150 replies to this topic

[The Basilisk]

Stormie, on 03 January 2017 - 03:39 AM, said:

which is all fine to be honest, nothing wrong with playing lore/spud build and playing with a non-competitive mindset. however be aware by doing so you lose your right to ***** and moan 'x/y is OP'

You think so?
Well I don't.
When I see something that I perceive to be wrongly implemented I'll say so.

Again the tendency to think that someone who is non competetive looses any sorts of rights to do just the same (winning for example) as the comp shows.
Again and again the mainfault is to think ppl who do not want tho ride the minmaxers and comp player train are somhow inferior.

They aren't. They are PLAYERS just like you.

This is an effin game and there is absolutely nothing to prove outside of that you are better in exploiting and minmaxing the sh.. out of the gamemechanics than some other guy who probably isn't even trying or intrested in doing so.

Again the minmaxers and the loophole seekers may come pretty handy in alpha or beta testing but are a problem when put together with the normal players who don't even bother to think along those lines. (btw you can recognize a badly balanced game or badly implemented gamemechanics from the ammount of problems comming from minmaxing....see STO f.e. its just horribad)

[justcallme A S H]

The Basilisk, on 03 January 2017 - 04:07 AM, said:

Again the tendency to think that someone who is non competetive looses any sorts of rights to do just the same (winning for example) as the comp shows.
Again and again the mainfault is to think ppl who do not want tho ride the minmaxers and comp player train are somhow inferior.

FP is a competitive mode where optimised builds are recommended, team work is basically a given.


If you are not prepared to bring competitive builds, work as a team - in a mode that is specifically designed for it.

You absolutely lose all right to complain/whine/whatever.

Edited by justcallme A S H, 03 January 2017 - 05:05 AM.

[DavidStarr]

The Basilisk, on 03 January 2017 - 04:07 AM, said:

Again and again the mainfault is to think ppl who do not want tho ride the minmaxers and comp player train are somhow inferior.

They're not inferior in any way. They just don't want to win. Or worse, they do want to win but don't want to actually put effort towards that goal. So when they blame everything but themselves, that is highly annoying. Such mentality makes a person an eternal loser (and I suspect these people are losers IRL, too).

[justcallme A S H]

Oh and playing tonight - HACKUSATION'ed again while on a team, mowing mechs down in seconds.

That has happened a lot since 4.1... Since all the terribad's have filtered from QP into FP. That never used to happen in FP. Yeah I make 7-12 kills a match, do 2500dmg+ on average now.

That somehow means I'm hacking now. I've had it once a week for the last month, it's starting to annoy me a tad.


That is the problem with FP - that attitude right there. The same attitude I've been talking about for a few months. A bad player doesn't understand why LRM mechs were destroyed in seconds, don't understand that standing still in-front of 4 mechs means you will instantly die.

That stuff, generally, doesn't happen in the depths of the QP tiers. Yet those people suddenly come into a much more serious mode and it's everyone else's fault?

Pfft.

[50 50]

I'd like to throw in here that it is a good thing to have all these additional players spending more time in Faction Play. I am one. It never interested me much before, but I am enjoying these different modes and having more depth.
It is my hope there are more sweeping changes to come.
However, everyone needs to remember that this will likely be the trend. A wave of new players will start playing more Faction Play where there are some veteran units and players who have been playing in this mode for some time and we will go through the same cycle.
It will take a while for new players to adapt to the different style of play, work on their mechs some more and start to build up their experience again. It's like moving into a new tier and finding that the game has changed. Initially this is difficult and painful, but as you go you find the pace and level you need to fight at and results begin to come through.
Experienced players need to back off and not be so frustrated by this influx. Ultimately it is good for the mode.
New players need to realise that this is another step, which they may not be prepared for, and understand that perseverance will eventually pay off if they are open to adapting to the differences.

Edited by 50 50, 03 January 2017 - 06:04 AM.

[DavidStarr]

justcallme A S H, on 03 January 2017 - 05:30 AM, said:

I've had it once a week for the last month, it's starting to annoy me a tad.

Why? Translated from the language of the noobs, it simply means your superior skill was recognized properly.

Edited by DavidStarr, 03 January 2017 - 06:12 AM.

[MischiefSC]

The Basilisk, on 03 January 2017 - 04:07 AM, said:

You think so?
Well I don't.
When I see something that I perceive to be wrongly implemented I'll say so.

Again the tendency to think that someone who is non competetive looses any sorts of rights to do just the same (winning for example) as the comp shows.
Again and again the mainfault is to think ppl who do not want tho ride the minmaxers and comp player train are somhow inferior.

They aren't. They are PLAYERS just like you.

This is an effin game and there is absolutely nothing to prove outside of that you are better in exploiting and minmaxing the sh.. out of the gamemechanics than some other guy who probably isn't even trying or intrested in doing so.

Again the minmaxers and the loophole seekers may come pretty handy in alpha or beta testing but are a problem when put together with the normal players who don't even bother to think along those lines. (btw you can recognize a badly balanced game or badly implemented gamemechanics from the ammount of problems comming from minmaxing....see STO f.e. its just horribad)

So people who intentionally refuse to improve or intentionally gimp themselves and screw their team are who the game should cater too?

That's so feeble, holds the very nature of success and accomplishment in contempt, so utterly without merit I've got to think you're trolling.

So because people who are bad at something that are more common than people who are good at something then being good at something makes you the problem?

Great plan! We focus on supporting the people who lose, don't want to improve and don't care about the team in literally the most team-oriented part of the game!

The concept of "try to get better" is fundamental to anything an everything. To glorify embracing being a failure and not trying to improve is one of the saddest game development idea I've seen.

Someone wants to derp then derp away. Go nuts, have fun. To say however that someone going full derp deserves respect or even consideration in an environment like FW where their derping screws everyone they play with, that's not going to happen.

Still slapping my forehead over the idea that being good at the game is the problem and that the real solution is eliminating standards and celebrating being bad at the game.

[ccrider]

DavidStarr, on 03 January 2017 - 06:10 AM, said:

Why? Translated from the language of the noobs, it simply means your superior skill was recognized properly.

damn, does that mean instead of congratulating evil or mj12 or kcom for beating me I need to accuse them of hacking to properly convey that I think they played better?

[Vincent Quatermain]

The Basilisk, on 03 January 2017 - 04:07 AM, said:

This is an effin game and there is absolutely nothing to prove outside of that you are better in exploiting and minmaxing the sh.. out of the gamemechanics than some other guy who probably isn't even trying or intrested in doing so.

Yes, people who play to win will beat people who don't. Are they better people than those who don't play to win? No, of course not. But they are better at this game.

If someone is losing a lot, and they aren't playing to the meta, then they know exactly what they need to do in order to win more often. If they don't do so, that's not the fault of people who play the meta. If you want to just **** around in FP - a game mode that tells you right up front that this is the deep end of the pool -- then you reap what you sow.

Moreoever, the above will hold true regardless of what the meta currently is. It's all just numbers in a big database, after all. PGI could tweak those numbers such as to make LRM Urbies the new meta -- and people who didn't play accordingly would get stomped into the dirt.

You cannot escape meta -- there will always be one.

[Pat Kell]

ccrider, on 03 January 2017 - 12:14 PM, said:

damn, does that mean instead of congratulating evil or mj12 or kcom for beating me I need to accuse them of hacking to properly convey that I think they played better?

I promise I will try to properly receive your attempt at properly recognizing our skill level as long as it's a properly delivered.....

[ccrider]

Pat Kell, on 03 January 2017 - 04:38 PM, said:

I promise I will try to properly receive your attempt at properly recognizing our skill level as long as it's a properly delivered.....

You mean like, "hacks! ******* cheaters/exploiters, blah,blah,blah?" lol

[Cox Devalis]

justcallme A S H, on 03 January 2017 - 05:05 AM, said:

If you are not prepared to bring competitive builds, work as a team - in a mode that is specifically designed for it.

You absolutely lose all right to complain/whine/whatever.

I will like this picture wherever it appears.

[Vxheous]

justcallme A S H, on 03 January 2017 - 05:30 AM, said:

Oh and playing tonight - HACKUSATION'ed again while on a team, mowing mechs down in seconds.

That has happened a lot since 4.1... Since all the terribad's have filtered from QP into FP. That never used to happen in FP. Yeah I make 7-12 kills a match, do 2500dmg+ on average now.

That somehow means I'm hacking now. I've had it once a week for the last month, it's starting to annoy me a tad.


That is the problem with FP - that attitude right there. The same attitude I've been talking about for a few months. A bad player doesn't understand why LRM mechs were destroyed in seconds, don't understand that standing still in-front of 4 mechs means you will instantly die.

That stuff, generally, doesn't happen in the depths of the QP tiers. Yet those people suddenly come into a much more serious mode and it's everyone else's fault?

Pfft.

Hackusation, the best compliment you can get (unless you really are hacking and headshotting like 3-5+ mechs a match )

MischiefSC, on 03 January 2017 - 11:30 AM, said:

So people who intentionally refuse to improve or intentionally gimp themselves and screw their team are who the game should cater too?

That's so feeble, holds the very nature of success and accomplishment in contempt, so utterly without merit I've got to think you're trolling.

So because people who are bad at something that are more common than people who are good at something then being good at something makes you the problem?

Great plan! We focus on supporting the people who lose, don't want to improve and don't care about the team in literally the most team-oriented part of the game!

The concept of "try to get better" is fundamental to anything an everything. To glorify embracing being a failure and not trying to improve is one of the saddest game development idea I've seen.

Someone wants to derp then derp away. Go nuts, have fun. To say however that someone going full derp deserves respect or even consideration in an environment like FW where their derping screws everyone they play with, that's not going to happen.

Still slapping my forehead over the idea that being good at the game is the problem and that the real solution is eliminating standards and celebrating being bad at the game.

Isn't that the liberal mindset, let's celebrate mediocrity, and slap down anyone that dare rises?

Edited by Vxheous Kerensky, 03 January 2017 - 05:33 PM.

[MischiefSC]

Vxheous Kerensky, on 03 January 2017 - 05:30 PM, said:

Hackusation, the best compliment you can get (unless you really are hacking and headshotting like 3-5+ mechs a match )




Isn't that the liberal mindset, let's celebrate mediocrity, and slap down anyone that dare rises?

I dunno. I'm a pretty liberal guy. Let people make their own decisions, try to help people when you can, recognize some things (military, education, health care) shouldn't be run at a profit but with a focus on the public good, etc.

This isn't a liberal/conservative thing. Just straight narcissism. It's not even about mediocrity, it's about "I want to win no matter what and I want rewarded regardless".

That's a sort of selfish that crosses all lines.

[justcallme A S H]

Cox Devalis, on 03 January 2017 - 05:20 PM, said:

I will like this picture wherever it appears.

lol.

As long as Kinetix doesn't take it off his IMGUR account, the world will be safe.

Vxheous Kerensky, on 03 January 2017 - 05:30 PM, said:

Hackusation, the best compliment you can get (unless you really are hacking and headshotting like 3-5+ mechs a match )

After 12 months I finally got my 10th headshot about a week ago. And I aim for them whenever I can but clearly miss more often than I nail it. I mean even on a shutdown mech, I still bloody miss.

So by that rate, if I ever wanna get to the next achievement, I will indeed - need hacks.

Edited by justcallme A S H, 03 January 2017 - 05:45 PM.

[Reza Malin]

What people need to remember here, is that some of you live for this game. I bet a good number on this thread only play MWO. They love BT or some other shite, and they think this game belongs to them. Further to this a lot of the units are just to rigid. Boot camps, training days, play schedules, rank structures, people saying "aff" and "neg" over the voice chat. Its too much for some people. Some dudes just want to jump on and play, with minimal hassle.

Sadly, while this all sounds great for some BT/MWO enthusiasts it isn't the case for a great many people. Its been out a long time so will be seen as an "old game" for a lot, and so therefore will be taken less seriously. It is also on steam, which means it is far more accessible to the average player, who really doesn't give a toss what your PSR is, what his PSR is, or about what the latest meta is.

This is what you have to compete with. Unlike many here, i don't see the PUG's as potatoes, terribads, or noobs, or anything else like that. That is hipster student talk trying to impress his pals on the forum in all honesty. It doesn't help in any way, and makes the people who use these labels look like massive cockholsters.

If i play with a player who is bad, i know he is bad. I don't know that until i play with him or against him. Lately i have seen some good PUG players. What they lack is coordination, mech knowledge, and how the FP game mode works and how to win through better attrition rate. A game mode which is pretty unforgiving in that if you don't know what you should be doing for the whole game, you can easily contribute to a loss for your team.

This doesn't make them stupid, it makes them less experienced. What these newer or lower skilled players really need is more education on how to play what on first impressions appears to be a simple game of TDM, which is quite the opposite in reality. This alludes to what Scar has said and why he is making a tutorial, but unless PGI does so, and does even more than that to bring less experienced players into the fold successfully and close the skill gaps, then the FP mode is done.

While a lot of people here see the forums as second nature, many others don't. This is the same across all video games, not just MWO. Only the most dedicated pilots will use reddit and the forums regularly, so solely relying on people coming here to look up knowledge is not realistic. Same goes for some of the hidden mechanics such as ghost heat and damage spread that still is not clearly explained within the game itself.

In a lot of ways its a very convoluted game, with an even more convoluted FP mode as a result. I wouldn't change it for the world, but its just not very friendly for players that haven't played MWO for a reasonable amount of time. Maybe they just need to rethink and change the way that FP works totally? Or add another mode completely to cater for units. I have no enlightenment to offer on how to do this, all i know is i can't see how they can make the current system work, when you have two groups of players on such different ends of the spectrum.

It doesn't help that a great many of the so called "units" i see around, have a terrible attitude towards PUGs, QP and anyone who isn't in the unit circlejerk. If people really want this game to work, they should help more, and make it a game environment that encourages people to stay and play against the adversity that is the learning curve.

Even when unit players are on the in game voice chat, to try and garner some coordination with PUG's, they talk to everyone like they are criminals. Its honestly embarassing. If i hadn't played this game for so long and was one of them, i would just go play something else, and i am deadly serious. i dread to think how many potential good players have been turned away from this game indefinitely over the past few weeks not just through being stomped, but being spoke to like a small child and referenced in the forums like a sub human if they do bother to venture here to increase their knowledge.

Either you are part of the problem or you are part of the solution. Simple. Leave the kiddy trash talk and name calling to the shite posts in general, and be labelled alongside the people that post them. If you believe yourself to be a serious player of MWO that cares for the future, talk like one. It goes much further than you would think.

Edited by Reza Malin, 03 January 2017 - 06:05 PM.

[MischiefSC]

Except you're mixing populations. All for helping new players. I want wants to add them to group from in match. We need a slew of tools to help new players, no question.

However the bulk of pugs in MWO and FP are not new players. Wish they were - that would mean there was a huge influx of new players that we don't have.

Most units have tried and regularly try to call drops on VOIP and are always looking for new players to help. That's not what's being discussed here. The bulk of pugs are not new - they've been playing for a couple of generations of FW, they don't want to group up or really change in any way.

There's an embarrassing number of players with a sub 0.5 w/l in FP who've got a ton of matches in FW 3, even CW2 or 1.

They are dedicated potatoes. It's rare for me to be in a drop someone doesn't try to call but it only takes 3 or 4 like that to tank the whole team.

There's some great pugs - hell, everyone pugs sometimes. However new players are people who *can* get developed up into good players and nobody disagrees we need better tools to help do that. However the sea of players who will drop 5-10 matches a night every night and win 1/10th of them? Who've had countless opportunities to pay attention to dropped callers, get help bringing good decks and ignore it all?

That's the potatoes.

[Nightbird]

The solution is a Players versus AI mode for people who want to stomp mechs but don't want to be stomped. I'm all for it, the game's learning curve is too high and we don't want beginners to quit after a few weeks of getting stomped.

[S C A R]

ironnightbird, on 03 January 2017 - 09:02 PM, said:

The solution is a Players versus AI mode for people who want to stomp mechs but don't want to be stomped. I'm all for it, the game's learning curve is too high and we don't want beginners to quit after a few weeks of getting stomped.

Finally Russ will be able to kill something and make this game great. I am really afraid what that scrab will do if he loses to AI...

[Rhoh]

As a beginner I agree with most everything the original post had to say.

my 2 cents is as follows.

#1 Join a house, Join a merc unit, Join a clan. How ever to play in the faction wars you must reach a certain rank w/ in your team of choice. Make it so we have to play 50 to 100 games or 50 million c bills worth of upgrades and mechs. IE force us to play and develop some mechs to play with. learn the game ect ect.

Case in point, my self. When I joined back up I was very excited about faction play. This is why I played the RPG in my teens. However after losing 10 games in a row and doing a total of 50 damage in all 10 games Its just not fun. After reading his post earlier today I realized I needed to go put my time in on free pay and "earn" my right to be apart of the war.

#2 I know that there is a small tonnage amount the IS has over clan mechs. However the Lore would be more fun. Yes clan is superior, that is what makes it interesting and yes IS loses for a while. However, the clan's fought with Honor and tried to win with as few Mechs as possible (this might be wrong, but I believe I remember this to be true.) If you can implement a system where we decide which map we want to play. I am sure you can implement a "banning" phase. Or a system for which the clan team bid's down the tonnage they can take onto the field. Their reward would be more "points/whatever". This would even it self out as a clan team lines up against some pugs, or a lesser known IS out fit, they could barter down. If they find themselves up against a better team they can barter for less.