60 replies to this topic

[Count Zero 74]

So Clans get only 240 tons now? And I get 265?

Very well done gentlemen, thx vry much

[Monkey Lover]

Now you can up one blackjack to a quickdraw and be OP killing every clan team without issue.

[BLOOD WOLF]

Count Zero 74, on 15 December 2016 - 08:02 PM, said:

So Clans get only 240 tons now? And I get 265?

Very well done gentlemen, thx vry much

yea, but when we lost to you, it damn for sure wasn't the tonnage that was the problem

[MechaBattler]

Yeah, lazy balancing for the win. Amirite, or am I right?

[Sjorpha]

BLOOD WOLF, on 15 December 2016 - 08:21 PM, said:

yea, but when we lost to you, it damn for sure wasn't the tonnage that was the problem

I have to agree on that

[ZaRyume Mukeiyu]

Welp, definitely can't stuff the dropdeck with 2 Kodiaks and 2 Mist Lynxes now. Derp derp.

[Levi Porphyrogenitus]

Make it 250 for Clans and 300 for IS and see what happens. That's about the same proportion as equal tonnage with a Binary against a Company.

[MischiefSC]

Levi Porphyrogenitus, on 15 December 2016 - 09:07 PM, said:

Make it 250 for Clans and 300 for IS and see what happens. That's about the same proportion as equal tonnage with a Binary against a Company.

I'll take a wild guess -

Teams will still beat pugs.

Most teams will still go Clans because the tech advantage trumps a small tonnage advantage and the tonnage increase for IS will increase the score/payout for playing Clans.

Pug v Pug match differences will not change by any measurable amount.

[ZaRyume Mukeiyu]

Just- no. I'll accept 275 max, but 300 will brutalize our lesser units. Even against Skittles, it would be a heck of a chore.

[Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood]

MischiefSC, on 15 December 2016 - 09:11 PM, said:

I'll take a wild guess -

Teams will still beat pugs.

Most teams will still go Clans because the tech advantage trumps a small tonnage advantage and the tonnage increase for IS will increase the score/payout for playing Clans.

Pug v Pug match differences will not change by any measurable amount.

A tech advantage as little as the current one won't trump having 50 extra tons of weight to work with, especially if you are a unit and coordinate to properly use that tonnage.

You're talking 3 Battlemasters and a Black Jack here or 4 Black Knights or Marauders running STD engines. The tanking will be insane. Not to mention Black Knight can push 50 point laser alphas with a mix of MPL and ML, carry a 330, move over 70kph, and tank for days all at once.

At some point tonnage advantages trump having some extra laser range. With 50 extra tons group vs group would be a stomp every time in the IS's favor if they play just above mediocre. PUG vs PUG will remain mostly unpredictable, though smart IS pugs will realize what they can bring to the party.

[Count Zero 74]

The IS puggies I've seen today couldn't win even with 500 tons

[Appogee]

Count Zero 74, on 15 December 2016 - 09:51 PM, said:

The IS puggies I've seen today couldn't win even with 500 tons

This is my belief also.

[Kmieciu]

Count Zero 74, on 15 December 2016 - 09:51 PM, said:

The IS puggies I've seen today couldn't win even with 500 tons

That weight advantage is supposed to influence merc units to switch sides.

The question is, would you switch your Ebon/Timber for a Battlemaster? Your SplatDog for a Black Knight? I say right now the top tier clan mech can match the performance of IS mechs 20 tonnes heavier.

[Count Zero 74]

Kmieciu, on 16 December 2016 - 01:15 AM, said:

That weight advantage is supposed to influence merc units to switch sides.

The question is, would you switch your Ebon/Timber for a Battlemaster? Your SplatDog for a Black Knight? I say right now the top tier clan mech can match the performance of IS mechs 20 tonnes heavier.

My 5SS says otherwise, sir

[Kmieciu]

Count Zero 74, on 16 December 2016 - 01:19 AM, said:

My 5SS says otherwise, sir

MPL 5SS only works in an organized group play, when all of your team pushes.
Skittles vs Skttles, clan mechs are easier to use. Stay back 600-800 meters and spam CLPL, CERLL and CERPPCs.

Staying at range and spamming energy weapons does not require much skill or coordination. It's instinctive. Anyone can do it.

Closing range in your 5SS requires coordination, map knowledge and guts. When half of your team refuses to push with you, you will lose even against a bunch of CERLL noobz.

And when you meet a coordinated Clan team, you will find that your MPLs are not a match against massed CSPLs and CSRMS.

I'm not even sure if a 5SS is able to win a 1v1 against a 9SPL Nova. How about a 4xSRM6+A Stormcrow with 6 flamers?

Edited by Kmieciu, 16 December 2016 - 01:38 AM.

[Count Zero 74]

Here's what 3 5SS can do skittles vs skittles:



any questions?

p.s.: want an example what 4 5SS can do?

Edited by Count Zero 74, 16 December 2016 - 01:43 AM.

[MischiefSC]

Dakota1000, on 15 December 2016 - 09:24 PM, said:

A tech advantage as little as the current one won't trump having 50 extra tons of weight to work with, especially if you are a unit and coordinate to properly use that tonnage.

You're talking 3 Battlemasters and a Black Jack here or 4 Black Knights or Marauders running STD engines. The tanking will be insane. Not to mention Black Knight can push 50 point laser alphas with a mix of MPL and ML, carry a 330, move over 70kph, and tank for days all at once.

At some point tonnage advantages trump having some extra laser range. With 50 extra tons group vs group would be a stomp every time in the IS's favor if they play just above mediocre. PUG vs PUG will remain mostly unpredictable, though smart IS pugs will realize what they can bring to the party.

Only if you all agree to only bring brawling weapons. 3 EBJs and a Jen IIC vs 3 Marauders and a Blackjack? Or a KDK 3 and 3 HBK IICs? All faster than everything but the BJ you listed and as such able to control the range of engagement. What you'd see would be ERLL GHRs, WHRs and 5xLPL BLRs and the like.

Many of the good Clan teams will have half of you dead before you're at 300m, or at least badly chewed. Even the brawling ones, say KCom, will have chewed off way more than my tonnage advantage in armor/structure before I'm in an effective trading range.

However notice how 90% of the units are in Clans? The only way that would be relevant would be if half the units, the top tier units, move to IS - and why would they? To play a bunch of bigger, slower mechs? Which, in turn, usually results in surrendering control of the map/positioning?

Why do that when they can stay Clans and farm the 90% pugs and get a huge buff in cbills.

In pug v pug, again, that's not going to help. Because CXL always works and 10 tons extra per mech only helps if you're using it to get actually better mechs to use. It would also mean those pugs have to buy and master more mechs.

It's certainly possible to push tonnage up enough that pugs will be able to carry the difference more often or bribe units to play inferior tech to play with more tonnage - with the caveat that the difference between those two will be significant and the bribe involved won't be cheap.

Or, crazy I know, why not just balance the tech? Why this fascination with wanting to keep one side OP and get the other side suckered into still playing the inferior tech? Why not just.... balance the tech?

[Kmieciu]

PGI needs to balance the tech.
Clan XL, Endo and Ferro are all strictly better than IS equivalents.
Some say this is somehow balanced by the inability to change them on clan omnimechs. But once we got clan battlemechs, this argument went straight out the window. We now have 6 mechs with fully customizable clan tech. Soon, we will start getting IS omnimechs. The fact that some components are locked is not an argument against balancing clan and is tech.

[Positive Mental Attitude]

ZRMV, on 15 December 2016 - 08:55 PM, said:

Welp, definitely can't stuff the dropdeck with 2 Kodiaks and 2 Mist Lynxes now. Derp derp.

You think thats a good deck?

[xX PUG Xx]

Kmieciu, on 16 December 2016 - 01:36 AM, said:

I'm not even sure if a 5SS is able to win a 1v1 against a 9SPL Nova. How about a 4xSRM6+A Stormcrow with 6 flamers?

You answered your own question: to paraphrase slightly "any "noob" (I hate that term BTW) can stay at range and spam energy weapons" IS MPL outranges Clan SPL and has greater pinpoint damage than CSRM. So if you have the "guts" and "map knowledge" to get close to an enemy that outranges you, then you should be able to leg and kill either a SPL Nova or SplatCrow before it gets into optimal range.

There is counters to virtually every build, strategy, tactic and weapon in this game. The trick is recognising what your facing, adapting to counter it or in other words turn it's weakness to your advantage and recognise your own weakness to mitigate what your opponent can do to you. The number one faulty component in a failed strategy sits between the keyboard and the chair you are in, if it functions properly many great things can happen.......

Or you can just laugh hysterically as your 'Mech us torn apart while chuckling "Mistakes were made", like I do

Edited by xX PUG Xx, 16 December 2016 - 11:22 AM.