77 replies to this topic

[Snazzy Dragon]

Tarogato, on 18 December 2016 - 11:54 AM, said:

It isn't until you see a graph like that you ACTUALLY realize how much better clan mechs are. I mean, even within 400m clan mechs are going to have larger alpha damage than IS anyway, so out-brawling a clan mech is a moot point..

Yet when we had superquirked IS mechs that COULD compete, everyone called them too strong, even some IS loyalists. :/

EDIT: try outbrawling a scorch with 4 srm4/6 + double lb20s in an IS mech, see what happens

Edited by Snazzy Dragon, 18 December 2016 - 08:04 PM.

[Y E O N N E]

Make BJ-1X Great Again!

[Mystere]

StaggerCheck, on 18 December 2016 - 09:55 AM, said:

I've long thought they should make the weapon ranges identical between Clan and Inner Sphere if there is an equivalent weapon to match it against. The Clans already get tonnage and critical location savings, no need to compound the difference with range advantages, as well. Sure, I know current weapon ranges are lore based, but c'mon... enough already with this stupid imbalance.

Then I suggest you and everyone else demand that PGI make all Mechs, weapons, and equipment 100% identical to each other and just "differentiate" between them via different skins, visual, and sound effects. There, 100% balance achieved. Lore is not important anyway in what was billed as "A BattleTech Game".

Edited by Mystere, 18 December 2016 - 08:11 PM.

[Mystere]

Antares102, on 18 December 2016 - 10:09 AM, said:

Stop blaming everything on the good damn clan tech.

Do you actually think people will admit to their own failures rather than bogeymen, in a video game no less? Heck, people do not even do that in real life.

[El Bandito]

Dakota1000, on 18 December 2016 - 11:42 AM, said:

Oh yeah, I was with you in that match.

The IS side coordinated well actually if you were really looking at what was going on, perfectly in fact. Each wave they ran in and barely even fired at us at all, they used their tonnage advantage to tank their way to the gens and damage them each wave. On the last wave, after they had nearly destroyed the last gen, they sent in lights through one gate to distract half the team then rushed through the center gate (sulfurous rift for people who weren't there) and used the last of their heavies to take out omega quickly.

Our overconfidence and expectation that everyone else already knew what was going on led us to a loss that round. We were outplayed and the IS team kept their poker face up the whole time.

The underlined part sums it up. We could have set up firing lines at F3 and E3 to block them from having easy access to turrets and gens but nobody said anything, and everyone was spread out. Which meant each wave the opponents dealt unacceptable amount of damage to structures. The last wave was pretty much unavoidable anyway since we lost too many gens and the last one was low. There was only my Hellbringer and the Timbie body blocking the last gen and it wasn't enough.

[Ultimax]

FupDup, on 18 December 2016 - 10:10 AM, said:

It's almost as if tonnage limits are a bandaid that don't fix underlying problems.

It's hysterical man.

They had balance at such a good point, then they do what they do and lasers are starting to rise to top of the meta, dakka is almost dead and too risky, clans stomping IS so IS gets more tonnage in FP, lights beyond a small select few are obsolete.

They either do this on purpose, or they don't learn from their mistakes. I'm not sure which is worse.

Edited by Ultimax, 18 December 2016 - 09:49 PM.

[Y E O N N E]

Reset Jan 2016.

[Snowbluff]

Tarogato, on 18 December 2016 - 07:23 PM, said:

Correct, but that extra spash damage is part of the reason why cERPPC is the meta right now, and even the most quirked Innersphere ERPPCs aren't used at all right now in high level competitive play.

Plus, can you really pretend that laservomit doesn't have "splash" damage? Even the best player in the game can't always consistently pinpoint a single component against a moving, twisting mech.

I do agree that laser spread, but that last 10 damage on the PPFLD is, very specifically, not PPFLD.

Now, my real question is "if 5 ERLL can't be used at the same time according to this chart, why do people equip them?" I mean, I own a banshee 3M, but I've never put 5 ERLL. I don't faction play either. Do people just NOT alpha or is the ghost heat too high?

I mean, I don't know how good of a comparison this is when only 3 of those lasers are firing. Even with clan weight reductions, that few number of lasers is well below that tonnage.

Edited by Snowbluff, 18 December 2016 - 10:26 PM.

[Y E O N N E]

They don't usually alpha, they fire them staggered over 1.75 seconds. You can alpha, though. At extreme range, you aren't being pushed, so as long as you have somebody to rotate with to keep pressure on you can take the heat on the chin to inflict maximum harm.

Worth pointing out that 3x cERLL fired together is worth about 4x isERLL in terms of damage and heat. The IS solution is better, which it should be since it's eight tons heavier and five slots larger.

[Snowbluff]

Yeonne Greene, on 18 December 2016 - 10:31 PM, said:

They don't usually alpha, they fire them staggered over 1.75 seconds. You can alpha, though. At extreme range, you aren't being pushed, so as long as you have somebody to rotate with to keep pressure on you can take the heat on the chin to inflict maximum harm.

Worth pointing out that 3x cERLL fired together is worth about 4x isERLL in terms of damage and heat. The IS solution is better, which it should be since it's eight tons heavier and five slots larger.

Yeah, the cERLL does leave a sour taste in my mouth. My second mech I mastered (after my Timbies) was the crab. I carried 4 ERLL on the laser sniper variant for a while, but after that cERLL feel kind of garbage. :l

[I_AM_ZUUL]

FupDup, on 18 December 2016 - 07:25 PM, said:

Lol again.

Lurms in general have serious problems in general with being reliant on the opponent making mistakes, and range modules don't even help them. LRMs almost never make it to their full listed range of 1000 meters. Getting past even 600 meters is rare since the missiles fly slowly enough that the red team can break LOS and thus break the lock, causing the missiles to miss.

Next thing you'll tell me is that LBX range modules are useful.

I EXPLICTLY stated that their optimun range was -600m.... and said that it was operator error that made them so ineffecutal, ie the idiots shooting them at 980m, thoughthe amount i see blowing up in mid air (Clan &IS) means that some morons cant even figure out to not shoot them at +1000. The "Teir 5 Range Module" was obviously a joke since the facetiousness inherent in the comment was self-evident.

[Navid A1]

Snazzy Dragon, on 18 December 2016 - 08:02 PM, said:

EDIT: try outbrawling a scorch with 4 srm4/6 + double lb20s in an IS mech, see what happens

You know where the problem is?

People try to out-brawl the hardcore brawlers, fail, and then complain.
Other people try to out-range the hardcore snipers, fail, and then complain.

Some rare people make the enemy fight at their own terms by well drop/build/deck coordination.


Some mech builds are known to be unbeatable in certain play-styles. So... maybe don't try to win over them at their own game?!

[Snowbluff]

Navid A1, on 18 December 2016 - 10:46 PM, said:

People try to out-brawl the hardcore brawlers, fail, and then complain.

I don't. I kill scorches all of the time. I carry 2 flamers, and it's funny as hell scorching the scorches.

[Y E O N N E]

Snowbluff, on 18 December 2016 - 10:36 PM, said:

Yeah, the cERLL does leave a sour taste in my mouth. My second mech I mastered (after my Timbies) was the crab. I carried 4 ERLL on the laser sniper variant for a while, but after that cERLL feel kind of garbage. :l

Unquirked, the isERLL actually deals less damage per second during its burn than the cERLL; singled up, the cERLL is actually slightly better. Marginally. However, when the IS mass them, it becomes difficult for a cERLL boat to match the output.

That said, the Clans get a light-weight ERPPC+Gauss combo across a large cross-section of 'Mechs, which is all you really need to combat heavies and assaults and most mediums at a distance. The ERLL is really only needed to manage the odd sniping Light (read: Spider), and even cERLL would be adequate for that.

All that being said, I wouldn't mind seeing the cERLL duration drop to 1.25 seconds as long as the isERLL gets dropped to 1.1 or 1.15 in compensation.

[Mcgral18]

Tarogato, on 18 December 2016 - 07:23 PM, said:

No, I specifically listed gauss 2PPC, which is 35 pinpoint.




Correct, but that extra spash damage is part of the reason why cERPPC is the meta right now, and even the most quirked Innersphere ERPPCs aren't used at all right now in high level competitive play.

Plus, can you really pretend that laservomit doesn't have "splash" damage? Even the best player in the game can't always consistently pinpoint a single component against a moving, twisting mech.

You're a Science man
Do you know if PPCs fired at a CT, with destroyed ST, what happens to the splash?
Into the void, or +1 damage to the CT?
An added 10% damage is always welcome

introductory info

Quote

The Clan ER-PPC will be spreading its damage across multiple components. As you may know, the Clan ER-PPC does 15 damage compared to the IS PPC doing 10. The extra 5 damage will be split to 2 adjacent components at 2.5 damage each. For example, if you hit a 'Mech with the Clan ER-PPC in the center torso, 10 damage will be applied to the center torso and 2.5 damage will arc to the left and right torso. If you hit a component that does not have an adjacent component, the 2.5 damage will dissipate into nothing. An example of this is if the Clan ER-PPC hits an arm, 10 points of damage will be applied to the arm and 2.5 damage to that side's torso. The other 2.5 damage will be negated so total damage done on the shot is 12.5. Now it is understood that this has been a requested feature for the IS PPC for a long time, but this mechanic was needed to help curb the sheer OP power of the Clan ER-PPC to help us keep Clan tech somewhat in-line with the IS tech already in the game. When Clans go live, the IS PPC will behave as it does now with no changes. We will continue to watch what is happening on the battlefield and will make adjustments as needed afterwards.

Yeonne Greene, on 18 December 2016 - 10:51 PM, said:

Unquirked, the isERLL actually deals less damage per second during its burn than the cERLL; singled up, the cERLL is actually slightly better. Marginally. However, when the IS mass them, it becomes difficult for a cERLL boat to match the output.

That said, the Clans get a light-weight ERPPC+Gauss combo across a large cross-section of 'Mechs, which is all you really need to combat heavies and assaults and most mediums at a distance. The ERLL is really only needed to manage the odd sniping Light (read: Spider), and even cERLL would be adequate for that.

All that being said, I wouldn't mind seeing the cERLL duration drop to 1.25 seconds as long as the isERLL gets dropped to 1.1 or 1.15 in compensation.

It may also be mount related

Not many heavy or Assault Clam mechs have high weapon mounts, to the BMs and Wubshees. SadCat is technically better than the BJ at it, but Arrow (with decent quirks, of course) seems to exceed it.

Alpha potential (22 VS 27 before GH, both being able to do +1 laser), quirk, or mount related?

[Johnny Z]

Mystere, on 18 December 2016 - 08:15 PM, said:

Do you actually think people will admit to their own failures rather than bogeymen, in a video game no less? Heck, people do not even do that in real life.

Ya really, don't take away any self respect that Clan players have remaining after they chose easy mode.

Edited by Johnny Z, 18 December 2016 - 11:22 PM.

[Y E O N N E]

Mcgral18, on 18 December 2016 - 11:16 PM, said:

It may also be mount related

Not many heavy or Assault Clam mechs have high weapon mounts, to the BMs and Wubshees. SadCat is technically better than the BJ at it, but Arrow (with decent quirks, of course) seems to exceed it.

Alpha potential (22 VS 27 before GH, both being able to do +1 laser), quirk, or mount related?

True. That being said, the energy Kodiaks are not awful at it; their mounts are still pretty high, even if not Battlemaster high. The Arrow relying on quirks to be better at a role it really shouldn't be quirked to perform (dafuq is an MG BJ doing sniping things) really just speaks to the sad state of affairs.

[Novakaine]

[Snowbluff]

Yeonne Greene, on 18 December 2016 - 10:51 PM, said:

All that being said, I wouldn't mind seeing the cERLL duration drop to 1.25 seconds as long as the isERLL gets dropped to 1.1 or 1.15 in compensation.

I want the ERLL, LL, and cERLL all dropped in duration to make them more competitve. Right now it feels like LPL or PPC or GTFO for large class energy weapons :l

[Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood]

El Bandito, on 18 December 2016 - 08:27 PM, said:

The underlined part sums it up. We could have set up firing lines at F3 and E3 to block them from having easy access to turrets and gens but nobody said anything, and everyone was spread out. Which meant each wave the opponents dealt unacceptable amount of damage to structures. The last wave was pretty much unavoidable anyway since we lost too many gens and the last one was low. There was only my Hellbringer and the Timbie body blocking the last gen and it wasn't enough.

We need more losses like this on the clan side to make us remember to try.