150 replies to this topic

[S C A R]

Guys, you just don't get it. Yes, in te ideal world "a lore" gameplay would be a million times more fun. But this is not the ideal world this is a game designed by PGI (of all the people. I must've done something really horrible in my past life to deserve this). Lore doesn't win you the games and doesn't help your team either. You can bring lore builds to QP as let's face it, nobody cares about that junk anyway. FP is about people wanting to play in groups, a coordinated fashion, with more or less competitive builds. In fact, PGI specifically warned everyone that FP is like that. And yet, peple just don't get it through their thick head that they are not wanted here with their lore mentality.

[Lily from animove]

S C A R, on 03 January 2017 - 10:36 PM, said:

Guys, you just don't get it. Yes, in te ideal world "a lore" gameplay would be a million times more fun. But this is not the ideal world this is a game designed by PGI (of all the people. I must've done something really horrible in my past life to deserve this). Lore doesn't win you the games and doesn't help your team either. You can bring lore builds to QP as let's face it, nobody cares about that junk anyway. FP is about people wanting to play in groups, a coordinated fashion, with more or less competitive builds. In fact, PGI specifically warned everyone that FP is like that. And yet, peple just don't get it through their thick head that they are not wanted here with their lore mentality.

I am quite sure it is your current lives karma, and if you continue with your usual attitute your next lives karma will not be different.

[Reza Malin]

MischiefSC, on 03 January 2017 - 06:41 PM, said:

Except you're mixing populations. All for helping new players. I want wants to add them to group from in match. We need a slew of tools to help new players, no question.

However the bulk of pugs in MWO and FP are not new players. Wish they were - that would mean there was a huge influx of new players that we don't have.

Most units have tried and regularly try to call drops on VOIP and are always looking for new players to help. That's not what's being discussed here. The bulk of pugs are not new - they've been playing for a couple of generations of FW, they don't want to group up or really change in any way.

There's an embarrassing number of players with a sub 0.5 w/l in FP who've got a ton of matches in FW 3, even CW2 or 1.

They are dedicated potatoes. It's rare for me to be in a drop someone doesn't try to call but it only takes 3 or 4 like that to tank the whole team.

There's some great pugs - hell, everyone pugs sometimes. However new players are people who *can* get developed up into good players and nobody disagrees we need better tools to help do that. However the sea of players who will drop 5-10 matches a night every night and win 1/10th of them? Who've had countless opportunities to pay attention to dropped callers, get help bringing good decks and ignore it all?

That's the potatoes.

I hear you mate, and i have seen it myself. Of course i am not saying that every unit is condescending, nor do i blame them for getting frustrated when people don't listen to sound strategy if someone goes out of their way to deliver it via voice chat.

Likewise, i am not saying that every perceived potato is new or inexperienced, of course some are just not good players, or simply do not care as much as some people about their performance.

However.

I have seen a lot of players recently, PUG players, who really wanted to learn and do well, and simply do not have the experience required to do so. Then, exacerbating this, i have been in drops (and im talking clan here, which isn't even the really bad side to be on as a pug) where the drop caller sounds like he is The President of the United States, gracing everyone with his presence and that we should all be grateful for it.

As a former drop caller for a unit, i respect anyone who does call, especially in a PUG drop. It can be stressful even with a 12 man on voice chat, never mind on a PUG. But if you come across a group that is unreceptive and you see a couple of terrible or outspoken players who refuse to work together, remember this.

In that group there are probably 2 or 3 or even more, potentially good players, that were listening. That were following the strategy and still lost with everyone else. They might just not have been talking or saying anything. These are the players we don't want to isolate. That can only be done with patience. The unhelpful ones probably don't care anyway, and will just stop playing when they get bored of playing badly. The decent people will be the ones that actually get disheartened.

Like anything with a steep learning curve, replacing lost experience is difficult. Which is why as a community, MWO has to try harder than most to maintain good interactions.

A good example is my own experiences. I played since open beta, first as IS obviously, then as clan when the invasion first started. before clans, i was just an average pug. I was decent but had a lot to learn. I decided to join a unit and ended up in CWDG. We are going back a fair while here, but after being there for a short while, it basically opened my mind to a whole new world of playability and enjoyment within MWO. it also greatly increased my awareness of tactics and attrition in the game.

I enjoyed dropping as a group with CWDG back then, it was good people, including Gyrok, who is actually a great guy and a very good pilot, despite what people may think of his forums posts. I ended up being promoted and called a fair few 12 man drops myself, with varying success (before CW started though i may add).

Now what i am trying to say, is not that everyone should join a unit as i would be a hypocrite as i am currently in a 1 man unit and only PUG. My point is, if we make the social interactions, even in PUG or partial PUG matches, enjoyable and try to grow the community into something beyond "Tier 1 PRO vs Tier 5 POTATO", then more people may be inclined to stick around and heaven forbid, increase unit recruitment and retention.

Im not saying its a miracle cure, but still. Why not? Its much easier to be nice to people than disrespectful. People use TS or discord or whatever for units. What is the harm if you arent running a complete 12 man in just jumping on in game chat and talking with the rest of the team. I guarantee, there will be some decent non unit players, who have never been in a unit who would love that interaction and may make them see more of the game than just a solo experience.

For me, in my own MWO experience, the biggest and hardest step to motivate, but which improved my game considerably, was the jump from pugging to joining a unit.

Anyway, i don't want to keep waffling about it just wanted to add my own observations as a decent solo player. Its just my opinion, but i do love this game and want it to be fun for everyone. Right now it isn't.

Edited by Reza Malin, 04 January 2017 - 01:01 PM.

[MischiefSC]

Reza Malin, on 04 January 2017 - 12:56 PM, said:

I hear you mate, and i have seen it myself. Of course i am not saying that every unit is condescending, nor do i blame them for getting frustrated when people don't listen to sound strategy if someone goes out of their way to deliver it via voice chat.

Likewise, i am not saying that every perceived potato is new or inexperienced, of course some are just not good players, or simply do not care as much as some people about their performance.

However.

I have seen a lot of players recently, PUG players, who really wanted to learn and do well, and simply do not have the experience required to do so. Then, exacerbating this, i have been in drops (and im talking clan here, which isn't even the really bad side to be on as a pug) where the drop caller sounds like he is The President of the United States, gracing everyone with his presence and that we should all be grateful for it.

As a former drop caller for a unit, i respect anyone who does call, especially in a PUG drop. It can be stressful even with a 12 man on voice chat, never mind on a PUG. But if you come across a group that is unreceptive and you see a couple of terrible or outspoken players who refuse to work together, remember this.

In that group there are probably 2 or 3 or even more, potentially good players, that were listening. That were following the strategy and still lost with everyone else. They might just not have been talking or saying anything. These are the players we don't want to isolate. That can only be done with patience. The unhelpful ones probably don't care anyway, and will just stop playing when they get bored of playing badly. The decent people will be the ones that actually get disheartened.

Like anything with a steep learning curve, replacing lost experience is difficult. Which is why as a community, MWO has to try harder than most to maintain good interactions.

A good example is my own experiences. I played since open beta, first as IS obviously, then as clan when the invasion first started. before clans, i was just an average pug. I was decent but had a lot to learn. I decided to join a unit and ended up in CWDG. We are going back a fair while here, but after being there for a short while, it basically opened my mind to a whole new world of playability and enjoyment within MWO. it also greatly increased my awareness of tactics and attrition in the game.

I enjoyed dropping as a group with CWDG back then, it was good people, including Gyrok, who is actually a great guy and a very good pilot, despite what people may think of his forums posts. I ended up being promoted and called a fair few 12 man drops myself, with varying success (before CW started though i may add).

Now what i am trying to say, is not that everyone should join a unit as i would be a hypocrite as i am currently in a 1 man unit and only PUG. My point is, if we make the social interactions, even in PUG or partial PUG matches, enjoyable and try to grow the community into something beyond "Tier 1 PRO vs Tier 5 POTATO", then more people may be inclined to stick around and heaven forbid, increase unit recruitment and retention.

Im not saying its a miracle cure, but still. Why not? Its much easier to be nice to people than disrespectful. People use TS or discord or whatever for units. What is the harm if you arent running a complete 12 man in just jumping on in game chat and talking with the rest of the team. I guarantee, there will be some decent non unit players, who have never been in a unit who would love that interaction and may make them see more of the game than just a solo experience.

For me, in my own MWO experience, the biggest and hardest step to motivate, but which improved my game considerably, was the jump from pugging to joining a unit.

Anyway, i don't want to keep waffling about it just wanted to add my own observations as a decent solo player. Its just my opinion, but i do love this game and want it to be fun for everyone. Right now it isn't.

It's a byproduct of time. How many times does a unit need to run into a couple terribad 'I DO WUT I WANT' nimwits before he just doesn't bother? 5?10? 50? 100? At some point everyone (except possibly Pat Kell) just runs out of ***** to give and you assume every pug in every match is like the scrublord from the last match.

Not really a fix for it.

[Reza Malin]

MischiefSC, on 04 January 2017 - 01:11 PM, said:

It's a byproduct of time. How many times does a unit need to run into a couple terribad 'I DO WUT I WANT' nimwits before he just doesn't bother? 5?10? 50? 100? At some point everyone (except possibly Pat Kell) just runs out of ***** to give and you assume every pug in every match is like the scrublord from the last match.

Not really a fix for it.

I honestly totally get it. Even with 12 mans you sometimes get that one guy who doesn't listen fully or hangs back on the pushes and frustrates the hell out of you.

I am not saying it is wrong, it is completely human. I feel frustrated myself often, after watching some other players, or seeing people that don't understand how the game works sometimes. I just feel it is a factor in what makes people play better. The people with all the knowledge are the long time players. Yet the long time players are usually to reticent to share their gameplay with the people that need the knowledge when exposed to them, beyond a recurring mindset i see of  "Do what i say or will basically see you as sub-human".

As with much in life, encouragement often brings out the best in people.

Edited by Reza Malin, 04 January 2017 - 01:26 PM.

[Pat Kell]

MischiefSC, on 04 January 2017 - 01:11 PM, said:

It's a byproduct of time. How many times does a unit need to run into a couple terribad 'I DO WUT I WANT' nimwits before he just doesn't bother? 5?10? 50? 100? At some point everyone (except possibly Pat Kell) just runs out of ***** to give and you assume every pug in every match is like the scrublord from the last match.

Not really a fix for it.

I fear you may give me too much credit. I try hard to be patient with people but as Reza pointed out, everyone gets frustrated with other people's gaming choices from time to time...although I am flattered:)

[Gas Guzzler]

If this is how things are going at a given time, why not just break up the group and drop in 4-mans and carry your pugs? It will be more challenging but you will still probably win and get more C-bills because your damage scores will be higher.

[Deathlike]

Reza Malin, on 04 January 2017 - 01:25 PM, said:

I honestly totally get it. Even with 12 mans you sometimes get that one guy who doesn't listen fully or hangs back on the pushes and frustrates the hell out of you.

I am not saying it is wrong, it is completely human. I feel frustrated myself often, after watching some other players, or seeing people that don't understand how the game works sometimes. I just feel it is a factor in what makes people play better. The people with all the knowledge are the long time players. Yet the long time players are usually to reticent to share their gameplay with the people that need the knowledge when exposed to them, beyond a recurring mindset i see of "Do what i say or will basically see you as sub-human".

As with much in life, encouragement often brings out the best in people.

It's not necessarily about sharing... some people won't share, but I'd say in the best interests of winning as a group... it really isn't difficult to share.

It comes back to the age old question... "do you want to listen?". That's the greatest core issue this game faces more often than not.

I'm not saying what other people suggest are good/bad/superior/inferior, but in some ways people should be paying attention to what more successful players/units are telling them and evaluate it for themselves. One may not be a better teamplayer overnight, but a consistent player that's working to get better at their craft is often going to reach that point much faster.

Edited by Deathlike, 06 January 2017 - 02:16 PM.

[DavidStarr]

Gas Guzzler, on 05 January 2017 - 03:28 PM, said:

If this is how things are going at a given time, why not just break up the group and drop in 4-mans and carry your pugs?

What are you speaking of? I've been dropping with 10+ group lately and we've been going 4-1 or 3-1 at best.

[Stormie]

DavidStarr, on 10 January 2017 - 01:35 AM, said:

What are you speaking of? I've been dropping with 10+ group lately and we've been going 4-1 or 3-1 at best.

Theres a big difference between 'dropping with a group' of 12 blokes that randomly signed up to an open TS, and 'dropping with a group' of blokes that play together regularly with complementary builds and strategy. the former is a step up from pugging it, but only one step. the later is the other end of the staircase.