5 replies to this topic

[Livaria]

The Problem:

One the biggest factors towards IS and Clan imbalance lies within the kinds of engines players are able to take on the battlefield. Clan XL Engines are just better right now, it's just fact.

The simplest solution for this is to make IS XL engines just as good as Clans. But that would make Standard engines completely pointless. So now we need to make sure that standard engines need to become better as well.

Issue #1: Clan XL engines are superior to IS XL Engines.

There is just very few other ways around it. Quirks can only do so much to balance the game until players are facing issues that cannot peacefully co-exist together. This is because we are currently in a situation whereas one side becomes objectively better than the other. This applies to Clan Tech or IS Quirks.

Issue #2: Standard Engines need to compete better with XL Engines

Standard Engines only have two important benefits; Critical Slots, and no Side torso penalty. These are both *very* good things, but they aren't enough to compete with XL engines. This is because tonnage and speed tends to matter more.

My Solutions:

You may feel free to explain your reasons or disagreeing or agreeing as much as you like. But I won't deny the fact that the game needs better engine balance. It is a pretty big issue when it comes to IS vs Clan balancing. There are several methods to approaching both of these goals, but I personally believe that the solutions that I'm going to present to you, may have some merit to them. Please be fair in your assessment.

Solution 1: IS and CLAN XL Engines have the same penalties;

I personally believe that the best approach to this issue is for IS XL Engines have the same penalty as Clan XL Engines.That means that IS will have a mech efficiency problem when a side torso is lost.

Solution #2: Standard engines have better maneuverability than XL Engines.

For Standard engines to compete there needs to be a better trade-off. Simply put; Standard Engines get more maneuverability than XL Engines. This means they benefit a mechs Acceleration, Deceleration, Turn Rate, and Torso Twist by simply equipping them.

For this bonus to matter a lot for pilots, it may also mean that XL Engines receive a de-buff towards maneuverability. They won't be able to hit and run, or torso twist nearly as good as the standard engines.

Edited by Livaria, 20 December 2016 - 09:38 PM.

[Tiantara]

- Yeap... same I wrote in few comments down.

I agree with same mechanic of IS XL and Clan XL but if loosing side torso of IS mech make them slower comparing to same damage of clan for 10\15\20% instead of instant death. Even if mech go at speed of 40kph it still better than death for armored weapon IS.

STD engine have already great benefits and I use them on Clan mech. Less space, no speed loss (!) after side torso damage, pretty good Zombie Builds (!!) for some mech which loose both side of torso during battle. They dont need any tweaks. It's way some players play and do - be slower but more sturdy. Noone place XL on IS mech which easy loose both side torso.
But some mech which can only be playable with XL get some chance to fight.

[Livaria]

Well, yeah, my point is that standard engines are good. But they aren't good enough, I think we can do more for them. Especially if we remove the IS XL death penalty, they will become less used than they are now.

Edited by Livaria, 20 December 2016 - 09:56 PM.

[Tiantara]

- I pilot mostly IS mech (From light to assault) and also have nearly 50% Clan mech (same class)... Nearly all IS mech I have - based on STD and few Clan - also have STD engine (HBK and Highlander for example). Because I need place for ammo and weapon and no need to loose speed. And they fine. Really. Bit slow but really sturdy as is. So that builds never be changed to XL. But some IS mech can bring speed and weapon only with XL engine and that mech become problem. Skilled pilot have no trouble to pilot them. Medium skill - have high chance to loose. Just player - easy target for any skilled Clan or IS pilot. When IS mech have battle with IS - that problem was not so big. Now, when we forced to fight against clan only - that need to change. IS tactic - push, defence and high armor. Even if mech without side torso with XL stops moving - it still can do great damage befor get completely killed. And I can accept that variant too. Why not? In that case some Teammates can cover disabled mech and use it as turret. If it moves with 40KPH - even better. many legged mech can kill enemy before death.

We just get 3 type of play. Slow and Zombie (Both STD), fast and slow if damaged (IS XL) and fast and bit slower if damaged (Clan XL). And thay can be used in different plays. First in ambush and within walls\corridors. Second for push and make enemy rush for them. Third to intercept and fight with first one.

Whole story about IS XL starts long time ago when we have no Clan mech. So - some IS pretend to play as "Clan". To balance "extreme" (more ammo, more heavy weapon) firepower they have chance to die from one good alpha shot in side torso. That was war Speed vs Armor. And for that case that ok. And until now when we have battle IS vs IS - also was good. You fast but you die fast. You slow - you die slow... But Clan change that - because they die slow and run fast. And "pseudo-Clan" IS with prehistoric mechanic of XL engine slowly become problem. We got armor boost, quirks and many other thing but that no help. Because even in Testing Ground everyone can study weak parts of IS mech and learn how to kill them fast.

Edited by Tiantara, 20 December 2016 - 10:24 PM.

[ArchSight]

I like adding more depth to the game by getting players to change their builds. This solution would cause player's to choose from making crit builds to kill XL engine mechs faster or choose to go for firepower only.

Here's my solution:

Could change both IS and Clan XL engines to die the same way but slower depending on what weapons are used.

How about after a side torso internal structure is destroyed it unlocks the ability to transfer critical damage received on the side torso XL engines slots too the center internal structure. It would bypass armor like a ammo explosion not protected by CASE but has a chance to be done multiple times from opposing weapons fire. CASE shouldn't protect the XL engines do to how big they are.

High critical chance weapons like machine guns, LBX's and some weapons that get increased critical chance from clan targeting computers would be capable of doing the critical damage. A difference of a high critical chance weapon and a low critical chance weapon would affect what players bring to kill a XL engine or non-XL engine mech resulting in more depth from increase use of different tech.

There can also be a difference in the amount of critical damage is transferred between the IS XL engine and Clan XL engine. The Clan XL engine does have less slots to hit so maybe the IS XL engine only transfers 90% of the critical damage too the center internal structure instead of 100%. The value of the amount of damage transferred could be tuned to be lower for both XL engines to make it slower to kill them or faster.

Standard engines wouldn't have to worry about crit damage due to it's only for XL engines to transfer damage to the center internal structure. Sense, it's based off of crit chance it's possible to avoid taking damage to the center internal structure when crits don't land on the XL engines side torso slots. The XL engine slots in the side torso's don't transfer crit damage to the center internal structure when the side torso is not destroyed. The damage can be tracked by the paper doll's color coded internal structures. One side torso destroyed, you have an XL engine, and you'll know why your center torso is taking internal structure damage when that destroyed side torso is getting hit.

The idea does make it take longer to die than the current IS XL engine death by side torso loss but varies because it depends on internal structure hit points of the mechs.

[Tiantara]

- ArchSight - that harder to implement because loosing side torso mean - loosign everything in it as well as structure, weapon, part of engine and so on. Hit in that part just make damage spread to CT (including armor) like damage to cripled leg put damage to side torso. Changing that more complex than just add same mechanic to IS XL but with greater speed loss. Also - changing in that for Clan mech make them weaker. IS have great guns to deliver in same spot high damage and Clans have more spread damage. Also LBX already have greater chance to crit any inner components... and as I see in real battle - pretty nice destroy any unarmored XL engine parts. Clan or IS.
So, just changing to same mechanic and adding greater loss of speed after loosing side torso can change game to better. As in QP as for FP as well.

Edited by Tiantara, 21 December 2016 - 05:16 PM.