24 replies to this topic

[Nefesh]

I just got back into MWO with a friend of mine after taking a break since right around the Battle of Tukkayid.

Me and friends used to enjoy quick play together. Never more than 3 to a group. We never had problems finding matches. Wait times are ridiculous now.

Completely ridiculous. Whatever it is you changed needs to be reverted because faction play just isn't always what people want to do and waiting for 5 minutes + to find a Quick Match is insane.

MWO is now LESS fun because of whatever silly change you guys made. Getting ROFL stomped occasionally by organized groups was annoying, but it didn't happen all that often, and the nature of Quick Play meant you could quickly move on to the next match.

Getting ROFL stomped by better organized opponents in FW is far worse because it takes so much longer, not to mention your Invasion mode is absolutely horrible.

If you want to even things out then at least allow duos to enter quick play with the rest of the PUBS because this change has taken away quite a bit of fun from the experience.

Thank you.

[MadcatX]

There's group QP which is completely separate from FW, Unfortunatly the small groups allowed in PUG matches is no more, even if your 2 people you have to go into group QP.

[El Bandito]

I'll be ok with duos entering solo-q if their total tonnage is restricted to 100 tons max, and the MM views them both as Assault class T1 player.

Edited by El Bandito, 26 December 2016 - 08:03 AM.

[HeadScientist]

Yeah, it seems like tiers are completely thrown out the window in group queue, its pithier a stomp for you or the enemy and it isn't much fun getting roflstomped without even a chance to win.

[TWIAFU]

El Bandito, on 26 December 2016 - 08:01 AM, said:

I'll be ok with duos entering solo-q if their total tonnage is restricted to 100 tons max, and the MM views them both as Assault class T1 player.

Would be fun to read solo's complaining about duo groups in solo queue rolfstomping them.

HeadScientist, on 26 December 2016 - 08:20 AM, said:

Yeah, it seems like tiers are completely thrown out the window in group queue, its pithier a stomp for you or the enemy and it isn't much fun getting roflstomped without even a chance to win.

So, just like solo queue.

Might be time to look into that "teamwork' thing...

[ArchSight]

HeadScientist, on 26 December 2016 - 08:20 AM, said:

Yeah, it seems like tiers are completely thrown out the window in group queue, its pithier a stomp for you or the enemy and it isn't much fun getting roflstomped without even a chance to win.

Teirs are considered by matchmaker in group que but if it takes too long there's release valves that PGI has in place.

Group Que doesn't take into account the weight of the mechs when it matches the Teirs and number of players.
The mech weight balancing is decided within the group. Thats why you see so many assaults and heavy's in group que because small groups can take more weight while big groups can only take a reduced weight for every person added to the group. A 12 player group has a 50ton per person average. Of course, that doesn't stop groups from picking mechs that are lower weight, potentially gimping their team if they didn't have too. The minimum weight is for stopping players from bringing lower ton mechs when that can gimp the team.

[Splatshot]

This is why my son stopped playing the game, we should play in PUG land, when we play together we get stuck in the group que and hurt our team and get our buts kicked.

So we stopped playing together and he stopped playing.

[Lykaon]

TWIAFU, on 26 December 2016 - 08:24 AM, said:

Would be fun to read solo's complaining about duo groups in solo queue rolfstomping them.

It wouldn't be the duo groups it's would be the "synchro dropping 12 mans" stomping the poor puggies because I am sure that just because duo teams were allowed the twelve mans would suddenly want to syncro drop on the pubs.

I already see the forum postings from certain well known alarmists and anti groupers.

[RestosIII]

Duo-trio groups should be part of the normal QP queue, period. If you want, limit each team to 1-2 groups. But it's incredibly hard to get friends to join the game when you have to tell them "Yeah, I want to play with you, but if we drop together, we're probably going to face 8 man teams that will kick our asses."

[Ratpoison]

RestosIII, on 26 December 2016 - 12:09 PM, said:

Duo-trio groups should be part of the normal QP queue, period. If you want, limit each team to 1-2 groups. But it's incredibly hard to get friends to join the game when you have to tell them "Yeah, I want to play with you, but if we drop together, we're probably going to face 8 man teams that will kick our asses."

This is what the real problem is. The current setup is an awful experience for small groups with new players, and there ends up being no workable middle ground, so the new players just leave. The damage to player retention is undeniable and I've experienced it firsthand multiple times. Multiple accounts with paid content, interested in playing with me, and they just aren't, accounts inactive for months or years, as sour group queue experiences prevent them from ever getting invested. I can't imagine how many other inactive accounts there must be out there for the same reason. This is a long term viability problem for the game, and it's more important than the tears of a few solo pugs. 2 player groups don't significantly skew 12 man teams, especially with a reasonable restriction like 160 tons. It can be done, many multiplayer games do it well, and MWO needs to join them so these players can come back.

And they will come back! They're literally just waiting for this change to get motivated into playing and spending again. It pains me that PGI hasn't tried to fix this yet.

Hell if you're not willing to put duos in solo queue, reducing team sizes back to 8 vs 8 would also solve this problem, along with several others...

Edited by Ratpoison, 26 December 2016 - 01:49 PM.

[KingCobra]

Ratpoison said (This is what the real problem is. The current setup is an awful experience for small groups with new players, and there ends up being no workable middle ground, so the new players just leave. The damage to player retention is undeniable and I've experienced it firsthand multiple times. Multiple accounts with paid content, interested in playing with me, and they just aren't, accounts inactive for months or years, as sour group queue experiences prevent them from ever getting invested. I can't imagine how many other inactive accounts there must be out there for the same reason. This is a long term viability problem for the game, and it's more important than the tears of a few solo pugs. 2 player groups don't significantly skew 12 man teams, especially with a reasonable restriction like 160 tons. It can be done, many multiplayer games do it well, and MWO needs to join them so these players can come back.

And they will come back! They're literally just waiting for this change to get motivated into playing and spending again. It pains me that PGI hasn't tried to fix this yet.

Hell if you're not willing to put duos in solo queue, reducing team sizes back to 8 vs 8 would also solve this problem, along with several others... )
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Rat Poison this was not a issue until MWO the past PC MechWarrior games MW2-MW4 and all there expansions has Coop PVE and a multiplayer system that allowed groups of 2v2-12v12 to play against each other the only problem was it was set up on in-game IP servers where MWO is a server side system.

Microsoft fixed this issue by introducing the MSN gamming zone which was a huge social lobby system with game launchers inside the global chat room. Players could go into a launcher room in groups of 2v2-12v12 and launch games so friends could play.

MWO has a similar system in there private play system but lacks the global Social lobby system to find your friends to play games 2v2-12v12 and chat about the game itself and make new friends to find more games and game types in bigger groups.

[Ratpoison]

KingCobra, on 26 December 2016 - 01:59 PM, said:

Ratpoison said (This is what the real problem is. The current setup is an awful experience for small groups with new players, and there ends up being no workable middle ground, so the new players just leave. The damage to player retention is undeniable and I've experienced it firsthand multiple times. Multiple accounts with paid content, interested in playing with me, and they just aren't, accounts inactive for months or years, as sour group queue experiences prevent them from ever getting invested. I can't imagine how many other inactive accounts there must be out there for the same reason. This is a long term viability problem for the game, and it's more important than the tears of a few solo pugs. 2 player groups don't significantly skew 12 man teams, especially with a reasonable restriction like 160 tons. It can be done, many multiplayer games do it well, and MWO needs to join them so these players can come back.

And they will come back! They're literally just waiting for this change to get motivated into playing and spending again. It pains me that PGI hasn't tried to fix this yet.

Hell if you're not willing to put duos in solo queue, reducing team sizes back to 8 vs 8 would also solve this problem, along with several others... )
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Rat Poison this was not a issue until MWO the past PC MechWarrior games MW2-MW4 and all there expansions has Coop PVE and a multiplayer system that allowed groups of 2v2-12v12 to play against each other the only problem was it was set up on in-game IP servers where MWO is a server side system.

Microsoft fixed this issue by introducing the MSN gamming zone which was a huge social lobby system with game launchers inside the global chat room. Players could go into a launcher room in groups of 2v2-12v12 and launch games so friends could play.

MWO has a similar system in there private play system but lacks the global Social lobby system to find your friends to play games 2v2-12v12 and chat about the game itself and make new friends to find more games and game types in bigger groups.

So what exactly is your point, that matchmaking wasn't an issue in games without matchmaking? Not helpful. Every player on those multiplayer servers paid a full price entry fee for the game, and those games had no form of matchmaking. You can't fairly compare that to a free to play game running matchmaking servers, nor can you expect it to work the same. Those games also didn't have modern netcode, allowing all kinds of exploits to happen that things like HSR stop(and oh god the lag, yes I played on those servers). Wasting a bunch of resources developing an archaic lobby system that will only reduce the matchmaking pool is not going to do a damn thing for the rotten new player experience described here, and MWO has plenty of enthusiastic communities without needing a bunch of pointless outdated features that drain resources.

Edited by Ratpoison, 26 December 2016 - 03:33 PM.

[Xmith]

Max Meta, on 26 December 2016 - 07:06 AM, said:

I just got back into MWO with a friend of mine after taking a break since right around the Battle of Tukkayid.

Me and friends used to enjoy quick play together. Never more than 3 to a group. We never had problems finding matches. Wait times are ridiculous now.

Completely ridiculous. Whatever it is you changed needs to be reverted because faction play just isn't always what people want to do and waiting for 5 minutes + to find a Quick Match is insane.

MWO is now LESS fun because of whatever silly change you guys made. Getting ROFL stomped occasionally by organized groups was annoying, but it didn't happen all that often, and the nature of Quick Play meant you could quickly move on to the next match.

Getting ROFL stomped by better organized opponents in FW is far worse because it takes so much longer, not to mention your Invasion mode is absolutely horrible.

If you want to even things out then at least allow duos to enter quick play with the rest of the PUBS because this change has taken away quite a bit of fun from the experience.

Thank you.

I have a question for dual groups. What form of communication do you use to coordinate with the other 10 teammates?

[Y E O N N E]

Xmith, on 26 December 2016 - 04:15 PM, said:

I have a question for dual groups. What form of communication do you use to coordinate with the other 10 teammates?

Telepathy, ostensibly.

[Xmith]

Very funny, What about voip? Do the dual teams communicate by voip with the other 10?

[KingCobra]

Rat(So what exactly is your point)

The point is Rat This IP(TT-BattleTech-MechWarrior) would never ever have become popular without the one thing MWO is lacking so badly and that is Socialization and your point was you want to play with your buddies and friends and you can do that now in MWO in the private game mode for a price=MC.

But you cant tell your buddy hey lets find some other friends to play a2v2-12v12 without a good Social Chat lobby system most of your good AAA title games have a social lobby system so you and your friends can find matches with other players MWO has none.

And it is not a good idea to reintroduce 2man-12 man groups back into the solo MM it was a total fail/stomp by teams and small groups just like CW/FP has been a huge fail up until 4.1 because of the same reason teams and solo/pugs/casual players just don't mix well and need separation in MWO game play.

[RestosIII]

KingCobra, on 26 December 2016 - 04:52 PM, said:

Rat(So what exactly is your point)

The point is Rat This IP(TT-BattleTech-MechWarrior) would never ever have become popular without the one thing MWO is lacking so badly and that is Socialization and your point was you want to play with your buddies and friends and you can do that now in MWO in the private game mode for a price=MC.

But you cant tell your buddy hey lets find some other friends to play a2v2-12v12 without a good Social Chat lobby system most of your good AAA title games have a social lobby system so you and your friends can find matches with other players MWO has none.

And it is not a good idea to reintroduce 2man-12 man groups back into the solo MM it was a total fail/stomp by teams and small groups just like CW/FP has been a huge fail up until 4.1 because of the same reason teams and solo/pugs/casual players just don't mix well and need separation in MWO game play.

No-one is asking for 12 man groups to be able to drop against pubs again. That's ridiculous. All we want is 2-3 man groups being able to drop without facing the untiered death march of group queue. And, this might surprise you, but maybe, just maybe, I don't have 5+ friends on beck and call at all times when I want to play the game. That, and it doesn't help a new player you're trying to introduce to the game to stick them in a group of 6+ and carry him to victory while he isn't contributing at all. 2-3 man groups or bust.

[Ratpoison]

KingCobra, on 26 December 2016 - 04:52 PM, said:

Rat(So what exactly is your point)

The point is Rat This IP(TT-BattleTech-MechWarrior) would never ever have become popular without the one thing MWO is lacking so badly and that is Socialization and your point was you want to play with your buddies and friends and you can do that now in MWO in the private game mode for a price=MC.

But you cant tell your buddy hey lets find some other friends to play a2v2-12v12 without a good Social Chat lobby system most of your good AAA title games have a social lobby system so you and your friends can find matches with other players MWO has none.

And it is not a good idea to reintroduce 2man-12 man groups back into the solo MM it was a total fail/stomp by teams and small groups just like CW/FP has been a huge fail up until 4.1 because of the same reason teams and solo/pugs/casual players just don't mix well and need separation in MWO game play.

I don't think you understand that most people don't want to deal with that archaic junk, just look how quiet faction chat is to see it in action. That isn't how socialization works these days, no one is interested in tediously sifting through private servers, joining one after the other just to find a decent game to play. People don't have time for that garbage when they're just trying to relax with a game, so we use matchmakers to arrange potentially good games for us. Like I said(and you ignored), MWO communities thrive just fine outside of the client, and those who are inclined should be encouraged to join them for the kind of experience you're looking for.

[KingCobra]

Restoslll(No-one is asking for 12 man groups to be able to drop against pubs again. That's ridiculous. All we want is 2-3 man groups being able to drop without facing the untiered death march of group queue. And, this might surprise you, but maybe, just maybe, I don't have 5+ friends on beck and call at all times when I want to play the game. That, and it doesn't help a new player you're trying to introduce to the game to stick them in a group of 6+ and carry him to victory while he isn't contributing at all. 2-3 man groups or bust. )
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And for 3 years I have said the same thing as you only make the private group drops free no MC charge so small groups 2v2-12v12 can drop and play friendly matches with friends or find other small groups so they can play games not just be thrown to the wolves bundles together against a 12 man premade.

That's what the lobby system was for Microsoft knew this and they designed it just for what you are looking for in MWO small group gameplay. But the solo MM is working great with no groups in it and it would not be good to reintroduce groups in solo play so MWO needs fresh ideas not ones that almost doomed the game.

Edited by KingCobra, 26 December 2016 - 05:28 PM.

[RestosIII]

KingCobra, on 26 December 2016 - 05:28 PM, said:

Restoslll(No-one is asking for 12 man groups to be able to drop against pubs again. That's ridiculous. All we want is 2-3 man groups being able to drop without facing the untiered death march of group queue. And, this might surprise you, but maybe, just maybe, I don't have 5+ friends on beck and call at all times when I want to play the game. That, and it doesn't help a new player you're trying to introduce to the game to stick them in a group of 6+ and carry him to victory while he isn't contributing at all. 2-3 man groups or bust. )
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And for 3 years I have said the same thing as you only make the private group drops free no MC charge so small groups 2v2-12v12 can drop and play friendly matches with friends or find other small groups so they can play games not just be thrown to the wolves bundles together against a 12 man premade.

That's what the lobby system was for Microsoft knew this and they designed it just for what you are looking for in MWO small group gameplay. But the solo MM is working great with no groups in it and it would not be good to reintroduce groups in solo play so MWO needs fresh ideas not ones that almost doomed the game.

Except, y'know, that completely negates any reason for new players dropping with friends. Making C-Bills/XP, while fighting players using a variety of builds and mechs to get better at the game. A lobby system won't help new players wanting to play with an older player at all.