31 replies to this topic

[-Rasalom-]

Any chance of adding some melee weapons to our mechs? Buzz saw hands/ Chain saw arms/ battering ram entending arms... hell, even a mace and chain or a sword arm extension would be good.

[Glaive-]

I'd be plenty happy with even just punching tbh

[El Bandito]

Crysis the game had melee, so there is no reason why this game shouldn't have one as well. PGI did improve collision code this patch so melee is closer to implementation, I hope. I'd imagine an Atlas punches as hard as an AC20 round.

[Hit the Deck]

There's also "kick attack" in the TT rules IIRC.

I'd like to have melee but I wonder if it would look silly with 'Mechs punching and kicking each other in real time on the battlefield.

What I definitely want to see is that hands (as in hand actuators) have definite use related to movement or mobility, like the ability to get up faster (not just a passive bonus to climbing like Bandito suggested). Maybe just implement punching (and leave kicking) and give those 'Mechs which don't have hand actuators a penalty to damage. This will benefit those IS 'Mechs which can't remove their hand actuators.

Edited by Hit the Deck, 14 December 2016 - 07:12 PM.

[Valhallan]

actually an atlas only punches like an ac/10, unless it gets TSM anyway

[Kasumi Sumika]

Axman and Hatchetman Confirmed.

[-Rasalom-]

Rocket Powered Pnumatic Fists!

http://giphy.com/gifs/xHZjRuI3miDAY

Edited by Sal Roma, 14 December 2016 - 07:30 PM.

[wolf74]

If the Table Top rule for melee is the base.

Punching; Arm weapons disabled for x time suggest some where between 2 to 5 sec, damage is (mech weight/10)
Kicking; damage (mech weight / 5), if the kick misses you have a chance of falling down.

Triple strength myoer weight 0, 6critals double the melee damage if the mech heat is over Y%. If they add the CBT heat speed penalties than the 1st penalty would be removed and speed boost would be add.

Hatch/swords attacks: Damage (mech weight/5) only weapons in the hatch arm are disabled for x time
Mace attacks: Damage (mech weight/2.5) only weapons in the mace arm are disabled for (x * 2) time also longer recharge before you can attack again

[GreyNovember]

El Bandito, on 14 December 2016 - 06:58 PM, said:

Crysis the game had melee, so there is no reason why this game shouldn't have one as well. PGI did improve collision code this patch so melee is closer to implementation, I hope. I'd imagine an Atlas punches as hard as an AC20 round.

There's also the question of how an Atlas is supposed to punch. This is something that always bothered me, not just about bare handed mech fighting, but mechs with swords and whatnot. I haven't seen any canon depiction of HOW these implements are used, other than " It hits them ".

Is it disciplined, or does it just piston it's arm forward like a machine? Can it do martial arts, because human pilot and myomer humanoid?

Does it have to take a stance? Does an Atlas need to brace and lower it's center of gravity before actually throwing a punch?

How big is a fist's hitbox? What happens if it hits multiple mechs? Does it stop after hitting any surface?

What happens if I miss, do I go off balance? If my hit connects, am I allowed to chain up another quicker?

A human being in power armour hitting someone with the butt of a gun is easier to conceptualize than a fictional mech fisting something to death. We can actually do the former ourselves. The latter does not yet exist.

[El Bandito]

GreyNovember, on 14 December 2016 - 07:20 PM, said:

There's also the question of how an Atlas is supposed to punch. This is something that always bothered me, not just about bare handed mech fighting, but mechs with swords and whatnot. I haven't seen any canon depiction of HOW these implements are used, other than " It hits them ".

Is it disciplined, or does it just piston it's arm forward like a machine? Can it do martial arts, because human pilot and myomer humanoid?

Does it have to take a stance? Does an Atlas need to brace and lower it's center of gravity before actually throwing a punch?

How big is a fist's hitbox? What happens if it hits multiple mechs? Does it stop after hitting any surface?

What happens if I miss, do I go off balance? If my hit connects, am I allowed to chain up another quicker?

A human being in power armour hitting someone with the butt of a gun is easier to conceptualize than a fictional mech fisting something to death. We can actually do the former ourselves. The latter does not yet exist.

Read "Test of Vengeance". The first chapter depicts an Atlas using his hands to sort of uppercutting an Elemental. His mech couldn't handle the momentum so he fell down. I'd imagine he might be still standing if it was a mech he punched. A mech would stop his forward momentum.

[RestosIII]

Hit the Deck, on 14 December 2016 - 07:05 PM, said:

There's also "kick attack" in the TT rules IIRC.

I'd like to have melee but I wonder if it would look silly with 'Mechs punching and kicking each other in real time on the battlefield.

What I definitely want to see is that hands (as in hand actuators) have definite use related to movement or mobility, like the ability to get up faster (not just a passive bonus to climbing like Bandito suggested). Maybe just implement punching (and leave kicking) and give those 'Mechs which don't have hand actuators a penalty to damage. This will benefit those IS 'Mechs which can't remove their hand actuators.

Don't forget to give all IS mechs just an inherent melee bonus over Clan mechs. I don't want Clan members using those dirty tactics of melee on my watch.

GreyNovember, on 14 December 2016 - 07:20 PM, said:

There's also the question of how an Atlas is supposed to punch. This is something that always bothered me, not just about bare handed mech fighting, but mechs with swords and whatnot. I haven't seen any canon depiction of HOW these implements are used, other than " It hits them ".

Is it disciplined, or does it just piston it's arm forward like a machine? Can it do martial arts, because human pilot and myomer humanoid?

Does it have to take a stance? Does an Atlas need to brace and lower it's center of gravity before actually throwing a punch?

How big is a fist's hitbox? What happens if it hits multiple mechs? Does it stop after hitting any surface?

What happens if I miss, do I go off balance? If my hit connects, am I allowed to chain up another quicker?

A human being in power armour hitting someone with the butt of a gun is easier to conceptualize than a fictional mech fisting something to death. We can actually do the former ourselves. The latter does not yet exist.

That's how it does it.

Edited by RestosIII, 14 December 2016 - 08:14 PM.

[Snazzy Dragon]

A good balance opportunity for IS vs Clan: make melee exclusive to IS mechs since clans often found melee dishonorable except in very special circumstances

[GreyNovember]

RestosIII, on 14 December 2016 - 08:13 PM, said:

That's how it does it.

I was looking for a more technical explanation. I mostly got " My fantasy idea of really cool " from that.

[RestosIII]

GreyNovember, on 14 December 2016 - 08:37 PM, said:

I was looking for a more technical explanation. I mostly got " My fantasy idea of really cool " from that.

That's all Battletech is. "My fantasy idea of really cool". You don't question it. You just enjoy it. If you hit with a punch, it hurts. If you miss, you missed. That's it.

[TheArisen]

Kasumi Sumika, on 14 December 2016 - 07:12 PM, said:

Axman and Hatchetman Confirmed.

Don't forget the Berserker!!!

So yes, I'd love to get melee in the game.

[Valhallan]

GreyNovember, on 14 December 2016 - 07:20 PM, said:

There's also the question of how an Atlas is supposed to punch. This is something that always bothered me, not just about bare handed mech fighting, but mechs with swords and whatnot. I haven't seen any canon depiction of HOW these implements are used, other than " It hits them ".

Is it disciplined, or does it just piston it's arm forward like a machine? Can it do martial arts, because human pilot and myomer humanoid?

Does it have to take a stance? Does an Atlas need to brace and lower it's center of gravity before actually throwing a punch?

How big is a fist's hitbox? What happens if it hits multiple mechs? Does it stop after hitting any surface?

What happens if I miss, do I go off balance? If my hit connects, am I allowed to chain up another quicker?

A human being in power armour hitting someone with the butt of a gun is easier to conceptualize than a fictional mech fisting something to death. We can actually do the former ourselves. The latter does not yet exist.

From what i remember

Mech Punches function like human punches, the force coming from myomer/muscle contracting to "swing". weapon usage is probably similar

Depends on the martial arts,i don't think there is a "wrist" on mechs

What for? would it benefit from the momentum? maybe, but it shouldn't "need" to just like we don't need to do that to punch.

It can't hit multiple mechs, depends on the material of course

Punches do not cause a balance check, kicks however do if you miss. since when does connecting a punch let you punch faster? connecting just gives a better opportunity to hit because the opp is stunned/winded so normally people make a quick followup to exploit that.

It looks different but i just see mech melee combat as a fancier version of a battering ram (i still want it though)

Edited by Valhallan, 14 December 2016 - 09:36 PM.

[Quinn Allard]

Melee gets implemented Im out. I think its silly, like a Transformers game.

[RestosIII]

Quinn Allard, on 14 December 2016 - 09:48 PM, said:

Melee gets implemented Im out. I think its silly, like a Transformers game.

Guess you hate Battletech TT then, eh? And it's no more silly than LRMs with puny ranges, or the fact that we're piloting mechs in general even though in-universe things like the Demolisher II are just hilariously better designs and use of resources than a mech. Plus, the faction you're fighting for? They're just Godwin's Law, in space.

[TheArisen]

Quinn Allard, on 14 December 2016 - 09:48 PM, said:

Melee gets implemented Im out. I think its silly, like a Transformers game.

Why is it silly for a war machine that often has hands, etc, to hit another mech? The ppc has a minimum range so sometimes whacking the enemy is the way to go.

[Steinar Bergstol]

El Bandito, on 14 December 2016 - 06:58 PM, said:

Crysis the game had melee, so there is no reason why this game shouldn't have one as well. PGI did improve collision code this patch so melee is closer to implementation, I hope. I'd imagine an Atlas punches as hard as an AC20 round.

An Atlas does 10 points of damage in TT with its punch and can punch with both arms with hits being located on the upper half of the target (greater chance of headshot because of this). It also has a 20 point kick (but of course can only use one leg to kick in a round. No jumping splitkicks for Atlases ). Kicks hits the legs or, if the mech is standing one elevation level above the target then it hits like a punch.

The basic formula is: Punch does mech tonnage/10 damage. Kick does mech tonnage/5 damage.

Physical attacks from an assault mech hit _hard_!