26 replies to this topic

[Stone Wall]

Had commentary but the mic was muted, since this is my first game in awhile. I might start playing and posting more, especially when they remove the crutch tree/skill tree.

[El Bandito]

Why not 6xML? Very doable.

Also, IS Jenners will still retain their crutches, aka quirks.

Edited by El Bandito, 23 December 2016 - 06:59 AM.

[Bombast]

You know they're putting another 'crutch tree' in, right?

[Pyed]

Observations intended to be constructive:

At 0:41, you didn't take advantage of the opportunity to shoot an enemy assault in the back from a reasonably safe position. Why not?

By the flow of the battle, at 1:20 you should have realized instantly that there would likely be enemies low and to the right.
Then jumpjetting higher than necessary to get your shot off while trying to run away from their fire was bad.
Then you simply ran away from the fight more than necessary, back turned, and didn't follow how the enemies were moving to plan your next move.

At 1:35 there was a lone cored shadowcat with long range weapons. You had the opportunity to close and finish him but took too long going wide and couldn't help your teammate or your score.

On the last Jenner who had no teammates left and only long range weapons, and you were still very fresh, you went wide around rather than straight at him and missed the chance to improve your score.

Tier4 has a lot of lurms.

[Darian DelFord]

El Bandito, on 23 December 2016 - 06:56 AM, said:

Why not 6xML? Very doable.

Also, IS Jenners will still retain their crutches, aka quirks.

They need bigger ones ;p

[JediPanther]

Jenny is a good fighting mech. I'm hoping she keeps the acceleration and deceleration sixty percent quirks. Using the jump jets a lot lets you get position over enemy and some times its just fun to max them out and be a semi flying mech.

[Y E O N N E]

The Jenner F is actually quite agile. It's not horrible, but it's not great either. Kind of like every Light in the game, though perhaps with a slight bias leaning toward horrible rather than the slight bias the Locust and Arctic Cheetah have toward great.

[adamts01]

JediPanther, on 23 December 2016 - 10:04 AM, said:

Jenny is a good fighting mech. I'm hoping she keeps the acceleration and deceleration sixty percent quirks. Using the jump jets a lot lets you get position over enemy and some times its just fun to max them out and be a semi flying mech.

If every light mech needs such outrageous mobility quirks, there's a problem with the system. This is no different than PPCs being **** unless on a quirked mech.

[dario03]

adamts01, on 23 December 2016 - 10:21 AM, said:

If every light mech needs such outrageous mobility quirks, there's a problem with the system. This is no different than PPCs being **** unless on a quirked mech.

Lights would probably always need a bit of a boost but they could do a few things to lessen the gap.

-Remove the 40kph legged speed limit. No reason for a 80kph assault and a 170kph light to both drop to 40kph when the light is the one that is far more likely to be legged and is the one that needs the speed. Or hey, just have every mech die when legged, maybe then assaults will get legged and not skip leg day. I vote remove the speed limit but I'm fine either way. Or heck, how about if you get legged in an assault you lose half speed, half your weapons and all your armor falls off Lights lose their benefit, why shouldn't the bigger classes?
But really, just remove that speed limit.

-Better jump jets. Helpful for getting out of tough spots and jumping the enemy without throwing a lot of weight and crits to the jump jets.

-Reduce the huge agility quirks (full quirk rebalance really) on the bigger mechs and put back some agility in the skill tree or better yet base stats. Used to be actually kind of hard to track a lot of lights in assaults and heavies. Well if they popped up close and didn't stay to long, now only a few like the locust are like that.

-Undo the rescale. Probably not going to happen, and I'm fine with it but they need to do some of these other things or the quirks to make up for it.

-Rebalancing streaks to not be more balanced against all classes and not an anti-light weapon would help too.

Edited by dario03, 23 December 2016 - 01:55 PM.

[JediPanther]

adamts01, on 23 December 2016 - 10:21 AM, said:

If every light mech needs such outrageous mobility quirks, there's a problem with the system. This is no different than PPCs being **** unless on a quirked mech.

The real problem with the system is pgi can't balance for **** and when they try it takes months. Kodiack being the newest op fest. Atlas vs kdk I'll take the kdk every time or the is jenner f. Clans have more of every thing compared to is that is have to give up a lot of weapons or big ac 20s for speed or go slower with more guns. If every is mech was hard locked to match clan speed we'd still see the weapon balance issues.

They wouldn't need quirks if they had the tech level weapons to compete with clans. Remember clans first coming out and the is virtually wiped out in matches?

Also a lot of lights don't have decent or well thought out quirks. Some lights absolutely need quirks to be use-able in the game. Anything can pretty much one shot a locust or urbie. The clans top light has been the ach since it was released. It was their only mech fast enough to complete with is until the 2c jenner. The ach is still number one light because if its ecm.

Compare clan lights vs is lights for your self. Try playing them if you really want to know how they work then imagine them quirk less then decide if you'd really want to play that quirk less mech or say **** it and go up to the heavier mechs. Lights are already the least played mech class in game. The only time you see them above six percent are when there is a light focused event or the once every two and a half years new light mech added to the game. Would you wait two and a half years for a new mech? More importantly would you buy it with real money or wait half a year for cbill-ing them?

Check the quirks list and decide is,clan or neither have the advantage just from quirks:
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...ght_innersphere or http://mwo.smurfy-ne...irks_light_clan

I'm glad all quirks except the "baseline" quirks are being removed soon. All the nonsense of urber quirks make mexh x better than y will go down drastically. Then it will just be the complaints of boating and weapon types.

[Y E O N N E]

Nerfing agility on certain heavies would make them unplayable.

Just something to keep in mind.

[dario03]

Yeonne Greene, on 23 December 2016 - 10:51 AM, said:

Nerfing agility on certain heavies would make them unplayable.

Just something to keep in mind.

Which ones?

Also if the average of heavy mobility went down (or again a full rebalance was done) that might not be the case for the ones you are thinking of.

[Y E O N N E]

dario03, on 23 December 2016 - 11:00 AM, said:

Which ones?

Also if the average of heavy mobility went down (or again a full rebalance was done) that might not be the case for the ones you are thinking of.

Any "face-forward" type 'Mech, for starters, i.e. the Marauder. With a STD, it's dependent on the agility to overcome the inherent slowness. With an XL, it's dependent on the agility to keep the XL flank out of harm's way. Similar apples to the Catapult, Dragon, Linebacker, Ebon Jaguar, Rifleman, others I'm sure I have missed.

It would remain an issue because it's a problem with firepower, not relative agility. If you can't move out of the way, rotate, and twist fast enough, the volleys getting tossed around rip off components in the blink of an eye.

[dario03]

Yeonne Greene, on 23 December 2016 - 11:39 AM, said:

Any "face-forward" type 'Mech, for starters, i.e. the Marauder. With a STD, it's dependent on the agility to overcome the inherent slowness. With an XL, it's dependent on the agility to keep the XL flank out of harm's way. Similar apples to the Catapult, Dragon, Linebacker, Ebon Jaguar, Rifleman, others I'm sure I have missed.

It would remain an issue because it's a problem with firepower, not relative agility. If you can't move out of the way, rotate, and twist fast enough, the volleys getting tossed around rip off components in the blink of an eye.

Well if average heavy and assault mobility was lower then those mechs wouldn't be getting hit by huge alphas as often. Lower mobility lowers your ability to spread damage but it also lowers the ability to quickly put damage out. I'm pretty sure heavies and assaults would still be fine if the average mobility went down a bit. And I'm talking quirked movement which wouldn't even effect some of those mechs.
This would help lights though because as of right now it is just to easy for a lot of bigger mechs to easily track lights and thus negate the one weakness they are supposed to have to lights. And mechs should have a weakness.

[Dryderian]

Could not resist .

[Y E O N N E]

dario03, on 23 December 2016 - 12:59 PM, said:

Well if average heavy and assault mobility was lower then those mechs wouldn't be getting hit by huge alphas as often. Lower mobility lowers your ability to spread damage but it also lowers the ability to quickly put damage out. I'm pretty sure heavies and assaults would still be fine if the average mobility went down a bit. And I'm talking quirked movement which wouldn't even effect some of those mechs.

The only result you will get is that 'Mechs with more inherent firepower capabilities will be even stronger against their similarly-weighted kin. The kind of 'Mechs that dominate the battlefield already know where the enemy is and don't have to do much target re-acquisition when they expose to shoot. Either that, or they are dakka stare-down 'Mechs and don't twist too much while engaged anyway, using the brute force method of sheer output to beat down the target before they receive much in return.

I mean, a dakka Marauder is already not much of a challenge for a Locust to take down. If you are being a derp and running around with SPL, staying exposed to whittle it down in one short duel in the game's squishiest 'Mech, that's on you, but the Medium laser version will cut it up like it was nothing using intelligent poking. That's the kind of 'Mech you want to nerf, the one that is under-gunned compared to its 70 ton Warhammer and 60 ton Rifleman siblings, to say nothing of its Clan counterparts, and relies on its agility to get the firepower it does have to act sooner than theirs. Even those 70 and 60 tonners rely entirely on their agility to make those XLs survivable long enough to do work, otherwise simple laser vomit blows it right out.

Quote

This would help lights though because as of right now it is just to easy for a lot of bigger mechs to easily track lights and thus negate the one weakness they are supposed to have to lights. And mechs should have a weakness.

The agility on a 'Mech like the Locust is actually fine. Like, have you played the LCT-3S recently? It is so agile that it practically turns in place while running full-tilt, and that is far and away more agile than anything else in the game, period. Like, I can't stress enough how huge of a gap it has over anything short of a Shadow Cat engaging MASC in terms of agility, and even then it's still more agile. It is disgustingly agile. Like, it is so agile that it would be able to stay on the tail of any 'Mech in the game if it weren't for the fact that the target 'Mech has a footprint larger than the circumference of the Locust's turning circle.. If it weren't for the gross armor and ammo constraints, the forums would have been on fire over that 'Mech a long time ago.

While not-Locusts are not agile enough and could use a buff to have similar agility after adjusting for armor, the issue is not agility. The Locust [1E] remains meh because Medium Lasers burn for 0.08 seconds too long, deal 1 point too much heat, and have 0.25-0.5 seconds too many on the cool-down timer.

[dario03]

Yeonne Greene, on 23 December 2016 - 01:35 PM, said:

The only result you will get is that 'Mechs with more inherent firepower capabilities will be even stronger against their similarly-weighted kin. The kind of 'Mechs that dominate the battlefield already know where the enemy is and don't have to do much target re-acquisition when they expose to shoot. Either that, or they are dakka stare-down 'Mechs and don't twist too much while engaged anyway, using the brute force method of sheer output to beat down the target before they receive much in return.

I mean, a dakka Marauder is already not much of a challenge for a Locust to take down. If you are being a derp and running around with SPL, staying exposed to whittle it down in one short duel in the game's squishiest 'Mech, that's on you, but the Medium laser version will cut it up like it was nothing using intelligent poking. That's the kind of 'Mech you want to nerf, the one that is under-gunned compared to its 70 ton Warhammer and 60 ton Rifleman siblings, to say nothing of its Clan counterparts, and relies on its agility to get the firepower it does have to act sooner than theirs. Even those 70 and 60 tonners rely entirely on their agility to make those XLs survivable long enough to do work, otherwise simple laser vomit blows it right out.



The agility on a 'Mech like the Locust is actually fine. Like, have you played the LCT-3S recently? It is so agile that it practically turns in place while running full-tilt, and that is far and away more agile than anything else in the game, period. Like, I can't stress enough how huge of a gap it has over anything short of a Shadow Cat engaging MASC in terms of agility, and even then it's still more agile. It is disgustingly agile. Like, it is so agile that it would be able to stay on the tail of any 'Mech in the game if it weren't for the fact that the target 'Mech has a footprint larger than the circumference of the Locust's turning circle.. If it weren't for the gross armor and ammo constraints, the forums would have been on fire over that 'Mech a long time ago.

While not-Locusts are not agile enough and could use a buff to have similar agility after adjusting for armor, the issue is not agility. The Locust [1E] remains meh because Medium Lasers burn for 0.08 seconds too long, deal 1 point too much heat, and have 0.25-0.5 seconds too many on the cool-down timer.

Maybe i should of worded the first post different. I didnt mean 100% remove the quirks. I meant remove the super big ones and replace. In other words lower them but more so rebalance all quirks. Lower the average but the ones that need it more can retain more. Balance the weight class againsts itself and others.
Also i already said the locust was ok in that department. Its the other lights that are not.
And a bunch did complain about the locust and still do. Probably why it getting a tiny bit smaller caused it to lose almost half its quirks but yet mechs like the firestarter got much bigger but got no quirks added.

[Y E O N N E]

dario03, on 23 December 2016 - 01:54 PM, said:

Maybe i should of worded the first post different. I didnt mean 100% remove the quirks. I meant remove the super big ones and replace. In other words lower them but more so rebalance all quirks. Lower the average but the ones that need it more can retain more. Balance the weight class againsts itself and others.
Also i already said the locust was ok in that department. Its the other lights that are not.
And a bunch did complain about the locust and still do. Probably why it getting a tiny bit smaller caused it to lose almost half its quirks but yet mechs like the firestarter got much bigger but got no quirks added.

Well, who has the super big agility quirks that you consider a problem?

[dario03]

Yeonne Greene, on 23 December 2016 - 02:45 PM, said:

Well, who has the super big agility quirks that you consider a problem?

A lot of them. There are quite a bit of heavies that have far more agility quirks than lights. Some have big bonuses in all agility catagories. Quirks up to 70% I think those could be toned down or moved to different quirks. Basically nerf the heavies all around with a emphasis on agility. Or buff the lights.

[Y E O N N E]

dario03, on 23 December 2016 - 03:59 PM, said:

A lot of them. There are quite a bit of heavies that have far more agility quirks than lights. Some have big bonuses in all agility catagories. Quirks up to 70% I think those could be toned down or moved to different quirks. Basically nerf the heavies all around with a emphasis on agility. Or buff the lights.

I want specific chassis. I want to know which ones you think are too agile so I can have a frame of reference for their place in the whole game.

Like, the Marauder is 15%, and that's the reduced version. It was, IMHO, a much better 'Mech back when it was smaller and had 25% turn and 35% yaw; I can manage it with an XL today, but it's more work now than it was then and it's leaning harder on the structure buffs than it used to.