6 replies to this topic

[The6thMessenger]

Many of us prefer to turn quickly, and so we unlock our arms frequently over the entire duration of the game, as it provides better ability in turning, and so easier to spread incoming damage across the body.

However, with that sensitivity, steady aim is hurt, the convergence with the arm weapons to the torso weapons is hurt.

I propose a "hold to lock" feature, should you chose to ALWAYS unlock your arms, holding this button will lock your arms at the entire duration of the button press. It works as a reverse version of what we currently have, holding the L-Shift by default to only temporarily unlock your arms.

This will help would-be snipers to have better aim, yet still wants to ALWAYS unlock the arms.

[Arugela]

You can technically do this by having your arms unlocked by default in the settings and then using L-shift to lock them on Press when you wish to lock them. It only works if arms are unlocked by default though. Also makes it so you don't have to push Lshift+Lctrl to do certain maneuvers. Only Lctrl.

What is missing is the ability to use only Lctrl to look to the side of the cockpit and aim at a target while arms are default lock on. this with one button instead of two which makes it impossible to do side aiming with mouse keyboard and arm locks on by default.

Edited by Arugela, 20 December 2016 - 01:41 AM.

[The Basilisk]

Aru....god of the trollbuilds....and....I like his proposal.. ...ok who are you and what have you done to Aru

@The6thMessenger: I don't have a clue where this rumor comes from that unlocked arms somehow improve the ability to turn or aim.
Thats just not the case.
Its outright wrong.
Your torso has a turn rate that is defined by the mechs movement model, Mechs modifiers and engine rating.
Tho only thing moving/angling faster than your torso are your arms and its weapons.

What makes the assertion dangerous that unlocked arms would somehow be uberpro or helpfull in twisting is the simple fact that your armweapons desync with your torso weapons and even snap back a little towards torso ret if you stop turning before torso and arms have realigned.

I noticed this during many many newby training session where some new player told me, hey XYZ in game told me "hurdur noob has armlocks doesn't know how to aim gud"

What will happen is simply this: The new player will shoot his torso weapons right and his arm weapons left from the enemy or vice versa.

The only two things where arm unlock is objectively helpfull is aiming beyond torso horizontal/vertical movement and microtwisting with eggshape torso mechs because the yoyo effect of the ret is desirable within smal angles to ensure max orso turn speed from the start.

Edited by The Basilisk, 20 December 2016 - 02:12 AM.

[The6thMessenger]

The Basilisk, on 20 December 2016 - 01:49 AM, said:

@The6thMessenger: I don't have a clue where this rumor comes from that unlocked arms somehow improve the ability to turn or aim.
Thats just not the case.
Its outright wrong.
Your torso has a turn rate that is defined by the mechs movement model, Mechs modifiers and engine rating.
Tho only thing moving/angling faster than your torso are your arms and its weapons.

No, you are just flat out wrong, at least at the improving the ability part. Here is proof.

Tarogato, on 19 December 2016 - 12:39 PM, said:

PS: Watch the map.

Aiming though is bad, but it's not exactly an issue close range. Likewise, less amount of mouse swipe would be a boon in times you need to torso twist and spread damage.

The Basilisk, on 20 December 2016 - 01:49 AM, said:

What makes the assertion dangerous that unlocked arms would somehow be uberpro or helpfull in twisting is the simple fact that your armweapons desync with your torso weapons and even snap back a little towards torso ret if you stop turning before torso and arms have realigned.

Not all builds have weapons both arm and torso. HBK-IIC-B is one example. Likewise LRMs on torso don't rely on torso reticle, just the locks, that can be achieved easier with unlocked arms.

Brawler builds need more torso twist since they are usually at the front lines, and would need to spread damage.

The Basilisk, on 20 December 2016 - 01:49 AM, said:

I noticed this during many many newby training session where some new player told me, hey XYZ in game told me "hurdur noob has armlocks doesn't know how to aim gud"

What will happen is simply this: The new player will shoot his torso weapons right and his arm weapons left from the enemy or vice versa.

The only two things where arm unlock is objectively helpfull is aiming beyond torso horizontal/vertical movement and microtwisting with eggshape torso mechs because the yoyo effect of the ret is desirable within smal angles to ensure max orso turn speed from the start.

I'm sorry, they are actually right somewhat. Although no, aiming is actually a lot less steady with arm unlocked. But being able to twist more easily with one mouse swipe, and flat out faster helps spreading damage around your mech, and so easier to survive.

And again not all builds have arm weapons, or torso weapons, they don't have to consider convergence all the time. You also don't have to shoot both arm weapons and torso weapons at the same time. You can just shoot which is which aligned to the target.

Edited by The6thMessenger, 20 December 2016 - 03:43 AM.

[The Basilisk]

The6thMessenger, on 20 December 2016 - 02:58 AM, said:

*stuff*

dude....if that would be true...its outright an exploit.

I do think the guy just forgot he unlocked the torso twist skill or maybe elite skills during left or right...(at least I hope this is the case)
Or maybe just a bug with the cicada.

Tested it with various mechs but this effect seems not to be universaly present....odd thing.
Now testing if this is the case if your mech is unskilled or if it is an effect caused by skilling the chassis.

Edited by The Basilisk, 20 December 2016 - 05:16 AM.

[The6thMessenger]

The Basilisk, on 20 December 2016 - 03:53 AM, said:

dude....if that would be true...its outright an exploit.

I do think the guy just forgot he unlocked the torso twist skill or maybe elite skills during left or right...(at least I hope this is the case)
Or maybe just a bug with the cicada.

Tested it with various mechs but this effect seems not to be universaly present....odd thing.
Now testing if this is the case if your mech is unskilled or if it is an effect caused by skilling the chassis.

Look, it's not just the improved turn speed. It's the ease of turning in the first place, torso-twisting-intensive playstyles like brawling, or certain mechs, it's easier to unlock arms and just wiggle around compared to having locked the arms. Which is the point. Whether the twisting part is faster is irrelevant, it's just ease of use.

[Arugela]

It might not be an improved turn speed but the fact that unlocked arms take longer to start dragging the mech. It's a delay because of the aiming reticule movement by the looks of it.

when locked the Reticule and body torso marker are being dragged together. hence less delay. When free standing the reticule for the arms moves first then drags the body. I don't think it's moving faster. I think it's just takes a second longer to start. Then at the end you see the body catching up. Though there could be dynamics with acceleration on the starting turn or something if present. Although I don't think that is the case with turning.

Though maybe there are things to make them even out. It may just be an illusion because of the way the movement is initiated. I bet the movement actual speed is identical. And you can always lock the arms temporarily when needed to fire with one button pretty easily. If not they just need a toggle in combat for lock/unlock arms taht activates the one in the options. Assuming there is not one in the keybinds that is just not given a keymapping by default. I noticed there are a bunch of things in there not on by default but usable.

The other part of the illusion is the body dragging. They are moving at the same speed but in one immage the body is lagging behind hence you are looking out the side window and it takes a second to see the body catch up fully. This could be good for defensive purposes(maybe). the other you see the center window following. this is because of the fact it is kept with the center of the aiming reticule. It's a delay affect on the different parts of the mech as it turns. The values should be the same turn rate from engines though.

I wonder if anything interesting can be use by combining arm lock and unlock. maybe some interesting ways to distribute damage or something else.... I wonder if one is safer to use when turning on target or away. Maybe if you drag the reticule then hit/hold arm lock it will snap faster then the enemy is expecting and let you get a shot off and then drag back to the next target. Or something similar to get temporarily faster turn rate.. Maybe fire arms then lock or wait and shoot body on delay then lock to pull away from target faster after the body fires..... I forget if lock while moving unlocked moves the body to the aiming reticule or the aiming reticule to the body.

If anything loose arms could be used to pull the arms on target then snap back to get less body coverage on the CT possibly... Maybe combine snap/lock after you get past the torso center again to stay to the side in some mechs... This assuming it pulls the body and not the reticule. I tested this once but I don't remember what it did.

I believe in that video the loose reticule on both get to target at the same speed. But the body is lagging behind only... Maybe not... does that mech have arms like the kodiak that are completely separate. Even if you don't use the articulations the mech still turns virtually the same if the arm lock is off. There is still a delay in turning. it appears the articulation is off or non existant in that mech like in my DireWolfUV. If you did that in the Kodiak or similar mech you would see the arms sights go first then to torso following. But if you lock it they move together and the screen stays centered. I need to get using that stuff down better so I can better defend in my kodiak... It would be nice if it had faster twist again.

Look at the nice long post I made again!! ><

Also the speed may look different in unlocked mode because the angle of the difference can vary the speed if I'm not mistaken. Where as being locked it may keep it more or less full speed turns. Thinking about it though, If one acts more like a joystick and the other like a pure mouse mode it could actually vary the speed also. The lock could remove this problem by simply making maximum speed right next to the center removing the radius of speed gains.

Edited by Arugela, 20 December 2016 - 08:07 PM.