator maybe, but certainly no more than that.

I average less damage per match in my Summoners than you (but imo, need less damage per kill due the PPFLD build I run on it) but score more damage per variant in all of my HBRs than you do. That doesnt mean the HBR is OP.

Summoners are making a comeback in class restricted league play but they still arent used as the heavy by a long stretch in unrestricted play. They are definitely stronger and competitive now but OP? Doesnt seem like it.

[RestosIII]

Please, for the love of Kerensky, don't nerf an entire chassis because of its high mounted loyalty brethren. Piloting a suckonner outside of the PPC nipple variants is still difficult, and I'd really prefer it to not become even worse.

[Otto Cannon]

There was a time when I thought this thread would never come.

[Zergling]

Lukoi Banacek, on 12 December 2016 - 03:58 PM, said:

You demonstrably showing improvement in a chassis recently improved by PGI isnt really an example of it being OP. One potential indicator maybe, but certainly no more than that.

The Summoner hasn't been improved since October; it was actually nerfed, with the D omnipods losing 5% energy cooldown in exchange for 5% energy range.
The dual ER PPC build with loyalty hardpoints ran with the D left arm, so it lost 5% CD.

Ghogiel, on 12 December 2016 - 03:57 PM, said:

All it needs is the quirks tied to the 8 set and all the issues with it will be gone completely

Yeah, that's actually a really good idea.

Instead of nerfing the ER PPC quirks on the Prime and M right arm, move them to 8 set.
Those variants get to keep the quirked ER PPC, while the dual ER PPC in high nipple hardpoints build is nerfed (although the M would be able to run with one ER PPC in high nipple, but with the other in the arm it would still be a nerf).

RestosIII, on 12 December 2016 - 04:00 PM, said:

Please, for the love of Kerensky, don't nerf an entire chassis because of its high mounted loyalty brethren. Piloting a suckonner outside of the PPC nipple variants is still difficult, and I'd really prefer it to not become even worse.

Yep, I'm strongly against any nerfs not directly aimed at the dual ER PPC nipple build. In no shape or form should it lose its 10% energy heat generation or mobility quirks; they shouldn't even be touched at all.

Edited by Zergling, 12 December 2016 - 04:09 PM.

[Chados]

Ghogiel, on 12 December 2016 - 03:57 PM, said:

Yep it's a bit OP.

It doesn't need nerfs. All it needs is the quirks tied to the 8 set and all the issues with it will be gone completely

It already has set-of-8 quirks. It's not OP, it's roughly equal to most IS heavies and not as good as the Clan heavyweights like the Night Gyr and Timberwolf.

[Zergling]

So following Ghogiel's idea, this is my suggested nerf:

Summoner Prime and M right arm: lose the 30% ER PPC velocity, 5% ER PPC cooldown quirks.
Summoner Prime and M variants: 8 sets gain 30% ER PPC velocity and 5% ER PPC cooldown quirks.

No other changes are needed.

[Ghogiel]

Zergling, on 12 December 2016 - 04:07 PM, said:

Instead of nerfing the ER PPC quirks on the Prime and M right arm, move them to 8 set.
Those variants get to keep the quirked ER PPC, while the dual ER PPC in high nipple hardpoints build is nerfed (although the M would be able to run with one ER PPC in high nipple, but with the other in the arm it would still be a nerf).

Exactly. I have something like 4-5 days of my life played in SMNs, I ran it 24/7 before it was cool. As soon as it either has to give up quirks or give up one of the ERPCC torsos I think it tones the single problematic build down significantly. and the best part of the set of 8 thing it doesn't affect the SMN B 5x missile boat quirks

[yaay]

the problem isn't the summoner, it's the erppc. It's a very, very easy weapon to use combined with a lot of heatsinks and a big TC.

[Snazzy Dragon]

SIGH

OKAY

If ANY nerfs are going to hit the summoner

TIE THEM TO THE LOYALTY TORSO OMNI PODS ONLY

That way we don't nuke the entire chassis into the ground.

[Dirus Nigh]

PGI is removing all quirks and modules and replacing them with a new skill tree. I think that will be "nerf" enough.

[Angel of Annihilation]

Dirus Nigh, on 12 December 2016 - 04:34 PM, said:

PGI is removing all quirks and modules and replacing them with a new skill tree. I think that will be "nerf" enough.

Nope. The recanted that. Russ has since went on record on Twitter and said that under performing mech will have baseline bonuses attached to them, ie quirks.

Looks like they were going to try to tie in the quirks to the skills but have since realized that doing so would be a massive balancing nightmare so they are pretty much going to leave in quirks and then just substitute the customizable skill tree for the one we have currently. However the customizable tree will pretty much just mimic what we have currently with all the module buffs added in and with with a few twist such as the new JJ tree.

[KHETTI]

Yup everything is gonna change soon, let the Summoner have its OP moment, i think it deserves it.

[Dirus Nigh]

Viktor Drake, on 12 December 2016 - 04:46 PM, said:

Nope. The recanted that. Russ has since went on record on Twitter and said that under performing mech will have baseline bonuses attached to them, ie quirks.

Looks like they were going to try to tie in the quirks to the skills but have since realized that doing so would be a massive balancing nightmare so they are pretty much going to leave in quirks and then just substitute the customizable skill tree for the one we have currently. However the customizable tree will pretty much just mimic what we have currently with all the module buffs added in and with with a few twist such as the new JJ tree.

That is just dumb. The balance problem is that Clan weapon and equipment are just base line better than IS. It's the quirks that make it messy.

[Sjorpha]

Set of 8 PPC quirks seems like a good solution.

Another way I'd like is if Clan omnipod weapon quirks only applied to weapons mounted in that pod, it would also make sense.

Edited by Sjorpha, 12 December 2016 - 04:57 PM.

[Rift Hawk]

Summoner is OP ? Are you ******* high ?